The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

[Phoneman-777]

Peter was a minister to the circumcision (Galatians 2:7-9), and he was quoted as saying this about the mystery that was revealed to Paul in 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Of course, if you want to believe that Peter understood everything that Paul was taught by the ascended Christ himself, I am fine too. Its not a salvific issue.

It's very much a salvific issue, because the pre-trip rapture is false security to those who are not preparing to stand during the crisis, and will be overcome by it. It is true that Paul said things "hard to be understood" like when he told the Ephesians, "...it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast" and but then told the Romans, "...but the doers of the law are justified" (only difficult for those who want to defend iniquity in the life of the Christian).

But, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV is perfect harmony with Paul's easily understood words about the coming of the Lord:

When speaking of "the day of Christ" and when "that day" shall come (the same singular day, not two "days" separated by 7 years), did not Paul say the Man of Sin must be revealed before the "gathering together" of the saints, and that the Lord shall destroy the wicked "with the brightness of His coming"?

Yes, both Peter and Paul taught when the Lord comes as "a thief in the night" it will be accompanied by destruction.

Let's not indict the Lord on charges that He failed to adequately warn the church about the most important event in Earth's history since Calvary, OK?

 

[Guojing]

It's very much a salvific issue, because the pre-trip rapture is false security to those who are not preparing to stand during the crisis, and will be overcome by it. It is true that Paul said things "hard to be understood" like when he told the Ephesians, "...it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast" and but then told the Romans, "...but the doers of the law are justified" (only difficult for those who want to defend iniquity in the life of the Christian).

But, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV is perfect harmony with Paul's easily understood words about the coming of the Lord:

When speaking of "the day of Christ" and when "that day" shall come (the same singular day, not two "days" separated by 7 years), did not Paul say the Man of Sin must be revealed before the "gathering together" of the saints, and that the Lord shall destroy the wicked "with the brightness of His coming"?

Yes, both Peter and Paul taught when the Lord comes as "a thief in the night" it will be accompanied by destruction.

Let's not indict the Lord on charges that He failed to adequately warn the church about the most important event in Earth's history since Calvary, OK?

Jesus's intended audience was only for the lost sheep of Israel in his first coming (Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8)

The Body of Christ was not formed until Paul was saved. So no, the Lord has no charges there. He knew how to keep something hidden in God since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9)

Think of the 4 Gospels as the ending of the Old Testament, rather than the beginning of the New (Hebrews 9:16)

 

[ewq1938]

The answer is yes.

Thank you.

 

[Guojing]

Thank you.

What about you?

 

[ewq1938]

What about you?

My answer would be yes as well.

 

[Guojing]

My answer would be yes as well.

Is it the first time you realized you cannot find that in the letters of James, John and Peter, without trying to read it inside?

 

[ewq1938]

Is it the first time you realized you cannot find that in the letters of James, John and Peter, without trying to read it inside?

It is irrelevant where it's found or not found. Salvation through faith in Christ is a valid doctrine.

 

[pottersclay]

Exactly!

The Cult of John N. Darby & C.I. Scofield in Dispensationalism do use the ole (Thief In The Night) verse below, it was used as the title for the 1972 Sci-Fi thriller movie attached, shown in Churches around the world in the 70's-80's, The pre-trib rapture, those left behind subjected to no food, medical, Antichrist death squads chasing Christians, guillotines, the mark of the beast or die!

That film and its sequels (Distant Thunder) & (Mark Of The Beast) were pushed every Friday, Saturday night in churches for "Years"!

Of Course (The Day Of The Lord Comes As A Thief) In Fire And Judgement, The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

Wikipedia: A Thief in the Night is a 1972 evangelical Christian film written by Jim Grant, directed and produced by Donald W. Thompson. The film stars Patty Dunning as Patty Myers, the main character and protagonist, along with Thom Rachford, Colleen Niday, and Mike Niday in supporting roles. It is the first installment in the Thief in the Night series about the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ. The film is set during the near future, focusing on Patty, a young woman who was not raptured and who struggles to decide what to do in the face of the Tribulation.

A Thief in the Night

Theatrical release poster

1 Thessalonians 5:1-2KJV
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Oh you my friend are so far off course here google can't find you.

The term thief in the night is scripture. Jesus said to labor when it is day for the night will come when no man can work.
There will come a time when they will not listen to sound doctrine. When they only want there ears tickled. When they call good evil and evil good.
Time of the gentiles are done....the church removed that restrains the man of sin. Here comes the trib.

 

[Journeyman]

The scripture says when the 7th trump sounds, all kingdoms belong to Christ

Belong to God and his Christ. Yes, I know it says that. I explained without contradicting other passages of scripture why it says that. You simply ignored what I said.

which means he is the leader of all Earthly kingdoms which is a new thing that is not happening before the 7th trump.

Or it means how God and his Christ have ruled all nations from the beginning of time was not previously made known.

What the saints could easily be saying is that the kingdoms of this world have become (to us, have been revealed as) the Lords.

As I said, it makes no sense that something God created at some point no longer belongs to him, until a future time and then belongs to him again.

It makes no sense, unless how God has always ruled wasn't properly understood.

 

[soberxp]

My understanding of the great tribulation is like this,When you think God's justice is delayed, when you think evil conquers justice, when you think Christ's enemies should be destroyed and nothing happens.
This is the patience of the saints, and this is also a test,Facing these things will make you believe in God more firmly or shake your faith.I now try to exercise my heart every day to face the Antichrist's slander against you,but still peace in heart,This is growing up in faith, In My Opinions.

 

[ewq1938]

Your interpretation contradicts the plainly written text. Jesus was not the ruler of the worldly kingdoms before the 7th trump.

Belong to God and his Christ. Yes, I know it says that. I explained without contradicting other passages of scripture why it says that. You simply ignored what I said.

Or it means how God and his Christ have ruled all nations from the beginning of time was not previously made known.

What the saints could easily be saying is that the kingdoms of this world have become (to us, have been revealed as) the Lords.

As I said, it makes no sense that something God created at some point no longer belongs to him, until a future time and then belongs to him again.

It makes no sense, unless how God has always ruled wasn't properly understood.

 

[Guojing]

It is irrelevant where it's found or not found. Salvation through faith in Christ is a valid doctrine.

During the Tribulation, faith alone in Christ's death burial and resurrection will no longer be sufficient.

If you take the mark of the beast at anytime during those 7 years, it will be the lake of fire for you. (Revelations 14:9-11, James 2:20-24, 1 John 2:28, 1 Peter 4:18).

 

[ewq1938]

During the Tribulation, faith alone in Christ's death burial and resurrection will no longer be sufficient.

There is that heresy thing again. What you say is false.

 

[Guojing]

There is that heresy thing again. What you say is false.

It is stated in Revelation 14:9-11.

Did the angel meant what he said there?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What button do I push for "English"?

TDW Post #42:

--"the Day of the Lord so ARRIVES like a thief IN THE NIGHT" (not Jesus Himself, but the earthly-located TIME-PERIOD of JUDGMENTS unfolding, etc... commencing at SEAL #1 / the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" that both Paul and Jesus spoke of)

--"Behold, I come AS A THIEF. [period]" (Jesus Himself, at the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19)

[cont'd] [these are distinct items occurring at distinct points in the overall chronology, rather than speaking of the same point--and neither refer to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point (...though Paul DOES cover "WHEN that will happen" IN RELATION TO the earthly DOTL time-period [under the TOP entry, above ^ ])]

I simplified it...

let me know if you require further clarification on this point. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The purpose of Jesus' return is clearly laid out in John 14 KJV: "In My Father's house are many mansions...if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive YOU (He's talking to the Church, not Israel) unto Myself, that where I am, there may ye be also."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV clearly demonstrates that when Jesus comes gloriously, spectacularly, triumphantly in the clouds with His angels, the dead and living saints rise to meet Him in the air in fulfillment of His promise in John 14 KJV.

But that ^ is not what happens at His "RETURN" ("RETURN" to the earth)... for THAT you need to refer to the "RETURN" passages (and parallels):

--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (45-48) "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an "ALREADY-WED" Bridegroom), THEN the meal [G347-and where this word is used in parallel passages]

--[parallel to the above passage-->] Matthew 24:44-47 (48-51) (ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" passage speak of His Second Coming to the earth designation [to judge/govern/reign] at Rev19)

--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"... when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over TEN CITIES" and "likewise be thou over FIVE CITIES" ("cities" are located ON THE EARTH)

--etc...


[His "RETURN" speaks of His "return" to the earth point in time, NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in the chronology]

____________

Aside from the above-portion ^ of my post (which is only just a small part of what all I could put), there's also what I put over in another thread (about the "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you" passage):

Post #970 - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4487112

 

[ewq1938]

I simplified it...

let me know if you require further clarification on this point. = )

He, and I, and everyone else want you to post normal stuff. You clutter your posts with confusion. You know what we are talking about.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

He, and I, and everyone else want you to post normal stuff. You clutter your posts with confusion. You know what we are talking about.

"...the day of the Lord so cometh/arrives as a thief in the night" is not referring to Jesus Himself, when He Himself arrives, but of the arrival of the time-period starting with the initial "birth pang" which Jesus also spoke of... that is at the "starting point" of the trib years (i.e. Seal #1, Rev6), not its "ending" point (Rev19; when He Himself will *then* come "as a thief." ... but not "in the night"... which phrase is not added when speaking of HIM/HIS arrival ).


"The day of the Lord" is an *earthly time period* not a *Person* [/HIS arrival], see.


["the day of the Lord" commences with a spans of time covering "judgments" unfolding upon the earth: "the seals /trumpets / vials"... but doesn't conclude there]

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh you my friend are so far off course here google can't find you.

The term thief in the night is scripture. Jesus said to labor when it is day for the night will come when no man can work.
There will come a time when they will not listen to sound doctrine. When they only want there ears tickled. When they call good evil and evil good.
Time of the gentiles are done....the church removed that restrains the man of sin. Here comes the trib.

When they call good evil and evil good?

Is that like calling the (Second Coming) and Last Day Resurrection, a Pre-Trib Rapture when its not?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In Matthew 24:3 it is evident that Jesus' disciples were privy to the end of the world occuring at the return of Christ as evidenced by their words:

Matt. 24:3
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The phrase in Matthew 24:3 is not "the end of the world," but rather "the end of the age," which Jesus had PREVIOUSLY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... when the angels [/reapers] will "reap"... and the only ones [at the point-in-time being referenced] of whom it is said (with regard to)...

--"gather ye FIRST the TARES" (said to the angels/reapers)

--and the "shall gather OUT" [but, the rest remaining where they are] at that point in the chronology

... is not "us / the Church which is His body" (because this is not speaking in reference to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event, which occurs much earlier in the chronology, than this point-in-time being referenced here).




The disciples understood correctly that "the age [singular] to come" (Matt12:32) FOLLOWS what they were referring to specifically in the usage of the phrase "the end of the age" in their Q of Jesus (Matt24:3). All "earthly-located".