Not By Works

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OIC1965

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eternally-gratefull said:
And I asked you to tell me if it was abrahams own righteousness or davids and Samuelson righteousness which God spoke of and you refused to answer,

how can you expect to,prove your point when you refuse to answer who’s righteousness it was?
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I’d like to hear his answer on this
 
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OIC1965

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eternally-gratefull said:
He won’t answer you either I see.

then he gets upset when we keep pushing him to answer.

no one is in heaven yet, Peter is not in heaven yet, when I die, I will go to paradise and meet Abraham, Daniel, david and my parents and grandparents as we all await the ressurection

why he can’t grasp that is beyond me
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I have a different view on that eschatological issue, but I don’t want to detract. We agree fully with in our views on justification.
 
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Guojing

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eternally-gratefull said:
And I asked you to tell me if it was abrahams own righteousness or davids and Samuelson righteousness which God spoke of and you refused to answer,

how can you expect to,prove your point when you refuse to answer who’s righteousness it was?
Click to expand...
I answered you so many times, but I cannot make you understand nor accept the answer. That is up to you.
 
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Guojing

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OIC1965 said:
I’d like to hear his answer on this
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As I have said to you

Yes, so Abraham, together with the rest of the OT saints, being born and died before the cross, do not enjoy the same blessings we have NOW in the body of Christ, which includes Christ's imputed righteousness on them.

They will receive them LATER.

I have bolded the necessary words.
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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VCO said:
I ask you again to please answer me:

Do you think you have NO SIN, or GAVE UP SINNING ? ? ?


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
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What caused the question?
Restate your question.......I don't understand it...?
 
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OIC1965

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Guojing said:
I answered you so many times, but I cannot make you understand nor accept the answer. That is up to you.
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It cannot be their own righteousness, because our righteousnesses are filthy rags, and even at our best we miss the Mark completely, utterly, and hopelessly.
 
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Guojing

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OIC1965 said:
That is debatable. That is speaking of David’s body, Peter was talking about his buried body in part or maybe in whole. I think. Either way, it has nothing to do with justification. When I die, my body will stay in the grave till the resurrection too
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That is your doctrine, which of course you are free to have.

Others believe that members of the Body of Christ, their spirit, goes to the 3rd heaven after they fall asleep.
 
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OIC1965

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Guojing said:
As I have said to you

Yes, so Abraham, together with the rest of the OT saints, being born and died before the cross, do not enjoy the same blessings we have NOW in the body of Christ, which includes Christ's imputed righteousness on them.

They will receive them LATER.

I have bolded the necessary words.
Click to expand...
So on what basis were they justified?
 
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Guojing

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OIC1965 said:
It cannot be their own righteousness, because our righteousnesses are filthy rags, and even at our best we miss the Mark completely, utterly, and hopelessly.
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That I certainly agree.

But that is not point of this discussion, we are discussing whether the OT saints had the same righteousness that all of us in the Body of Christ have NOW, which is the righteousness of Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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Guojing said:
I answered you so many times, but I cannot make you understand nor accept the answer. That is up to you.
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if you answered I would NT keep asking man

i already showed the so called answer you keep giving does not answer my question, but hey it’s ok, I understand why you do not want to answer if I was you I would not want to either
 
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eternally-gratefull

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Guojing said:
As I have said to you

Yes, so Abraham, together with the rest of the OT saints, being born and died before the cross, do not enjoy the same blessings we have NOW in the body of Christ, which includes Christ's imputed righteousness on them.

They will receive them LATER.

I have bolded the necessary words.
Click to expand...
So,who’s righteousness was Abraham imputed with? It does not say he would get it later, it says he got it then. And paul in Romans 4 makes that clear, he got it, right then right there
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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star said:
Well I will leave you and your "religious" view between you and God. My prayer is that He will open up your heart and mind to come to an understanding of what His Plan of Salvation is all about. If anyone has a "new age" view of God and His plan of redemption, it seems to be you.
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I don't have religious views...I have Christian views.
Plan of salvation?...what brought that about.
I am speaking of new age religion types...that is not me...those who maintain;

OSAS
Baptism not necessary
etc. (a long list)
 
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OIC1965

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Guojing said:
That is your doctrine, which of course you are free to have.

Others believe that members of the Body of Christ, their spirit, goes to the 3rd heaven after they fall asleep.
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But that has nothing to do with justification. If I agreed with you on this, I would still disagree with you on the basis of the OT Saints justification. But you are free to have your view

Keep an open mind, though.

I have ammended my beliefs and views many times when the scripture sheds light I hadn’t seen before. Keep an open mind on this.
 
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Guojing

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OIC1965 said:
So on what basis were they justified?
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The OT saints are placed in Abraham's bosom because they belong to the nation Israel all the way to when they fell asleep, they were not cut off from the Covenant.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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Guojing said:
That is your doctrine, which of course you are free to have.

Others believe that members of the Body of Christ, their spirit, goes to the 3rd heaven after they fall asleep.
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Jesus took paradise up to third heaven when he wipe the down to the deep, paradise is no longer where it was.
 
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Guojing

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OIC1965 said:
But that has nothing to do with justification. If I agreed with you on this, I would still disagree with you on the basis of the OT Saints justification. But you are free to have your view

Keep an open mind, though.

I have ammended my beliefs and views many times when the scripture sheds light I hadn’t seen before. Keep an open mind on this.
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You seem to think righteousness and justification meant the same thing? James might disagree in his chapter 2.
 
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OIC1965

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Guojing said:
That I certainly agree.

But that is not point of this discussion, we are discussing whether the OT saints had the same righteousness that all of us in the Body of Christ have NOW, which is the righteousness of Christ.
Click to expand...
But by whose righteousness were they justified?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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peldom10 said:
I don't have religious views...I have Christian views.
Plan of salvation?...what brought that about.
I am speaking of new age religion types...that is not me...those who maintain;

OSAS
Baptism not necessary
etc. (a long list)
Click to expand...
Basically what you preach is modern day phariseeism.
 
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Guojing

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eternally-gratefull said:
Jesus took paradise up to third heaven when he wipe the down to the deep, paradise is no longer where it was.
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If that is truly the case, then Peter would not have said that about David in the Acts 2 passages that I have quoted.

You are making an inference from scripture.
 
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