TONGUES false teaching.

[Lisamn]

Paul said:
Let all things be done unto edifying. 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

There is still a need for that because it is EDIFYING

Paul said:
5I would that ye all spake with tongues, (he never changed his mind)
There is still a need for it

Paul said:
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
There is still a need for that

Pauls said:
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also
There is still a need for that. Because it Edifies us.

There is more of a need for it today than there was in the 1st century. We need to pray like never before. Watch and Pray is the most repeated admonition about the coming of the Lord.
We all agree that we need to pray more in the light of his Coming and as we see things getting ready to come to a close.
If praying and watching is the order of the day how much more do we need a divine gift called praying in the spirit (tongues) like Paul said he did.

Oh yes! we do really, really need it. Pray that you may receive this gift and also that you may interpret. Pray also that you may prophesy. Pray also that you might be filled with the Holy Ghost to boldly preach the Gospel to everyone you come in contact with that supernatural empowering of the Holy Spirit.

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I guess I don’t understand how its edifying. I mean I only have that one example to go off of. I didn’t know what the pastors wife was saying..she didn’t know and no one around us knew..so how is that edifying?

If I read the Bible..do I need to speak in tongues or prophecy? My Bible is written in English..not that old times version that can’t be understood all that well..but modern language...why would I need to speak in tongues? I also can read the books of Daniel and Revelation..etc and know prophecy...why do I need the gift of it? I may not know what will happen tomorrow..but I know enough prophecy to watch out for what comes next on the prophetic stage.

The last one..to be filled with the Holy Spirit to boldly preach the gospel..now that is useful.

 

[Scribe]

I balk at "supposed to". At Pentecost, they did understand because they had already learned the languages. In 1 Corinthians, Paul teaches that it is better when people understand what is being said, because they are thereby edified. Without interpretation, only the speaker is edified, though even that is a good thing.


One might ask that of any of the gifts. Is there a need for healing, prophecy, or miracles? That depends entirely on one's perspective. For the mother with a child dying of cancer, healing is needed, but for the person with a minor headache, an analgesic pill will suffice. For a father facing continued unemployment, prophetic exhortation and encouragement is needed, while for the person who exceeded his budget by $20, a little restraint will sort it. For a family facing unrighteous eviction, a miracle is needed, while the person with a flat tire in the rain might just need to get out and fix it.

I can think of situations where a message delivered in tongues and then interpreted would be beneficial, but I can't think of a "need" for it; the Holy Spirit might think otherwise. I can certainly think of many people who need to build themselves up in the faith (Jude 20).

Many think that Jude was talking about praying in tongues based on 1 Cor 14:14

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

As you can see from the context, "praying, singing and blessing in the spirit" here meant tongues.

20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Now it might not be conclusive but from the perspective cultural (church vernacular of the day) hermeneutic to suggest that Jude meant this in the same way that Paul did. Was Jude saying praying in tongues? I think so. I base it on 1 Cor 14:14. Can I be 100% dogmatic? No. But I think 1 Cor 14:14 gives me more reason to say that he was than to say that he was not.

 

[Lisamn]

I balk at "supposed to". At Pentecost, they did understand because they had already learned the languages. In 1 Corinthians, Paul teaches that it is better when people understand what is being said, because they are thereby edified. Without interpretation, only the speaker is edified, though even that is a good thing.


One might ask that of any of the gifts. Is there a need for healing, prophecy, or miracles? That depends entirely on one's perspective. For the mother with a child dying of cancer, healing is needed, but for the person with a minor headache, an analgesic pill will suffice. For a father facing continued unemployment, prophetic exhortation and encouragement is needed, while for the person who exceeded his budget by $20, a little restraint will sort it. For a family facing unrighteous eviction, a miracle is needed, while the person with a flat tire in the rain might just need to get out and fix it.

I can think of situations where a message delivered in tongues and then interpreted would be beneficial, but I can't think of a "need" for it; the Holy Spirit might think otherwise. I can certainly think of many people who need to build themselves up in the faith (Jude 20).

The people at pentecost were actually surprised they all could understand...saying what does this mean?

I’m sorry..but is there a gift of healing? We have fake healers..but not real ones that I’ve ever heard of. So..that’s not a thing anymore.

Miracles...like what?

I think God can use anyone to build up another in the faith and he doesn’t need to use anyone speaking in tongues to do it. I’ve had church members build me up in the faith and we all spoke english...no need for tongues here.

 

[Scribe]

I guess I don’t understand how its edifying. I mean I only have that one example to go off of. I didn’t know what the pastors wife was saying..she didn’t know and no one around us knew..so how is that edifying?

If I read the Bible..do I need to speak in tongues or prophecy? My Bible is written in English..not that old times version that can’t be understood all that well..but modern language...why would I need to speak in tongues? I also can read the books of Daniel and Revelation..etc and know prophecy...why do I need the gift of it? I may not know what will happen tomorrow..but I know enough prophecy to watch out for what comes next on the prophetic stage.



The last one..to be filled with the Holy Spirit to boldly preach the gospel..now that is useful.

Sounds like the wife was edifying herself, speaking to herself and to God.

If she was addressing the church there should have been interpretation after, if she is praying to herself and to God it was something you ignore. If you could not tell which then she was probably being way too loud. LOL

Just keep studying about what New Testament prophecy was about. It is not the same as an OT prophet. It is a gift of exhortation and comfort, and sometimes foretelling of events also. There are examples in Acts. Prophesy means different things in different contexts. Philip had 4 daughters that prophesied when the church met in his house. Pauls example of what it looked like in 1 cor 14 shows a picture of an unbeliever coming in to the meeting and hearing a prophesy and falling down at his feet and declaring that God is in him of a truth. Another example in Acts has someone warning the church of a coming famine so that they can prepare to give to the poor churches that will be effected by it.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

One thing I know,43 years ago in my prayer, I asked for the gift of speaking in other tongues and it was given, the same today as it was then

Many claim the gift of tongues dosent exist today?

Telling me that, is like telling the blind man that was healed by Jesus, that he really couldn't see, Smiles

But how can we believe you unless you demonstrate this for us.

 

[Lisamn]

Sounds like the wife was edifying herself, speaking to herself and to God.

If she was addressing the church there should have been interpretation after, if she is praying to herself and to God it was something you ignore. If you could not tell which then she was probably being way too loud. LOL

Just keep studying about what New Testament prophecy was about. It is not the same as an OT prophet. It is a gift of exhortation and comfort, and sometimes foretelling of events also. There are examples in Acts. Prophesy means different things in different contexts. Philip had 4 daughters that prophesied when the church met in his house. Pauls example of what it looked like in 1 cor 14 shows a picture of an unbeliever coming in to the meeting and hearing a prophesy and falling down at his feet and declaring that God is in him of a truth. Another example in Acts has someone warning the church of a coming famine so that they can prepare to give to the poor churches that will be effected by it.

No, she did it all the time and she wasn’t speaking to herself but loud enough for me to hear..and she didn’t talk about what she said..she didn’t seem to know..so she wasn’t really edifying herself either.

I just don’t think those gifts are in use anymore honestly...but I will prayerfully consider that opinion.

 

[Scribe]

No, she did it all the time and she wasn’t speaking to herself but loud enough for me to hear..and she didn’t talk about what she said..she didn’t seem to know..so she wasn’t really edifying herself either.

I just don’t think those gifts are in use anymore honestly...but I will prayerfully consider that opinion.

Some people just don't know how to act decent and in order in the church.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

You make comments about people you do not know nor do you know what you are speaking about. Those who are used in the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not under judgement as you suggest. The only spiritual adultery would be you. Because you have to use pagan doctrine to disprove the word of God .

first off:
1. No Pentecostal doctrine about the gifts of the Holy Spirit came from any other place but the bible
2. Your issue is wit the error of those you hate K. Copeland, and other like him. Most of us have already acknowledged HIS error and have left him a lone for the Lord to deal with him as he will with you.

3. You have only one verse in 1cor `3:8 by which you hold your "Doctrine" that tongues have ceased yet, you have been proven wrong but your pride and arrogance will not allow you to concede. And that ok, you are enable to be corrected. I expect after saying this to you , I can imagine you will result to more judgement on me and other who dare to disagree with you. Merry Christmas

Your avatar with a cross in the American flag reminded me of Dominionism. Are you in favor of Dominionism?

What is Dominionism: The theory or doctrine that Christians have a divine mandate to assume positions of power and influence over all aspects of society and government.

 

[Dino246]

The people at pentecost were actually surprised they all could understand...saying what does this mean?

They got their answer when Peter preached.

I’m sorry..but is there a gift of healing? We have fake healers..but not real ones that I’ve ever heard of. So..that’s not a thing anymore.

Frankly, your reasoning is deeply flawed: "We have fake healers, not real ones, so it's not a thing." That's circular reasoning. I am aware of several cases of divine healing. If there is fakery, doesn't that suggest they are faking something real? People create counterfeits of real things, not non-real things.

Miracles...like what?

I suggest you do some reading. Loren Cunningham's Is That Really You, God? and Lee Strobel's The Case for Miracles for starters.

I think God can use anyone to build up another in the faith and he doesn’t need to use anyone speaking in tongues to do it. I’ve had church members build me up in the faith and we all spoke english...no need for tongues here.

Did you miss the point about "tongues" not being merely speaking in other learned languages? Whether you think that "speaking in tongues" is needed or not is beside the point. It's explained in Scripture, it's a gift of the Holy Spirit for the Church, and I will submit to God's greater wisdom as to what is needed.

 

[Scribe]

Some people just don't know how to act decent and in order in the church.

No, she did it all the time and she wasn’t speaking to herself but loud enough for me to hear..and she didn’t talk about what she said..she didn’t seem to know..so she wasn’t really edifying herself either.

I just don’t think those gifts are in use anymore honestly...but I will prayerfully consider that opinion.

When I first read about all this I was in jail. No church background or knowledge. I had never seen anything to turn me off.

I just read about it in the bible and it was exciting to me. I had been born again and was growing strong in the Lord everyday and I was hungry for all that God had for me.

I believed everything I read, the resurrection of Jesus was real and He was alive right now.

They spoke in tongues, I believed it.

It appeared to me that everyone got it when I read Acts so I asked for it and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues.

I never once thought to myself when I was reading about it. "I don't think I need that." Or, "I don't think God is still doing that today." I was exited and praying in faith for these things to happen to me. Then I found out that there were teachings that said we should not expect it and that surprised me. I rejected that idea immediately. I was going to expect it.

A chaplain visited me and he laid hands on me and prayed with me and I was baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues.

I did not understand why people could read the same scriptures I read and not have the same expectation and faith and the same experience that I had.

Then I had to ask myself "Is it because I had not been tainted or heard these explanations about how it was not for today?" Or "Did I have a different reaction to these things because I saw them as positives and others see them as negatives?" I just could never understand deprecating the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I would be so disappointed if I could only read about them but not have them. That would be tragic.

So in conclusion I believe the reason I had a different experience when learning about them is because of FAITH. It really is that simple.

 

[Lisamn]

When I first read about all this I was in jail. No church background or knowledge. I had never seen anything to turn me off.

I just read about it in the bible and it was exciting to me. I had been born again and was growing strong in the Lord everyday and I was hungry for all that God had for me.

I believed everything I read, the resurrection of Jesus was real and He was alive right now.

They spoke in tongues, I believed it.

It appeared to me that everyone got it when I read Acts so I asked for it and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues.

I never once thought to myself when I was reading about it. "I don't think I need that." Or, "I don't think God is still doing that today." I was exited and praying in faith for these things to happen to me. Then I found out that there were teachings that said we should not expect it and that surprised me. I rejected that idea immediately. I was going to expect it.

A chaplain visited me and he laid hands on me and prayed with me and I was baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues.

I did not understand why people could read the same scriptures I read and not have the same expectation and faith and the same experience that I had.

Then I had to ask myself "Is it because I had not been tainted or heard these explanations about how it was not for today?" Or "Did I have a different reaction to these things because I saw them as positives and others see them as negatives?" I just could never understand deprecating the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I would be so disappointed if I could only read about them but not have them. That would be tragic.

So in conclusion I believe the reason I had a different experience when learning about them is because of FAITH. It really is that simple.

I appreciate that..the only reason I haven’t totally said it’s bogus is because the Bible talks about it..which is why maybe I should pray about it.

What makes it hard to take serious though is all the fake healers and prophets out there. I do think that God can work miracles in peoples lives but does he have to use healers to heal and if not are they needed?
Does God really have prophets nowadays or are they fake as well? There was a pastor/prophet that was getting popular with the election and his prophecy where I think he said there would be an invasion of Chinese troops..however if you listen to how he interpreted his dreams..one wonders how he came up with that.
Also I may have too much common sense to be able to understand these gifts.

 

[Lisamn]

They got their answer when Peter preached.


Frankly, your reasoning is deeply flawed: "We have fake healers, not real ones, so it's not a thing." That's circular reasoning. I am aware of several cases of divine healing. If there is fakery, doesn't that suggest they are faking something real? People create counterfeits of real things, not non-real things.


I suggest you do some reading. Loren Cunningham's Is That Really You, God? and Lee Strobel's The Case for Miracles for starters.


Did you miss the point about "tongues" not being merely speaking in other learned languages? Whether you think that "speaking in tongues" is needed or not is beside the point. It's explained in Scripture, it's a gift of the Holy Spirit for the Church, and I will submit to God's greater wisdom as to what is needed.

Sure but in the beginning they didn’t know what was happening.

I don’t think I have circular reasoning if it’s only the fake healers that get the attention then are there any real ones around? You’d think they’d be really popular especially in the time of COVID.

I think I’ll pray about this and see where this goes..but thanks for the suggestions.

The only reason I haven’t said it’s all bogus is because it is in scripture. I still maintain if I’m in church and we all speak English then why do we need to speak in tongues..but again God’s ways are higher than my way.

 

[UCA4J]

Judge much? You don't know her, you can hardly judge anyone's motives because you are not God and here you are on a forum doing those very things.

I suppose next you will tell us you have the gift of discernment

are you following the conversation ?

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938 thinks speaking in tongues is speaking in French that you learned in High School,

No, he doesn't think that. Today's "tongues" is made up gibberish.

He thinks that interpret means to Translate from French to English because you are bilingual.

To interpret means to translate. That's obvious unless someone wants to turn "interpret" into something more than it is so it all sounds so spiritual and impressive when the entire thing is fake.

You don't even need to be saved.

This is a flat out lie. Do you want me to accuse you of teaching no one needs to be saved?

His interpretation is so far off topic he is not able to understand the subject.

That applies to yourself, not to me.

Paul could have just said "If there is no interpreter don't speak in tongues" But he says "Let him SPEAK (in tongues) to himself and to God" which paints a different picture then just DONT SPEAK.

 

[UCA4J]

I hope you have a microphone then. Don't leave home without one.

Do you give consideration to the things you are posting here? I ask, because the quote above from you, is utter nonsense.

Do we need a microphone when we pray? Does God not hear us when we pray without a microphone?

Did any OT prophet have a microphone?

Does everyone in Australia carry a mic so they can be somebody?

you seem rather judgemental.
Are you gonna judge me for saying that ?

 

[ewq1938]

I seem to have missed this gem.

Define not speak using their mouth. How else should a person speak if they are not use their mouth? You can pray silently or out loud and God is not offended by either so why are you?

You seem to have reached conclusions that are nowhere to be found in the Bible. That, would be defined as false teaching.

Paul said to be silent. Don't call him a false teacher. I have only repeated what he taught.

 

[ewq1938]

The tongues spoken at Pentecost are the ones inspired by the Holy Spirit. The other tongues that Paul speaks about are human "tongues" that need to be translated.

If it's from the HS, no translating is needed because the tongue is understood perfectly by those that hear it.

What do you think speaking in tongues is supposed to do then? Give a new revelation?

Did the Bible say that when people started speaking in tongues that others around them knew what they were saying? Looks like it was languages everyone knew...

Acts‬ ‭2:1-12‬
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?”
‭‭‭​

 

[Dino246]

The tongues spoken at Pentecost are the ones inspired by the Holy Spirit. The other tongues that Paul speaks about are human "tongues" that need to be translated.

That doesn't make sense. People who are speaking in foreign languages are not speaking "with their spirits" (per 14:14); they are speaking with their minds. I addressed this already, but you seem to have missed it.

If it's from the HS, no translating is needed because the tongue is understood perfectly by those that hear it.

Where is that in Scripture?

Instead of giving just a few words in response, perhaps you could explain in clear, plain language what, according to you, constitutes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit that Paul called "speaking in unknown tongues", and separately, what constitutes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit that Paul called "interpretation of tongues". Don't conflate them, because Paul didn't.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

He also said in 1 Corth. 13 that "TONGUES would CEASE".

What miracles can we point to in the last 100 years that we can say are valid?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

For some reason, many people on this site seem to want to argue. I do not intend to do so. ALL I have doen is post what the Bible says.

Tongues as seen in the Bible was the gift of HEARING......Not speaking by all the people. The Bible says, not the old Major but the Bible clearly says that "Tongues were spoken by the JEWISH APOSTLES to JEWISH believers:

Read Acts 2:4-8...........
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. 5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Aren't all these who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? "

If we receive and accept Mark 16:14-17 as a true record of our Lord’s words, the APOSTLES had, a few days or weeks before the Day of Pentecost, and THEY heard the promise that since THEY that believed should “speak with new tongues” with new powers of utterance.
Source: Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers .

If we read what is actually written in the Word of God it says in verse #7 that .............
"Utterly amazed, they asked: "Aren't all these who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears THEM (Apostles) in our native language? "

The Apostles who were gathered in Acts 2 spoke in their OWN Greek language and the JEWS gathered from all over the world heard THEM, the Apostles in their OWN language.

Now, can you please explain why so many people demand to speak in tongues which from my experiences are nothing more than unitelligable utterances?????

WHY in the face of clear words written in the English language do so many insist that this kind of experience is Biblical when obviously it is not.??????

You are right in questioning 'speaking in tongues'.
How does it edify today?
When you see some "speaking in tongues" it must be questioned and tested.

Paul admonished us to 'test everything and hold fast what is good'.

Here is someone that can be tested.