TONGUES false teaching.

[SophieT]

You seem intent on disagreeing with almost everything I post. You need to understand that what you are doing is not promoting what you want to believe by arguing with what I post as I am not making stuff up neither am I posting my personal opinions.

I want to assure you "Personally" that I do not sit here and post things to make you angry. I have researched EVERTHING I say concerning Bible doctrines and what you are reading is actually coming from men and women who have taught the Word of God.

So as for your position on "women spoke in tongues at Pentecost".

YOUR assumption is that the 120 spoke on Pentecost. Certainly, women were among the 120 just as Acts 1:14-15 says that they were.

But women did not speak in tongues on Pentecost because only the twelve apostles spoke in tongues on Pentecost. Here's why I say this.

Notice the beginning of Acts 1:1-2 ............
"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

If you will go back to my very 1st post on this thread you will see that this is exactly what I said Mark 16:14 says!!!!

In Acts 1: 1-2 Luke is here introducing commandments that Jesus gave to His apostles, not the 120.

Those commandments were.....
"that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (verses 4-8).

Now, when you read those actual words do you not see what I have been saying????

This, of course, is speaking about what was to occur in Acts 2 and then continuing for the rest of their lives as they brought the Gospel throughout the world. These commandments were given to the apostles.

We then read that the apostles returned to Jerusalem and went to the upper room where the apostles dwelt (verses 12-13). In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, just as is recorded in Acts 2, including the women, and prayed (verse 14).
Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

For YOU or anyone else to say that women spoke in tongues is simply READING INTO the Word of God what YOU want it to say.

Now, do you still want to say that it is "I" who is in denial???

That is a very big lot of blowing smoke

So you disagree with the scripture that plainly states ALL in the upper room were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues

Really then, it would seem your disagreement is with the scripture itself.

 

[SophieT]

I never said any such thing or even suggested it my dear!

I said the exact opposite.

Do you think that by saying something I did not say makes your position look better to YOU????

ALL I have done is what I have done my whole adult life......read the Word of God and comment on what IT SAYS.

Well yes you did.

The other post I just responded to in fact. You indicated that you do not believe the women prayed even though scripture states all in the upper room began to pray when the Holy Spirit descended upon them.

I am not your dear.

 

[SophieT]

Roger......I have been on several Christian forums in my journey. I was invited to join this one by one of the members here.

Now maybe it is just me, and maybe it is because it is that I am new "here", but from what I have seen, I am amazed at the lack of Bible understanding I have seen exhibited here so far.

I am grateful that you have shown yourself to be a Bible believing Christian and I hope that you will stay here and help those who need to hear BIBLE DOCTRINE!

As for me.......It is to soon to tell!

smh

 

[Major]

That was then when God's Word was being delivered.
But now all of God's Word has been delivered.

And so these are the questions:

Do we need any more miracles?
Are not the miracles recorded in God's Word sufficient?
Or do we need more miracles and new miracles in order to believe?

Actually, the need to see miracles is the proof that FAITH is not needed.

Miracles do not increase faith!!!

Most of those who saw God’s miracles upon Egypt and during the wilderness wanderings did not believe (Heb. 3:7-12).
Most who witnessed Jesus Christ’s incomparable miracles did not believe (John 6:66).
By the day of Pentecost, there were only 120 disciples in the upper room.
Where were the thousands who had witnessed Christ’s miracles firsthand?

The gospel does not have to be perpetually authenticated by signs and wonders. It is solidly established upon the greatest sign ever accomplished, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Those who do not believe this sign as recorded in the Holy Scriptures will not believe any sign they see with their own eyes. That is what the Bible tells us.

 

[Major]

smh

Can you please "Interpret" your post as it seems to be said in tongues.

 

[Major]

Well yes you did.

The other post I just responded to in fact. You indicated that you do not believe the women prayed even though scripture states all in the upper room began to pray when the Holy Spirit descended upon them.

I am not your dear.

Excuse the compliment.

Please post the # that validates your comment.

What I posted was that the Scriptures DO NOT SAY that women spoke. They may have prayed, we do not know as the Scriptures do not say.

What I said was......." In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, including the women, and prayed (verse 14). Nothing says that the women prayed aloud. "

 

[Scribe]

Compounded errors do make for correct doctrine. I'm just reading what is written and not adding to it any quasi doctrine.

You are judging me as blind yet it is you that takes great liberty in corrupting the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You seem intent on disagreeing with almost everything I post. You need to understand that what you are doing is not promoting what you want to believe by arguing with what I post as I am not making stuff up neither am I posting my personal opinions.

I want to assure you "Personally" that I do not sit here and post things to make you angry. I have researched EVERTHING I say concerning Bible doctrines and what you are reading is actually coming from men and women who have taught the Word of God.

So as for your position on "women spoke in tongues at Pentecost".

YOUR assumption is that the 120 spoke on Pentecost. Certainly, women were among the 120 just as Acts 1:14-15 says that they were.

But women did not speak in tongues on Pentecost because only the twelve apostles spoke in tongues on Pentecost. Here's why I say this.

Notice the beginning of Acts 1:1-2 ............
"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

If you will go back to my very 1st post on this thread you will see that this is exactly what I said Mark 16:14 says!!!!

In Acts 1: 1-2 Luke is here introducing commandments that Jesus gave to His apostles, not the 120.

Those commandments were.....
"that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (verses 4-8).

Now, when you read those actual words do you not see what I have been saying????

This, of course, is speaking about what was to occur in Acts 2 and then continuing for the rest of their lives as they brought the Gospel throughout the world. These commandments were given to the apostles.

We then read that the apostles returned to Jerusalem and went to the upper room where the apostles dwelt (verses 12-13). In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, just as is recorded in Acts 2, including the women, and prayed (verse 14).
Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

For YOU or anyone else to say that women spoke in tongues is simply READING INTO the Word of God what YOU want it to say.

Now, do you still want to say that it is "I" who is in denial???

Peter said that the Daughters and the Handmaidens spoke in tongues. How can you not see that?

120 spoke in tongues, women were among them, Peter pointed out the women as proof that it was the prophesy of Joel because the daughters and the handmaidens were included.

Just like later when the Gentiles speaking in tongues were proof that the gentiles were included.

God made his will known for the inclusion of the women at this event and Peter pointed it out.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[SophieT]

Excuse the compliment.

Please post the # that validates your comment.

What I posted was that the Scriptures DO NOT SAY that women spoke. They may have prayed, we do not know as the Scriptures do not say.

Blatantly untrue. You have actually switched from women were not in the upper room, to ok they were there, but they did not pray.

Now, you are trying to say they may have prayed.

You seem to be getting quite agile with the backpeddling. However, we can all read what you have said and what you say now.

 

[VARob]

Compounded errors do make for correct doctrine.

No wonder you think you have correct doctrine.

 

[Major]

Peter said that the Daughters and the Handmaidens spoke in tongues. How can you not see that?

120 spoke in tongues, women were among them, Peter pointed out the women as proof that it was the prophesy of Joel because the daughters and the handmaidens were included.

Just like later when the Gentiles speaking in tongues were proof that the gentiles were included.

God made his will known for the inclusion of the women at this event and Peter pointed it out.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

You are saying WHAT YOU WANT the Scriptures to say.....do YOU not see that. Everyone else does!!!

We then read that the apostles returned to Jerusalem and went to the upper room where the apostles dwelt (verses 12-13). In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, including the women, and prayed (verse 14). Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

Women were there but there are NO Scriptures that say the women did speak in tongues on Pentecost because only the twelve apostles spoke in tongues on Pentecost .

All you are doing is repeating your "wants" without any Scripture to validate what you are saying.

The quote Peter made from the prophet Joel was about the "Last Days" and Pentecost was certainly not the last days.

 

[Major]

Blatantly untrue. You have actually switched from women were not in the upper room, to ok they were there, but they did not pray.

Now, you are trying to say they may have prayed.

You seem to be getting quite agile with the backpeddling. However, we can all read what you have said and what you say now.

From the original post #610 as posted by me..............

YOUR assumption is that the 120 spoke on Pentecost. Certainly, women were among the 120 just as Acts 1:14-15 says that they were.

But women did not speak in tongues on Pentecost because only the twelve apostles spoke in tongues on Pentecost. Here's why I say this.

Notice the beginning of Acts 1:1-2 ............
"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

If you will go back to my very 1st post on this thread you will see that this is exactly what I said Mark 16:14 says!!!!

In Acts 1: 1-2 Luke is here introducing commandments that Jesus gave to His apostles, not the 120.

Those commandments were.....
"that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (verses 4-8).

Now, when you read those actual words do you not see what I have been saying????

This, of course, is speaking about what was to occur in Acts 2 and then continuing for the rest of their lives as they brought the Gospel throughout the world. These commandments were given to the apostles.

We then read that the apostles returned to Jerusalem and went to the upper room where the apostles dwelt (verses 12-13). In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, just as is recorded in Acts 2, including the women, and prayed (verse 14).
Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

For YOU or anyone else to say that women spoke in tongues is simply READING INTO the Word of God what YOU want it to say.

I think we are getting on the silly side of reality now!

 

[SophieT]

I guess when you are desperate to remain the Bible teacher you believe yourself to be, there is no way you are going to admit your error (s)

Acts2 has been pointed out to you by numerous people in this thread, myself being one of them.

You have a deep disregard for the truth that has been shown you regarding the women in the upper room and it is evident you do not view women with very much respect, but rather attempt to be dismissive as in your congregation, women are not allowed to utter one word.

For YOU or anyone else to say that women spoke in tongues is simply READING INTO the Word of God what YOU want it to say.

The word of God says it and you cannot admit it to be true because it would cause chaos in your make believe world where women are not allowed to say anything at all in a church.

I have the impression that you may consider yourself a teacher. If so, you are a false teacher and cannot even admit the truth of scripture for fear of blowing up your entire belief system wherein women must shut up because you say so.

This is not something you learned from scripture. It is actually your own misogny getting the better of you.

I pity the women who cross your path and over whom you believe you have authoritiy. You keep women from Christ with your nonsense. No woman or any person needs to go through a man to be heard by God. Eventually your little house of matchsticks will collapse because no one can live under such bullying forever.

 

[SophieT]

No wonder you think you have correct doctrine.

Sometimes the truth comes out in spite of their little attempts at portraying the only truthful people here

 

[Scribe]

You are saying WHAT YOU WANT the Scriptures to say.....do YOU not see that. Everyone else does!!!

We then read that the apostles returned to Jerusalem and went to the upper room where the apostles dwelt (verses 12-13). In that room, they apparently met with the other disciples, including the women, and prayed (verse 14). Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

Women were there but there are NO Scriptures that say the women did speak in tongues on Pentecost because only the twelve apostles spoke in tongues on Pentecost .

All you are doing is repeating your "wants" without any Scripture to validate what you are saying.

The quote Peter made from the prophet Joel was about the "Last Days" and Pentecost was certainly not the last days.

I just gave you the scripture. Your ignoring it.
Everyone understands it. Peter said "THIS IS THAT" so it was.

 

[SophieT]

Nothing says that the women prayed aloud.

Nonsense. Nothing says they didn't. Since the passage says EVERYONE received the Holy Spirit with tongues, you cannot say otherwise.

The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
(Joel 2:28-32; John 14:15-26; John 16:5-16; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Do you have that missing in your Bible?

Does the word 'all' mean something different to you then it does to everyone else in the world?

Understand that the entire world can read that whether or not they even believe in God and each one will understand that every person spoke in tongues.

How is it that a supposed Christian man does not see that? The reason is because said Christian man has his own idea about women and it is not biblical. YOU desire women to be silent. God does not.

Don't point to a specific occasion in the Corinthian church wherein Paul addressed unlearned women and told them not to call out but rather refer to their husbands at home. That is not a blanket statement for all women for all time. It could not be when women gave prophecies and did speak in tongues as Acts 2 plainly describes.

You have a problem it would seem. Actually two. You have a problem with women and a problem with God because of the first problem

 

[Scribe]

Roger......I have been on several Christian forums in my journey. I was invited to join this one by one of the members here.

Now maybe it is just me, and maybe it is because it is that I am new "here", but from what I have seen, I am amazed at the lack of Bible understanding I have seen exhibited here so far.

I am grateful that you have shown yourself to be a Bible believing Christian and I hope that you will stay here and help those who need to hear BIBLE DOCTRINE!

As for me.......It is to soon to tell!

I am sure that your interpretations were rejected where ever you have posted them if they are anything like what you have tried to present on this site. You should probably go to bible college if you really want to learn the bible because you're so far departed from sound heremeneutics that frankly it is bizarre and you don't seem to blush at the flagrant errors. You need some professors that you will respect to correct you since you do not seem able to comprehend things on your own.

I am going to assume that you really want to know the bible. You don't have to resort to dishonest interpretation in order to believe that tongues are not for today. You can choose that position without wrangling scriptures beyond recognition to support your opinions.

 

[notuptome]

Peter said that the Daughters and the Handmaidens spoke in tongues. How can you not see that?

120 spoke in tongues, women were among them, Peter pointed out the women as proof that it was the prophesy of Joel because the daughters and the handmaidens were included.

Just like later when the Gentiles speaking in tongues were proof that the gentiles were included.

God made his will known for the inclusion of the women at this event and Peter pointed it out.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

The scripture you provided does not say that the women spoke in tongues. If does say that at a future time Jewish women will prophecy and Jewish men will see visions. This will be at the fulfillment of Joel 2 and will include wonders in the earth and in heaven. Signs that were not present at Pentecost.

You cry hermeneutics yet take no care to actually read what is written in the scripture. You have a predetermined conclusion that you will cite even if the scriptures teach the direct opposite.

Good luck with that theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[fredoheaven]

Your arguments are weak, women are assumed included in the word "brethren" throughout the bible.

All 120 spoke the women included. One of the reasons that we can be sure that the women were included was when Peter said that this was the fulfillment of the prophesy of Joel that "your sons and your DAUGHTERS shall prophesy, and that he would pour out his Spirit on your HANDMAIDENS" Peter is in effect pointing to these very women who were among those prophesying and speaking in tongues before all these witnesses.
Case Closed. Bible Study over.

It might be the 108 were not identified speakers as Luke said in verse 14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven" + the testimony of those "devout men verse 5 and how they heard "every man" v. 6 and 8 excluding the women. The Joel prophecy in Acts 2 is at it's own beginning and this not justify women speaking in the other tongues (Language).

 

[notuptome]

Roger......I have been on several Christian forums in my journey. I was invited to join this one by one of the members here.

Now maybe it is just me, and maybe it is because it is that I am new "here", but from what I have seen, I am amazed at the lack of Bible understanding I have seen exhibited here so far.

I am grateful that you have shown yourself to be a Bible believing Christian and I hope that you will stay here and help those who need to hear BIBLE DOCTRINE!

As for me.......It is to soon to tell!

Well our Pentecostal friends are to be likened to the seeds that were sown and fell in among the thorns. They are not able to grow to fruition because of the thorns that encumber the ground in which they are planted.

Show forth the truth because there are many who look into the forums that never participate. They may be open to the truth of Gods word even if those who claim to know it will not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VARob]

From my understanding, Major is correct on some things he believes, and dead wrong on others.

The "upper room" is where the apostles "abode" (Acts 1:13). They lived there. In that culture, women would not be permitted into the living quarters of men they were not related to. Also, houses in Jerusalem were small. The upper room would not have been large enough for 120 people to congregate. The place where they "all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women" (Acts 1:14) would have been the Temple (Luke 24:53).

Likewise, on the day of Pentecost, the place where "they were all with one accord in one place" (Acts 2:1) would have been the Temple. That is where people met and prayed. The "they" in that verse refers back to Acts 1:26: "..he [Matthias] was numbered with the eleven apostles". So the twelve were with one accord in the Temple. The sound from heaven of a rushing mighty wind filled all the house (the Temple) where they (the twelve) were sitting (Acts 2:2). Everyone would have heard the sound. The cloven tongues as of fire appeared to them (the twelve) and sat upon each of them (the twelve) (Acts 2:3). And they (the twelve) were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues (Acts 2:4). At the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit, only the twelve received, and only the twelve spoke in tongues. Major's comments in an earlier post about all the ones who spoke were Galilean was correct. The twelve were from Galilee.

In Acts 2, there is not any information as to whether anyone else spoke in tongues or not. We do know that 3000 people believed after hearing Peter's sermon (Acts 2:41), but the Bible simply does not say whether they spoke in tongues or not.

So I do agree with Major that only the twelve received the initial ourpouring of the gift of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and that only the twelve initially spoke in tongues.

But I COMPLETELY disagree with him in his understanding of 1 Cor 12-14, with his belief that the "sign gifts" ceased when we "got the completed Bible", and his belief that women were not permitted to speak in tongues. God wants ALL Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5, 37, 39). The manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY Christian (1 Cor 12:7).

I think that earlier in this thread someone asked why we should speak in tongues, what is it good for.

1) God wants us to do it. (1 Cor 14:5)
2) It edifies you. (1 Cor 14:4; Jude 20)
3) When spoken aloud in the church and interpreted, it edifies the church. (1 Cor 14:5)
4) You are speaking to God divine secrets. (1 Cor 14:2)
5) It is prayer in the Spirit. (1 Cor 14:14-15)
6) When you speak in tongues, you are giving thanks well. (1 Cor 14:17)

I speak in tongues, and will continue to do so until I die or until Jesus Christ returns, whichever comes first