I believe (and far too few commentators) that the conquest of Canaan by Joshua is a microcosm, type and foreshadowing of the end-time conquest of planet earth by Christ Jesus Messiah.
Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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Well, let's see who has what "aversion", shall we?You really have an aversion to its saying "until the TIMES [PLURAL] of," don't you.
New International Version
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
English Standard Version
whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Berean Literal Bible
whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from theage.
King James Bible
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
New King James Version
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
New American Standard Bible
whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times.
NASB 1995
whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
NASB 1977
whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Christian Standard Bible
Heaven must receive him until the time of the restoration of all things, which God spoke about through his holy prophets from the beginning.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Heaven must welcome Him until the times of the restoration of all things, which God spoke about by the mouth of His holy prophets from the beginning.
American Standard Version
whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Whom heaven indeed must receive, until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, from the beginning of the world.
English Revised Version
whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of his holy prophets which have been since the world began.
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Heaven must receive Jesus until the time when everything will be restored as God promised through his holy prophets long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.
Literal Standard Version
whom Heaven required, indeed, to receive until times of a restitution of all things, of which God spoke through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.
NET Bible
This one heaven must receive until the time all things are restored, which God declared from times long ago through his holy prophets.
New Heart English Bible
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.
Weymouth New Testament
Heaven must receive Him until those times of which God has spoken from the earliest ages through the lips of His holy Prophets--the times of the reconstitution of all things.
World English Bible
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.
Young's Literal Translation
whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.
Looks to me it's a wash. Translators use both "time" and "times". You have no point.
3 translations used "until the period".
So what? You haven't shown any difference between "time" and "times". Other than the letter "S".
The point is clear: Jesus stays/remains in heaven until God restores all things.
Are you going to argue that Jesus comes back during the Tribulation? Then you'd have to argue that somehow, the wrath of God is part of His restoration, when in fact, it is BEFORE He restores all things.
FreeGrace2 said:
This verse does NOT support a pre-Trib rapture. What it does say, and clearly, is that the FAITHFUL believers will avoid God's wrath. It doesn't make this promise to all believers. Yet, all living believers will be changed when Jesus returns to earth the SECOND time.
And, this verse doesn't mean that faithful believers will not be persecuted by the evil unbelievers. That isn't God's wrath. And believers will be persecuted.
This verse does NOT support a pre-Trib rapture. What it does say, and clearly, is that the FAITHFUL believers will avoid God's wrath. It doesn't make this promise to all believers. Yet, all living believers will be changed when Jesus returns to earth the SECOND time.
And, this verse doesn't mean that faithful believers will not be persecuted by the evil unbelievers. That isn't God's wrath. And believers will be persecuted.
Are you unfamiliar with English? It's clear enough. Maybe you are just not familiar with all that the Bible says. But the verse is a promise to FAITHFUL believers, not ALL believers. Is that clear to you, or just "crazy talk" to you?
Just curious: why do you think it was written before 70 AD? My study Bible says the Johannine epistles and Revelation were written between 85-96 AD.
Amen brother. A prophecy spoken of waaaay back in the time of Enoch before the flood!
Another bellwether prophetical proof of the Rapture phenomenon. Doctrinal bedrock IMO. Has everything going for it. And absolutely nothing against it in all of Scripture.
Jude 1:14-15
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
“to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Yes these are saints and not angels...(KJV Strong's G40 matches the Greek ἅγιος (hagios).)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=saints*+G40&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1
You're getting tangled in a web of contradictions. That's what happens when the Bible is poorly interpreted. Let me detangle that for you.
Revelation 20:4-6 is the first resurrection that occurs in two phases separated by a period of 1,000 years. The first group are Christians who died during the great tribulation for refusing to accept the mark of the beast. The second group is everyone else. Both groups make the first resurrection.
Meanwhile, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 says the dead in Christ will rise first when He returns. You place the rapture before the great tribulation and the first resurrection before the great tribulation.
The Bible completely disagrees with you on this subject:
1. The first resurrection contains the first group of people who died in refusing to take the MOTB in the GT.
2. After 1,000 years the rest of the saints are resurrected.
3. Pre-tribbers place the first resurrection at the time of the rapture before the great tribulation.
4. Pre-tribulation theory contradicts the Bible.
Sorry, you really don't know eschatology very well. You've been indoctrinated by false teachers. I'm trying to help you.
The only way to make eschatology mesh is by placing the rapture post-tribulation.
Rev 14
It is NOT THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.
You have no case at all.
Besides every rapture verse is in complete contradiction to the coming on white horses.
The saints come with Him FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH in rev 19 And the dialogue at the last supper places the business between the bride and groom In HEAVEN.
Not only that but rev 19 says " the bride has become the wife " IN HEAVEN.
Plus the AC murders anyone refusing the mark. And the bible says every man woman and child take the mark.
psssst....no believer is left alive by the mid trib
You have no case at all.
Is a coming for ripe fruit.
It is NOT THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.
You have no case at all.
Besides every rapture verse is in complete contradiction to the coming on white horses.
The saints come with Him FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH in rev 19 And the dialogue at the last supper places the business between the bride and groom In HEAVEN.
Not only that but rev 19 says " the bride has become the wife " IN HEAVEN.
Plus the AC murders anyone refusing the mark. And the bible says every man woman and child take the mark.
psssst....no believer is left alive by the mid trib
You have no case at all.
"So you see the end time harvest as "Jews only". I don't. I can see where a pre-trib belief would force you into that though."
Just rev 14 as jewish harvest.
The 144k are purely and exclusively Jews.
They are firstfruits.
Main harvest is automatically following.
Main harvest Jews.
Grapes as opposed to grain.
The 1st miracle was at a wedding. Jewish wedding.
IOW IT HAD TO BE AT A WEDDING. WITH WINE.
And declared "you saved the best wine for last."
(Rev 14)
( Jews come in last to the marriage where Jesus enacted the betrothal at the last supper. That wedding was referenced at that time)
This thing has depth.
The Jew comes in last
Great tribulation / great apostasy -> (and then) -> Rapture of the believers and Christ Yeshua's return -> (and then) -> Christ Yeshua's Millennial Kingdom
Great apostasy / great tribulation under the antichrist / "son of perdition" -> (and then) -> The rapture of those alive, together with the resurrected believers, all ascending to the clouds, at the return of Christ Yeshua descending in the clouds.
There will definitely be a rapture, as God's word tells us that immediately after the great apostasy and great tribulation (Matthew 24) during which the antichrist "son of perdition" is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2), Christ Yeshua will return in the clouds, and all those who died in Christ Yeshua will rise from the dead, to meet Christ Yeshua, together with those who are still alive, in the clouds. After the rapture and gathering in the clouds of all the believers from earth, Christ Yeshua descends to earth to conquer all remaining on earth with His armies, to start His Millennial reign with his believing saints, to rule over the whole earth (Revelation 20).
2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)
The Great Apostasy
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come.
3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Great apostasy / great tribulation under the antichrist / "son of perdition" -> (and then) -> The rapture of those alive, together with the resurrected believers, all ascending to the clouds, at the return of Christ Yeshua descending in the clouds.
There will definitely be a rapture, as God's word tells us that immediately after the great apostasy and great tribulation (Matthew 24) during which the antichrist "son of perdition" is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2), Christ Yeshua will return in the clouds, and all those who died in Christ Yeshua will rise from the dead, to meet Christ Yeshua, together with those who are still alive, in the clouds. After the rapture and gathering in the clouds of all the believers from earth, Christ Yeshua descends to earth to conquer all remaining on earth with His armies, to start His Millennial reign with his believing saints, to rule over the whole earth (Revelation 20).
2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)
The Great Apostasy
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come.
3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
I'm looking at the Greek (rather than at the translations):
Acts 3:21 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) "timeS [plural; G5550 - χρόνων chronōn ]"
I had never noticed that before. But indeed there is a difference, but what is the difference? One is the earthly millennial kingdom, the one in John 14:1-3 is not?Mhhmm
--"I GO TO PREPARE a place for you"
is distinct from
--"come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM ["apo"; not "PRO" said of others elsewhere] the foundation of the world"
...see the distinction here?
Right.
--Matthew 25:31-34 (and context) pertains to their [the "righteous" / "BLESSED" - Sheep, of the nations (Gentiles)] entrance into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [-age], commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth ["having been prepared for you FROM [G575 apo (NOT "PRO" said of others elsewhere)] the foundation of the world"]
--John 14:2 says - "In My Father's house there are many mansions [G3438]. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place [ *G5117 - topon] for you?"
[per BibleHub]
*[G5117 - topon] Definition: a place
Usage: a place, region, seat; an opportunity.
John 14:2 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com)
Every single verse that references the rapture is set in context of the second coming of Christ. Christ returns once.
Do you say Christ returns once, twice, or three times?
@Kolistus , ^ [EDIT TO ADD to my last post] ^ JFYI, John 11:48 uses the word "place [G5117 - topon ]" here:
If G1437 we let G863 ➔ him G846 thus G3779 alone, G863 all G3956 men will believe G4100 on G1519 him: G846 and G2532 the Romans G4514 shall come G2064 and G2532 take away G142 both G2532 our G2257 place G5117 and G2532 nation. G1484
If G1437 we let G863 ➔ him G846 thus G3779 alone, G863 all G3956 men will believe G4100 on G1519 him: G846 and G2532 the Romans G4514 shall come G2064 and G2532 take away G142 both G2532 our G2257 place G5117 and G2532 nation. G1484
The 144 thousand are Jews yes. They have a model in The Torah.
The rest is you speculating.
Paul, in his two epistles to the Thessalonians, was mostly covering the Subject of an "eschatological salvation" [/deliverance]
[he refers to the event we commonly call "Rapture" something like 8-10 times in these two epistles... not just the ONE verse we think of most, 1Th4:17]
Agreed, just maybe for clarity on the term Jew, and what part of Israel the term Jew refers to:
oftheCreator.com :
King David and Solomon's united monarchic kingdom of Israel, was split into two, the (three tribes of: Judah, Benjamin and Levi) southern kingdom of Judah with Jerusalem as its capitol under rule of Rehoboam son of Solomon of the tribe of Judah ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehoboam ); as split from the (eight tribes and two half tribes of: Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, half-tribe Manasseh, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, half-tribe Joseph/Ephraim, Dan) northern kingdom of Israel with Samaria as its capitol under rule of Jeroboam son of Nebat of the tribe of Ephraim/Joseph ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeroboam ).
Not all of Israel / Jacob's tribes are Jews. The term Jew originated after the split of king David and king Solomon's united monarchic kingdom of Israel. Jews only refers to the three Judean southern tribes (consisting of Judah son of Jacob/Israel, Benjamin son of Jacob/Israel and Levi son of Jacob/Israel). The term Jew is derived from Judeans, named after the tribe Judah who ruled the split southern kingdom of Judea with its capitol at Jerusalem who went into Babylonian captivity around 597BC, and specifically excludes the formerly eight and two half tribes of the northern kingdom of the tribes under the rule of the tribe Ephraim/Joseph who went into Assyrian captivity before around 740BC.
Ezekiel 37 gives us a prophesy that Ephraim and Judah will be reunited as restored Israel in Christ Yeshua's Millennial reign on the whole earth over all Abraham's blessed God fearing children, of God's renewed covenant in Christ Yeshua, consisting of both Jacob/Israel's covenant children, and Abraham's other blessed non-Israelite Gentile covenant children.
Revelation 7 (New King James Version)
The Sealed of Israel
1After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were [a]sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
OK, so again, so what? What's the point?
Explain how much different "time" is from "times". I think this is just a word game.
What changes if the "S" is there or not?
They, the 144k, are firstfruits.
They are in heaven ahead of the ripe fruit Jesus gathers.
The Jews are grafted back in in the future (Romans).
Main harvest follows firstfruits.
All facts
I am just a reporter.