At Jesus' Ascension, some of the 11 "DOUBTED Him"!

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T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#1
#1
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#2
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
Click to expand...
21¶Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

24¶But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26¶And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28¶And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#3
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#3
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:
Click to expand...
This might tie in with Acts 1, and it could apply to doubting about the Second Coming. Since two angels announced it, they might not have been fully convinced.

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#4
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#4
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
Click to expand...
To teach us that the gospel that they were preaching could not have been 1 Cor 15:1-4.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#5
Jun 11, 2018
3,325
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#5
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​
Click to expand...
Hello TheWaytoGo, can we be certain who the "some" in v17 is actually referring to :unsure: (IOW, does the "some" who "doubted" refer to the 11 who "worshipped Him" (that seems odd, doesn't it?), or could the "some" refer to others/other disciples who had travelled with the 11 to the mountain in Galilee instead :unsure: (the use of the colon (or semi-colon in other translations) in v17 that divides the verse at that point is interesting as well, yes?)

Just FYI, the verb that we translate as "doubted" in v17 is edistasan, which actually denotes "hesitation", rather than "disbelief" (I'm not sure if that makes a difference here, but it is interesting as "edistasan" is only used twice in the NT, both times in Matthew).

When I'm able to access my Bible program again later this evening I'll take a closer look at this and get back to you if I find anything interesting when I do.

~Deut
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#6
#6
That word doubted could simply mean had questions, or wavering thoughts. I tend to go with the context, because he said peace be with you. So they were probably questioning.
There is no way to read any doctrinal theology into that verse.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#7
Dec 20, 2017
9,385
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#7
They were human. It shouldn't come as a shock.
Israel saw the sea part & watched God descend in cloud & fire, then fell for idol worship.

We have the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and ........well....... look at us! :eek:
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#8
#8
Maybe he was talking about Thomas. Maybe there were others with them. The brief summary of the last several verses of Matt 28 must be taken into consideration with the other Gospels that detail various meetings with his disciples after His resurrection. The order in which these meetings occurred are necessary to make them reconcile. A Harmony of the Gospels showing chronology is useful.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#9
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#9
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
Click to expand...
Backup just a tad and see in vs 10 that Jesus said to tell His brethren that they go to Galilee. Those who doubted in vs 17 we not necessarily just among the 11.

Even at Pentecost there were doubtless some who continued to doubt remaining in disbelief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#10
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#10
TheWaytoGo said:
When the 11 Apostles were worshiping Jesus on the Mount of Olives, just before He ascended into Heaven, some among the 11 "doubted" Him:

[KJV] Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.​
​
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.​

When they all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they ALL believed then. Is it possible, that some carnal, unregenerated men have the capability to recognize Jesus for Who He is, but that most men require the infilling of the Holy Spirit to have eyes to see?

Why did some Disciples recognize Jesus as the Second Person of the Godhead, and others, after all they had seen, still did not believe until Pentecost? Also, how does this verse relate to the church today? Why was it put into Scripture in the first place?
Click to expand...
They didn't believe that Gentiles were included until Acts 11 . So much For Acts 2.38 being the Gospel we preach today .
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#11
#11
throughfaith said:
21¶Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

24¶But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26¶And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28¶And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Click to expand...
So, even after receiving the Holy Spirit, "some" (not one, but some) still doubted Him at the point of His ascension.
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#12
#12
Nehemiah6 said:
This might tie in with Acts 1, and it could apply to doubting about the Second Coming. Since two angels announced it, they might not have been fully convinced.

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Click to expand...

Except the doubt came while they were "worshiping" Jesus, not after.
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#13
#13
Guojing said:
To teach us that the gospel that they were preaching could not have been 1 Cor 15:1-4.[/QUOTE


They switched from the Kingdom of God to the Gospel of Christ at some time, is that what you mean? So, they had doubts only about the new gospel?
Click to expand...
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#14
#14
Deuteronomy said:
Hello TheWaytoGo, can we be certain who the "some" in v17 is actually referring to :unsure: (IOW, does the "some" who "doubted" refer to the 11 who "worshipped Him" (that seems odd, doesn't it?), or could the "some" refer to others/other disciples who had travelled with the 11 to the mountain in Galilee instead :unsure: (the use of the colon (or semi-colon in other translations) in v17 that divides the verse at that point is interesting as well, yes?)

Just FYI, the verb that we translate as "doubted" in v17 is edistasan, which actually denotes "hesitation", rather than "disbelief" (I'm not sure if that makes a difference here, but it is interesting as "edistasan" is only used twice in the NT, both times in Matthew).

When I'm able to access my Bible program again later this evening I'll take a closer look at this and get back to you if I find anything interesting when I do.

~Deut
Click to expand...
The verse says it was an appointed meeting place for just the 11.
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
#15
#15
notuptome said:
Backup just a tad and see in vs 10 that Jesus said to tell His brethren that they go to Galilee. Those who doubted in vs 17 we not necessarily just among the 11.

Even at Pentecost there were doubtless some who continued to doubt remaining in disbelief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

According to verse 16 it was just the 11 who met Him.

But the eleven disciples proceeded * to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#16
#16
TheWaytoGo said:
So, even after receiving the Holy Spirit, "some" (not one, but some) still doubted Him at the point of His ascension.
Click to expand...
24¶But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Making a point about how "some" cannot be one, is going to be hard to conclusively prove. When we start trying to establish something like that based on English word usage we must look at the original language manuscripts to see if that sort of reasoning can be supported by the Greek.
I don't know the answer to that. It may be that the Greek simply means "who" which cannot be used to prove the number of "who"

It might be nothing more than an account in Matthew of Thomas doubting which is more specifically explained in John with more details.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#17
May 17, 2013
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#17
TheWaytoGo said:
According to verse 16 it was just the 11 who met Him.

But the eleven disciples proceeded * to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated
Click to expand...
Vs 16 does not limit the number to 11. The 11 were there but like the upper room there could have been more. The text does not say only 11 went as instructed. The women who carried the message could certainly have followed to Galilee since they knew Jesus would be there.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#18
#18
TheWaytoGo said:
According to verse 16 it was just the 11 who met Him.

But the eleven disciples proceeded * to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated
Click to expand...
It does not say that no one else was with them.

16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

It is true that the 11 went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them, even if there were others following them, the 11 still went.

If we did not have all the other accounts we might be confused, but we do have all the other accounts and we know that more people were at many of these meetings.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. (1 Corinthians 15:3–7)

And in the end, we have to also remember that there is nothing to suggest that these some that doubted were perpetual doubters.

And I suppose your original post was suggesting that these doubters, whoever they were, were finally cured of their doubting on the day of Pentecost?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#19
Aug 4, 2020
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#19
TheWaytoGo said:
So, even after receiving the Holy Spirit, "some" (not one, but some) still doubted Him at the point of His ascension.
Click to expand...
Didn't they have to wait to recieve the Holy Spirit in the upper room ?
Peter did not believe the resurrection after it happened. Nor the cross . The disciples didn't understand many things until Cornelius and then until Paul .
 
Kolistus

Kolistus

Well-known member
#20
Feb 3, 2020
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#20
Lucy-Pevensie said:
They were human. It shouldn't come as a shock.
Israel saw the sea part & watched God descend in cloud & fire, then fell for idol worship.

We have the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and ........well....... look at us! :eek:
Click to expand...
It is remarkable, God can do all sorts of things and men will continue to fail Him, men includes me by the way.

I believe this is the purpose of the millennium. To show people that even when the devil is bound, there is still sin, and to show that when the devil is loosed, there will be massive rebellion.
 
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