The Resurrection and Funerals
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Scriptures would include such as the 5th commandment...Honor your Father and mother...
This is about participating in a worship started by Abraham and Sarah who were God's friends. You didn't start your own worship as God exists in and out of time...in order to be recognized for your worship you had to glom on to Abraham's worship. Living and behaving as Abraham and Sarah did. You dressed in proscribed ways, ate in proscribed ways, and said particular things on particular days.
This commandment wasn't so much about your birth parents as it was about a large, generations long worship of God.
This is about participating in a worship started by Abraham and Sarah who were God's friends. You didn't start your own worship as God exists in and out of time...in order to be recognized for your worship you had to glom on to Abraham's worship. Living and behaving as Abraham and Sarah did. You dressed in proscribed ways, ate in proscribed ways, and said particular things on particular days.
This commandment wasn't so much about your birth parents as it was about a large, generations long worship of God.
The quote from Psalms does not prove the 'outside of time' concept. Days and years are still measures of time. What evidence do you have that 'eternity' has anything to do with timelessness?
I see the word in Isaiah 57:13, and the Hebrew word there 'ad, has a gloss of 'perpetuity.' It is translated elsewhere 'forever.' What is the justification for saying it means 'outside of time'?
Some physicists, and Christian apologeticists talking about physics talk about nothingness, not even time, before the universe came into existence. But where does the Bible address the concept of time not existing? Whether there is any validity to the idea in physics or not, where does the Bible address it at all... without us reading the idea into a word without justification?
I see the word in Isaiah 57:13, and the Hebrew word there 'ad, has a gloss of 'perpetuity.' It is translated elsewhere 'forever.' What is the justification for saying it means 'outside of time'?
Some physicists, and Christian apologeticists talking about physics talk about nothingness, not even time, before the universe came into existence. But where does the Bible address the concept of time not existing? Whether there is any validity to the idea in physics or not, where does the Bible address it at all... without us reading the idea into a word without justification?
What is so difficult about answering my arguments, especially if you don't agree with them? You consistently and persistently avoid debate. This is a Forum, not an interrogation platform. But I will answer your question.
First, let's deal with the word "hell". It just does not appear in the Bible. It is a concept that men have when mixing the truth of God's retribution with human thinking. The idea originated in Nimrod's Babylon. What is in the Bible is THREE different concepts defined and named by THREE different words - (i) Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire, or perdition - a STATE of suffering, (ii) Hades (Gk.) or Sheol (Heb.) - the PLACE that the souls of dead men go to wait for resurrection, and (iii) Tartaroo - the PLACE where disobedient angels are banished to until they are sent to the Lake of Fire. We discuss the resurrection in this thread, so we only discuss point #2 - Hades.
From 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 we learn that in this body we groan, and when it is put off, and we are naked, we groan. So death is no solution to life's discomfort. In death, God's great and last enemy, all suffer. So, the God of all mercies, meets His own in death with a special section of Hades where His own are *comforted". He called it "Abraham's Bosom", and those who will enjoy this section of Hades in death, are "gathered to their people" after death. As it is the SOUL of man that is in Hades, the "comfort" is for the SOUL. But after Christ had graced Hades in that fateful Passover, its name is changed to "Paradise". That indicates that it is pleasurable to be there. Thus, Paul can write in Philippians 1:23; "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better."
The rest of men enter Hades with whatever they had in life - MINUS any pleasures that the BODY can bring. We all know that man in general is unhappy. Because he was designed as a vessel to contain God, a man who does not have an intimate relationship with God is basically unhappy. Psalm 16:11 says that ultimate joy is only in the presence of the Lord. By default, the absence of God is a terror. To combat this intrinsic unhappiness, man surrounds himself with distractions. He uses money, work, marriage, hobbies and quests to fill the gap in his life. Then comes death and separation from the body, and the man enters Hades void of God and WITHOUT any distractions. He suffers, he "groans".
But the narrative of Luke 16 tells more. The rich man called Abraham, "father", and Abraham answers, "son". That means that the rich man was an Israelite. And the Law of Moses said that he should have "shaken out his hand to the poor and needy" (Deut.15:7-8). Matthew 10:28 warns men that God can afflict the soul. So the Law-breaking rich man, not only "groans" in death, his SOUL is afflicted by God. His torment is doubled. But he must still face God's judgment, which according to Daniel 12:1-2, is after the Great Tribulation. He will be resurrected with the rest of Israel, but will live, in resurrection, with everlasting shame. So, although he does not face a formal judgment after death, he is tormented in Hades AND after the resurrection as a living man.
First, let's deal with the word "hell". It just does not appear in the Bible. It is a concept that men have when mixing the truth of God's retribution with human thinking. The idea originated in Nimrod's Babylon. What is in the Bible is THREE different concepts defined and named by THREE different words - (i) Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire, or perdition - a STATE of suffering, (ii) Hades (Gk.) or Sheol (Heb.) - the PLACE that the souls of dead men go to wait for resurrection, and (iii) Tartaroo - the PLACE where disobedient angels are banished to until they are sent to the Lake of Fire. We discuss the resurrection in this thread, so we only discuss point #2 - Hades.
From 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 we learn that in this body we groan, and when it is put off, and we are naked, we groan. So death is no solution to life's discomfort. In death, God's great and last enemy, all suffer. So, the God of all mercies, meets His own in death with a special section of Hades where His own are *comforted". He called it "Abraham's Bosom", and those who will enjoy this section of Hades in death, are "gathered to their people" after death. As it is the SOUL of man that is in Hades, the "comfort" is for the SOUL. But after Christ had graced Hades in that fateful Passover, its name is changed to "Paradise". That indicates that it is pleasurable to be there. Thus, Paul can write in Philippians 1:23; "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better."
The rest of men enter Hades with whatever they had in life - MINUS any pleasures that the BODY can bring. We all know that man in general is unhappy. Because he was designed as a vessel to contain God, a man who does not have an intimate relationship with God is basically unhappy. Psalm 16:11 says that ultimate joy is only in the presence of the Lord. By default, the absence of God is a terror. To combat this intrinsic unhappiness, man surrounds himself with distractions. He uses money, work, marriage, hobbies and quests to fill the gap in his life. Then comes death and separation from the body, and the man enters Hades void of God and WITHOUT any distractions. He suffers, he "groans".
But the narrative of Luke 16 tells more. The rich man called Abraham, "father", and Abraham answers, "son". That means that the rich man was an Israelite. And the Law of Moses said that he should have "shaken out his hand to the poor and needy" (Deut.15:7-8). Matthew 10:28 warns men that God can afflict the soul. So the Law-breaking rich man, not only "groans" in death, his SOUL is afflicted by God. His torment is doubled. But he must still face God's judgment, which according to Daniel 12:1-2, is after the Great Tribulation. He will be resurrected with the rest of Israel, but will live, in resurrection, with everlasting shame. So, although he does not face a formal judgment after death, he is tormented in Hades AND after the resurrection as a living man.
went to a funeral last month, for my cousin, it was at the chapel at cemetery and there was no preaching there but there was some scripture references, it seems all funeral directors say this at every funeral Ive been to:
usually from ecclesiastes about time to be born and a time to die
Mourners often write to Rest in Peace, till we meet again...which is a reference to the resurrection even if its not direct.
at christian funerals theres more though it depends on the preacher, some skirt the issue and say 'a better place' some preach the gospel though I think theres lots of preaching and mention of ressurrection in hymns like Amazing Grace or How Great thou Art. Most commonly sung at funerals.
usually from ecclesiastes about time to be born and a time to die
Mourners often write to Rest in Peace, till we meet again...which is a reference to the resurrection even if its not direct.
at christian funerals theres more though it depends on the preacher, some skirt the issue and say 'a better place' some preach the gospel though I think theres lots of preaching and mention of ressurrection in hymns like Amazing Grace or How Great thou Art. Most commonly sung at funerals.
Take time off and do a word study on the word "destroy". You'll soon see that it does not mean what you indicate. Here's a hint. If a ship sinks, we say; "It is destroyed". But is it still a ship? Here's another. The world "that was" before the flood, was destroyed by the flood. How could Noah step out onto it again? (2nd Pet.3:6)
He will rule on the earth (Dan.2:35). The prophets predict it, and Zechariah 14:16 says that the surviving ENEMIES of Armageddon must go up to Jerusalem annually to worship Him. Crushing a clay pot is not annihilating it. It is changing its form. The earth is given to the meek and the Lord is the meekest. The earth is made by the Lord Jesus FOR Himself. He is heir to ALL. Man is made to rule the earth (Gen.1:26-28).
Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.
There will be no Millennium on the earth, a false claim.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Luke 17:28-30KJV
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Truth7t7: Jesus Christ, My Lord And Savior, Amen!
There will be no Millennium on the earth, a false claim.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Luke 17:28-30KJV
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Truth7t7: Jesus Christ, My Lord And Savior, Amen!
The verses in Revelation that I posted say otherwise. That there will be a millennium. That Jesus will rule with the martyred saints and He will rule with a rod of iron.
All the verses you’ve quoted besides 2 Peter have nothing to do with anything you’re talking about.
2 Peter talks about the end and talks about the new age..with a new heaven and new earth yet leaves out that there will be a millennium in between. Jesus’ second coming and the new heaven’s and new earth.
You should really look at the verses in Revelation again as they speak quite clearly of a 1000 years reign of Jesus. You shouldn’t just forget about or leave out verses you don’t like and that messes up your own beliefs. It’s clear in the Bible that there will be a millennial reign of Jesus.
All the verses you’ve quoted besides 2 Peter have nothing to do with anything you’re talking about.
2 Peter talks about the end and talks about the new age..with a new heaven and new earth yet leaves out that there will be a millennium in between. Jesus’ second coming and the new heaven’s and new earth.
You should really look at the verses in Revelation again as they speak quite clearly of a 1000 years reign of Jesus. You shouldn’t just forget about or leave out verses you don’t like and that messes up your own beliefs. It’s clear in the Bible that there will be a millennial reign of Jesus.
'How many years' implies time, not the physics or science-apologetics idea idea of there being space with no time.
That word translated 'eternity' is also translated as 'forever' which implies time that goes on and on and on. Forever and 'outside time' are not the same concept. If time keeps going on and on forward or backward, there time exists.
That word translated 'eternity' is also translated as 'forever' which implies time that goes on and on and on. Forever and 'outside time' are not the same concept. If time keeps going on and on forward or backward, there time exists.
Do you believe that God is omniscience? God is never surprised and knows everything from beginning to end. How can God know the future with exact precision and be limited by time?
Actually God occupies all of time all of the time. Past, present and future God is there all the time. There is no way to explain this characteristic of God except in terms to which man can relate. Without time man cannot comprehend eternity past or eternity future. God is without beginning and without end.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Actually God occupies all of time all of the time. Past, present and future God is there all the time. There is no way to explain this characteristic of God except in terms to which man can relate. Without time man cannot comprehend eternity past or eternity future. God is without beginning and without end.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
