Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Rather, you are simply too confused to understand what the Bible says. Apparently you think Rev 14:18's "gathering" is a rapture. Not.even.close.
Rather, it should be. The meaning of that word in EACH verse requires some context to understand what it means.
Gen 31:46 - He said to his relatives, “Gather some stones.” So they took stones and piled them in a heap, and they ate there by the heap.
Gen 49:1 - Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.
Ex 5:7 - “You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw.
Ex 16:4 - Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.
OK, with these verses, we see what can be "gathered": sones, sons, straw, bread. OK?
Now, Rev 14:18,19
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
OK, so what' being "gathered" in Rev 14? Stones? Sons? Straw? Or bread? Nope. Grapes.
Now, the red words tells us exactly what is to be gathered. The blue words explain WHY they are to be gathered.
Now, some will conveniently ignored v.19, which is sad, because v.19 explains WHERE the "gathered" grapes go.
So, those who think that the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to some rapture, then the raptured grapes are thrown into the "great winepress of God's wrath.
So, is that what you think of the "rapture"? That it's a way for God to pour out His wrath on His raptured saints????
L.O.L.
Rather, you are simply too confused to understand what the Bible says. Apparently you think Rev 14:18's "gathering" is a rapture. Not.even.close.
Rather, it should be. The meaning of that word in EACH verse requires some context to understand what it means.
Gen 31:46 - He said to his relatives, “Gather some stones.” So they took stones and piled them in a heap, and they ate there by the heap.
Gen 49:1 - Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.
Ex 5:7 - “You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw.
Ex 16:4 - Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.
OK, with these verses, we see what can be "gathered": sones, sons, straw, bread. OK?
Now, Rev 14:18,19
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
OK, so what' being "gathered" in Rev 14? Stones? Sons? Straw? Or bread? Nope. Grapes.
Now, the red words tells us exactly what is to be gathered. The blue words explain WHY they are to be gathered.
Now, some will conveniently ignored v.19, which is sad, because v.19 explains WHERE the "gathered" grapes go.
So, those who think that the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to some rapture, then the raptured grapes are thrown into the "great winepress of God's wrath.
So, is that what you think of the "rapture"? That it's a way for God to pour out His wrath on His raptured saints????
L.O.L.
It appears you need some help, allow me 
Seventy Weeks Is Exactly What Is Written, Four Hundred Ninety Days, Its That Simple
Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Seventy Weeks Is Exactly What Is Written, Four Hundred Ninety Days, Its That Simple
Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Since when is Jerusalem the hub of all world trade? Tiny little Israel is a spec on the economic map. Did all the kings of the earth get rich because of trade with Israel? Not a chance.
Rev 18:3
“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nkjv/rev/18/1/s_1185001
Rev 18:3
“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nkjv/rev/18/1/s_1185001
Sorry, Israel is likened to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11:8, as the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven,the final hours of earth's existence unfolds
Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great Not Rome, She Has Filled The Cup Of Gods Wrath, That Will Be Poured Out In His Indignation.
Jesus Christ Dissolves This Earth At His Second Coming, There Will Be No Earth To Have Any Restoration
If You Claim New Jerusalem Is Gods Restoration I Would Agree.
Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great Not Rome, She Has Filled The Cup Of Gods Wrath, That Will Be Poured Out In His Indignation.
Jesus Christ Dissolves This Earth At His Second Coming, There Will Be No Earth To Have Any Restoration
If You Claim New Jerusalem Is Gods Restoration I Would Agree.
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Hellenistic View?
Real Big Smiles!
The existing heaven and earth will pass away by fire, there will be a completely new creation, In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Real Big Smiles!
The existing heaven and earth will pass away by fire, there will be a completely new creation, In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
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I don't believe the prostitute is Rome. That's beside the point. You can't build a whole doctrine on one verse.
A verse which is expressly stating the meaning is FIGURATIVE. Read it again.
You have to throw out dozens of verses to make Jerusalem the prostitute. Most of the Bible would have to go in the bin.
I'm not prepared to take any replacement theology seriously.
A verse which is expressly stating the meaning is FIGURATIVE. Read it again.
You have to throw out dozens of verses to make Jerusalem the prostitute. Most of the Bible would have to go in the bin.
I'm not prepared to take any replacement theology seriously.
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(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
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“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1
“And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.”
Revelation 14:3 KJV
these things are after they had died they had left the earth already and we’re in the heavenly Jerusalem that’s where Christ is reigning now eventually when the time comes the heavens will open and in his reign he will reach back down to earth and do away with evil .
he’s ruling now , the church who has passed through the earth is there with him meanwhile on earth
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:17
And so on earth the church
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
1 Peter 5:8 KJV
in heaven the kingdom is in order but on earth it’s in a different state not the difference
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
Revelation 12:10-12 KJV
according to who though ? Isn’t that just how you see things ? If it’s so clear where’s the clarity in scripture making a distinction between being resurrected and being raised from the dead I’m not sure even what the thinking is there one term defines the other term
if I died tomorrow and was raised to life again a week later what’s the word for that ? Did I not get resurrected ? “No no you got raised from the dead brother “ what’s that called ? Resurrection right ?!
nope it’s different clearly ..... how and why ? To be resurrected is when you die and then you are brought back to life
but it’s okay if you don’t agree , I’m good with that and hope you also can be okay with someone disagreeing with you peacefully .
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1
“And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.”
Revelation 14:3 KJV
these things are after they had died they had left the earth already and we’re in the heavenly Jerusalem that’s where Christ is reigning now eventually when the time comes the heavens will open and in his reign he will reach back down to earth and do away with evil .
he’s ruling now , the church who has passed through the earth is there with him meanwhile on earth
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:17
And so on earth the church
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
1 Peter 5:8 KJV
in heaven the kingdom is in order but on earth it’s in a different state not the difference
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
Revelation 12:10-12 KJV
according to who though ? Isn’t that just how you see things ? If it’s so clear where’s the clarity in scripture making a distinction between being resurrected and being raised from the dead I’m not sure even what the thinking is there one term defines the other term
if I died tomorrow and was raised to life again a week later what’s the word for that ? Did I not get resurrected ? “No no you got raised from the dead brother “ what’s that called ? Resurrection right ?!
nope it’s different clearly ..... how and why ? To be resurrected is when you die and then you are brought back to life
but it’s okay if you don’t agree , I’m good with that and hope you also can be okay with someone disagreeing with you peacefully .
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FreeGrace2 said:
My point is simple the word “ resurrection “ means “ to be raised from death to life “
To be clear, "raised from physical death to eternal life". Not just "life".
Not sure what you mean by "it". If "resurrection", then it means resurrected from the grave.
However, I also said that the time of the "gathering" or "rapture", the living saints will ALSO receive the same kind of body that the dead saints get.
So I think it's kind of a word play to try to separate the 2 words. All believers, whether previously dead or currently alive, get the same kind of body. That is clear from 1 Cor 15. There are NOT 2 kinds of bodies at the "first resurrection". Only 1 kind.
Or, if there is proof of 2 kinds of bodies, please show proof, for those who think there will be 2 kinds of bodies when Jesus comes from heaven.
My point is simple the word “ resurrection “ means “ to be raised from death to life “
To be clear, "raised from physical death to eternal life". Not just "life".
Not sure what you mean by "it". If "resurrection", then it means resurrected from the grave.
However, I also said that the time of the "gathering" or "rapture", the living saints will ALSO receive the same kind of body that the dead saints get.
So I think it's kind of a word play to try to separate the 2 words. All believers, whether previously dead or currently alive, get the same kind of body. That is clear from 1 Cor 15. There are NOT 2 kinds of bodies at the "first resurrection". Only 1 kind.
Or, if there is proof of 2 kinds of bodies, please show proof, for those who think there will be 2 kinds of bodies when Jesus comes from heaven.
Of course I know what a decade is in modern terms, the words not found in my KJV
Do you know what LGBTQIA is?
It's not found in my holy bible either
Do you know what LGBTQIA is?
It's not found in my holy bible either
There is nothing particularly conservative about it either.
FYI 'Decade' is not a word used in any modern English translation.
It is an easily understood term however.
""Well, your posts clearly suggest otherwise""
Show me.
You are dead wrong yet again.
""Well, you haven't proven by any kind of clear explanation as to how I've painted myself into any corner.""
Your avoidance speaks for itself.
You have not ever honestly looked at rev 14.
But then again,it would destroy your deal as I have shown.
Show me.
You are dead wrong yet again.
""Well, you haven't proven by any kind of clear explanation as to how I've painted myself into any corner.""
Your avoidance speaks for itself.
You have not ever honestly looked at rev 14.
But then again,it would destroy your deal as I have shown.
""So, those who think that the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to some rapture, then the raptured grapes are thrown into the "great winepress of God's wrath.""
Lol
Those thrown in the winepress are OVER RIPE.
ROTTEN.
Gathered by angels... Not Jesus.
See that's the thing...you can not unpack a no brainier.
You MUST reframe it...literally REINVENT IT to save face of how I just took out your entire postrib rapture workbook
Lol
Those thrown in the winepress are OVER RIPE.
ROTTEN.
Gathered by angels... Not Jesus.
See that's the thing...you can not unpack a no brainier.
You MUST reframe it...literally REINVENT IT to save face of how I just took out your entire postrib rapture workbook
