Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[ewq1938]

Your claim is false, the (Two Witnesses) dominate the great tribulation through Gods plagues and wrath as seen below

The 2W aren't even able to keep themselves from getting killed, they cannot protect others from being killed, they can't stop the rise of the Antichrist and his beast kingdom nor the ten smaller kingdoms that make up the ten horns. They can't stop the order to make the image of the beast or stop it from speaking and can't stop the mark from being issued to people.

Obviously they do not rule in the Great Tribulation. The rule is allowed to the two beasts with the help of Satan. The 2W can only act in self defense so their testimony can take place but as soon as that is finished, they are killed.

It's called a tribulation for a reason because Christians will be persecuted and killed. It's not the "great rule of the two witnesses".

Listen to Christ on this time period:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

If that's the rule of the 2W, they are doing a horrible job.

 

[GaryA]

@Truth7t7 - please read this post (#235) until it sinks in... :

Matthew 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What 'event' occurs 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days'?

Is it this?

No - it is this.

Between 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days' in verse 29 and 'And then' in verse 30 is a 3.5-year span of time.

It is the time of the Two Witnesses.

It is the time of the Trumpet events.

The Two Witnesses cause the Trumpet events.

Compare scripture with scripture:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

 

[Truth7t7]

Always remember - and never forget - [that] the "tour of duty" of the Two Witnesses is to be a witness. - not to administer punishment.

Their total-sum effort-and-purpose is to soften the hardened hearts of the wicked so that "a few" can still be saved.

And then - when the last person that will be saved is saved - Jesus returns and "takes down" all of the evil on the earth.

Your claims are in (Error)

The (Two Witnesses) deliver Gods (Judgement in Wrath), upon the antichrist and wicked world

You will closely note in Rev 11:6, the (Two Witnesses) have power over the plague of water to blood

You will closely note in Rev 16:4 the waters are turned into blood, as Rev 16:1 clearly shows this to be God's (Wrath) and yes, the (Two Witnesses) will be Gods representatives delivering it

Yes the (Two Witnesses) standing before the Antichrist, will be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, plus sum

Revelation 16:1-4KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

[GaryA]

Your claims are in (Error)

The (Two Witnesses) deliver Gods (Judgement in Wrath), upon the antichrist and wicked world

You will closely note in Rev 11:6, the (Two Witnesses) have power over the plague of water to blood

You will closely note in Rev 16:4 the waters are turned into blood, as Rev 16:1 clearly shows this to be God's (Wrath) and yes, the (Two Witnesses) will be Gods representatives delivering it

Yes the (Two Witnesses) standing before the Antichrist, will be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, plus sum

Revelation 16:1-4KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

JESUS delivers the Wrath of God upon the world.

The Two Witnesses deliver TESTIMONY.

 

[ewq1938]

You will closely note in Rev 11:6, the (Two Witnesses) have power over the plague of water to blood

Big deal. That doesn't stop anything the Antichrist does or commands to happen. All the 2W are able to do is keep themselves alive long enough to finish their testimony then the AC has them killed.

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7 - please read this post (#235) until it sinks in... :

Your claim of a 3.5 year gap between Matthew 24:29 & 30 is a fairy tale

Luke 21:25-28 below is a parallel teaching of the exact same event, and defines the word (Immediately After) in Matthew 24:29

When these things (Begin) to come to pass isn't 3.5 years as you claim in (Error) its quickly, with the instruction to look up, redemption is nigh

Ok guys, we have seen the signs begin, keep your heads up for 3.5 years, the Lords coming, Big Smiles!

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

JESUS delivers the Wrath of God upon the world.

The Two Witnesses deliver TESTIMONY.

If you consider stopping the rain, turning water to blood, and bringing all plagues as often as they will (Testimony) then I guess your right

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

[GaryA]

Your claim of a 3.5 year gap between Matthew 24:29 & 30 is a fairy tale

Luke 21:25-28 below is a parallel teaching of the exact same event, and defines the word (Immediately After) in Matthew 24:29

When these things (Begin) to come to pass isn't 3.5 years as you claim in (Error) its quickly, with the instruction to look up, redemption is nigh

Ok guys, we seen the signs begin, keep your heads up for 3.5 years, Big Smiles!

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I cannot think of the proper term right now for this 'avoidance' technique - but - why can you not "deal with" what Matthew says?

It is still true even if Luke's account does not have the same time reference indicators ("immediately after", "and then", etc.).

Is that not unlike a child running to mamma to get permission for something daddy already said 'no' to?

 

[GaryA]

If you consider stopping the rain, turning water to blood, and bringing all plagues as often as they will (Testimony) then I guess your right

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

You are not seeing a big-enough picture. As a result of that, you are "twisting" the 'intent' of my words where 'pupose' is concerned.

 

[GaryA]

@Truth7t7 - please read post #235 until it sinks in...

 

[GaryA]

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

You must think that all of this will happen in a few minutes time...?

 

[Truth7t7]

I cannot think of the proper term right now for this 'avoidance' technique - but - why can you not "deal with" what Matthew says?

It is still true even if Luke's account does not have the same time reference indicators ("immediately after", "and then", etc.).

Is that not unlike a child running to mamma to get permission for something daddy already said 'no' to?

All Scripture, Including Luke 21:25-28, to clearly show you, your claim of a 3.5 year gap is in error

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

 

[GaryA]

You must think that all of this will happen in a few minutes time...?

You have to look at it from God's Timing - not man's...

 

[GaryA]

All Scripture, Including Luke 21:25-28, to clearly show you, your claim of a 3.5 year gap is in error

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

Luke agrees with Matthew.

 

[GaryA]

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

Yes He is!

Shout it from the mountain tops!

And - while you are at it - proclaim that - one day - He is personally going to come back and dispense the Wrath of God upon all the world.

It will not be the Two Witnesses that does it.

Keep studying...

 

[Truth7t7]

You must think that all of this will happen in a few minutes time...?

Matthew 24:32-33KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes He is!

Shout it from the mountain tops!

And - while you are at it - proclaim that - one day - He is personally going to come back and dispense the Wrath of God upon all the world.

It will not be the Two Witnesses that does it.

Keep studying...

Revelation 16:16KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[GaryA]

Your claim of a 3.5 year gap between Matthew 24:29 & 30 is a fairy tale

Guess again...

Luke 21:25-28 below is a parallel teaching of the exact same event, and defines the word (Immediately After) in Matthew 24:29

When these things (Begin) to come to pass isn't 3.5 years as you claim in (Error) its quickly, with the instruction to look up, redemption is nigh

Ok guys, we have seen the signs begin, keep your heads up for 3.5 years, the Lords coming, Big Smiles!

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

You have "mixed up" the context of the passages so that your comparison is out-of-context.

~

If you would compare the description in Matthew 24:29 to Revelation 8:7-12; 11:6 - you just might see that the Two Witnesses cause these things to happen after the end of the [Great] Tribulation.

 

[GaryA]

You are not seeing a big-enough picture.

You have to look at it from God's Timing - not man's...

You are not seeing a big-enough picture.

You have to look at it from God's Timing - not man's...

 

[GaryA]

@Truth7t7 - please read post #235 until it sinks in...

@Truth7t7 - please read post #235 until it sinks in...