If a Sabbath is forced, Will you keep Sunday holy?
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that's exactly right 
i don't see that the Bible treats "the law" -- all the commandments given with the covenant in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy & Numbers -- as divisible. in fact i see that the Bible treats them explicitly as indivisible.
my position is that the whole idea of 'moral vs. civil vs. ceremonial' etc. and the idea that somehow the decalogue transcends Moses and is unaffected by the death of God Himself on a cross to free us is completely human-origin tradition supporting a works-based slavery to a carnal imitation of righteousness posing as salvation. i don't believe the Bible supports that at all.
i think that righteousness is independent of the law - including the 10 commandments. including the greater commandments, which aren't even part of the decalogue. i think that God tested and proved the Israelites to be a stubborn, ungrateful, disobedient and unbelieving people when He took them out of Egypt -- and gave them exactly the law that such a people deserve, in order to teach them both their need for Christ and what God, in the person of Christ, does to justify and save them. the law is humiliating and designed for lawbreakers. including the 10 commandments. if you have to be told, 'have no other god but YHWH,' then from square one you know you are not righteous. and when you are told, daily provide blood atonement from now to all of your generations, you know right away there isn't any hope that righteousness can come from the law. that's not what it's for. it's to make you fear God and look for His mercy.
the law isn't good news.
people say, oh post, are you saying it's OK to murder? no. i am saying that the righteous don't need a law to tell them that. and they don't need a law to tell them that God is the One who sanctifies ((see again Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12)). and that is the gospel: that the Son of God became man and gave His life in order to provide for us a righteousness not of ourselves - a sanctification & justification not of ourselves - but of Himself. my position is that that righteousness is an eternal righteousness, and Christ is not righteous because He obeys some higher law He is enslaved to, but because He is I AM, the only law-giver. He said, "a new commandment" and the old passed away for those who hear Him. righteousness is righteousness. God doesn't change. but it doesn't have anything to do with being under the law - not even being under the 10 commandments or the actual basis of the law, the statutes in Deuteronomy 6 & Leviticus 19 ((no accident they aren't in Exodus 20)) - righteousness has to do with faith, with walking humbly before God, loving mercy & justice. whoever loves, fulfills the righteousness of the law, apart from the letter.
you & i have both been around here a long while -- you know i can support all of that from scripture. it'll take a lot of typing lol.
and you know too, our beloved brother @mailmandan probably already has posted or soon will post all the scripture necessary to arrive at those conclusions in a thread like this
((he's really good at that!!))
i don't see that the Bible treats "the law" -- all the commandments given with the covenant in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy & Numbers -- as divisible. in fact i see that the Bible treats them explicitly as indivisible.
my position is that the whole idea of 'moral vs. civil vs. ceremonial' etc. and the idea that somehow the decalogue transcends Moses and is unaffected by the death of God Himself on a cross to free us is completely human-origin tradition supporting a works-based slavery to a carnal imitation of righteousness posing as salvation. i don't believe the Bible supports that at all.
i think that righteousness is independent of the law - including the 10 commandments. including the greater commandments, which aren't even part of the decalogue. i think that God tested and proved the Israelites to be a stubborn, ungrateful, disobedient and unbelieving people when He took them out of Egypt -- and gave them exactly the law that such a people deserve, in order to teach them both their need for Christ and what God, in the person of Christ, does to justify and save them. the law is humiliating and designed for lawbreakers. including the 10 commandments. if you have to be told, 'have no other god but YHWH,' then from square one you know you are not righteous. and when you are told, daily provide blood atonement from now to all of your generations, you know right away there isn't any hope that righteousness can come from the law. that's not what it's for. it's to make you fear God and look for His mercy.
the law isn't good news.
people say, oh post, are you saying it's OK to murder? no. i am saying that the righteous don't need a law to tell them that. and they don't need a law to tell them that God is the One who sanctifies ((see again Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12
)). and that is the gospel: that the Son of God became man and gave His life in order to provide for us a righteousness not of ourselves - a sanctification & justification not of ourselves - but of Himself. my position is that that righteousness is an eternal righteousness, and Christ is not righteous because He obeys some higher law He is enslaved to, but because He is I AM, the only law-giver. He said, "a new commandment" and the old passed away for those who hear Him. righteousness is righteousness. God doesn't change. but it doesn't have anything to do with being under the law - not even being under the 10 commandments or the actual basis of the law, the statutes in Deuteronomy 6 & Leviticus 19 ((no accident they aren't in Exodus 20)) - righteousness has to do with faith, with walking humbly before God, loving mercy & justice. whoever loves, fulfills the righteousness of the law, apart from the letter. you & i have both been around here a long while -- you know i can support all of that from scripture. it'll take a lot of typing lol.
and you know too, our beloved brother @mailmandan probably already has posted or soon will post all the scripture necessary to arrive at those conclusions in a thread like this
((he's really good at that!!))
GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU AS GOD SEES WHAT IS GOOD FOR EACH ONE OF YOU SINCERELY William, Bud
GOD bless all of you as GOD sees what is good for each one of you sincerely William .Bud ,for those capital letters
France putting the Papacy in prison were he died, the deadly wound that the Papacy GOT, That separated church and state, And does not have the power anymore till the deadly wound is completely Healed, AND HE is already church and state AGAIN, and will have the power to start persecuting again and killing very soon, GOD HELP us to SEE this is fixing to happen again,
The name OF the Papacy that he did wear on his head, and how to count his number
State power = the sword, And he was put in prison, like the BIBLE says, In captivity Rev 13:10
Satan working through A MAN trying to stop GOD'S people from Keeping GOD'S HOLY Sabbath, Satan tries to force PEOPLE to stop keeping GOD'S Sabbath, GOD does not force, HE gives US choice, That shows us that the Sunday laws ARE of Satan,
That already are laws, OF the U.S.A. All they is start enforceing them
GOD bless all of you as GOD sees what is good for each one of you sincerely William .Bud ,for those capital letters
France putting the Papacy in prison were he died, the deadly wound that the Papacy GOT, That separated church and state, And does not have the power anymore till the deadly wound is completely Healed, AND HE is already church and state AGAIN, and will have the power to start persecuting again and killing very soon, GOD HELP us to SEE this is fixing to happen again,
The name OF the Papacy that he did wear on his head, and how to count his number
State power = the sword, And he was put in prison, like the BIBLE says, In captivity Rev 13:10
Satan working through A MAN trying to stop GOD'S people from Keeping GOD'S HOLY Sabbath, Satan tries to force PEOPLE to stop keeping GOD'S Sabbath, GOD does not force, HE gives US choice, That shows us that the Sunday laws ARE of Satan,
That already are laws, OF the U.S.A. All they is start enforceing them
I always thought the reason Saturday was blessed was because God loves the people He created, and it is best for us to have a day from our labors and remember God. Also to think of the heavenly rest Christ gives us from our sins. There is usually a literal plus a spiritual meaning in all God does.
I'd love to hear why you think God blessed this day.
I'd love to hear why you think God blessed this day.
When did I say that I am opposed to the Lord giving us rules that are ways to love? Since the entire old covenant law has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no obligation to love? Absolutely not! God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) This does not mean we are under old covenant law. People who continue to push the law constantly point to the 10 commandments from the old covenant law yet disregard the passages of scripture that I cited in this post and in post #284.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-keep-sunday-holy.196116/page-15#post-4432485
The 4th commandment under the law of Moses is what this is mainly about with law pushers. References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Law pushers cannot seem accept this and prefer to remain under old covenant law (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment under the law of Moses). Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-keep-sunday-holy.196116/page-15#post-4432485
The 4th commandment under the law of Moses is what this is mainly about with law pushers. References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Law pushers cannot seem accept this and prefer to remain under old covenant law (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment under the law of Moses). Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
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Faith Is to OBEY. Not just the Sabbath, But ALL of GOD's Commandments And HIS HOLY WORD.
2 THESS 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The truth is GOD's WORD And to LOVE IT is to obey What IT SAYS
{unrighteousness = Sin = Disobeying GOD }
2 THESS 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
{This is saying if want and love our sin, God is Going to let us be deceived, And be lost in our Sins }
2 THESS 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Telling Us that WE hold on to our sins which is unrighteousness, THAT WE will be Damned Which is to be lost,
2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
[This is people that say that we Sin every Day and cant go with out committing sin, And we can't as long as we live and do what we want, But if we are living in the Spirit, WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT COMMITTING SINS, This is A man that has COME to the Knowledge of THE TRUTH, And knows that we will be SAVED through OBEDIANCE to our faith which is to turn away from our SINS.
2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [which is death]
2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[This is saying to us that after we are saved and clean to turn from our faith and start committing sins again that it is going to be worse for US, then if we never had been saved in the JUDGEMENTS,
2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
[For them to be washed the blood had to be covering their sins, But this is saying that they are back filthy again, And that the sin is not cover no more}
2 THESS 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The truth is GOD's WORD And to LOVE IT is to obey What IT SAYS
{unrighteousness = Sin = Disobeying GOD }
2 THESS 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
{This is saying if want and love our sin, God is Going to let us be deceived, And be lost in our Sins }
2 THESS 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Telling Us that WE hold on to our sins which is unrighteousness, THAT WE will be Damned Which is to be lost,
2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
[This is people that say that we Sin every Day and cant go with out committing sin, And we can't as long as we live and do what we want, But if we are living in the Spirit, WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT COMMITTING SINS, This is A man that has COME to the Knowledge of THE TRUTH, And knows that we will be SAVED through OBEDIANCE to our faith which is to turn away from our SINS.
2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [which is death]
2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[This is saying to us that after we are saved and clean to turn from our faith and start committing sins again that it is going to be worse for US, then if we never had been saved in the JUDGEMENTS,
2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
[For them to be washed the blood had to be covering their sins, But this is saying that they are back filthy again, And that the sin is not cover no more}
The power He gives is the same power Jesus received from John the Baptist and then conferred to the 12, and they conferred to the 70, and onward, this is the "eklesia" or church that He came to establish.
We are not to hold to an outward form of godliness focused on ritual and dates.
Some of the inmates I supervised had such strongholds of erroneous belief it was referred to by the psychologists as as "concrete thinking", I believe that may be what scripture refers to as a "hardening of the heart", where so much effort has been invested in wrong belief and thinking it can no longer be reached with truth.
I fully believe you may respond with another copy and paste of misunderstood scripture.
best wishes
We are not to hold to an outward form of godliness focused on ritual and dates.
Some of the inmates I supervised had such strongholds of erroneous belief it was referred to by the psychologists as as "concrete thinking", I believe that may be what scripture refers to as a "hardening of the heart", where so much effort has been invested in wrong belief and thinking it can no longer be reached with truth.
I fully believe you may respond with another copy and paste of misunderstood scripture.
best wishes
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The bible makes it clear that all scripture is relevant. Regarding the Old and New testaments, it was man who divided these two testaments, as well as designating the books, chapters, and verses. You cannot comply with the two greatest commandments if you break the 10 commandments. To mention a couple, I would say that those pertaining to murder and adultery do indeed really matter, as well as the other 8, all of which were written on stone with the finger of God. Jesus went to the synagogue many times and read from what are now considered books of the Old Testament.
Yes there must have been a special reason. God put a special blessing in the 7th day. He made it a Holy day. God said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
That was the day God rested from His awesome work of creation.
It is interesting that the commandment was given to Isreal, but not included in the commandments to the gentiles.
That doesn't mean we are not allowed to keep it.
Thete is definitely a big blessing on the Sabbsth. I kept it fir a long while and lived doing so. I can't remember having felt that blessing keeping the first
day.
Paul tells us not to let anyone judge us according to which day we keep holy. You just have to be convinced in your own heart what is right, that is where He looks.
I have been non-denominational for a very long time, but am feeling convicted to start keeping the Sabbath again.
I believe, as with everything else, we should study it for ourselves and ask The Holy Spuroy to guide us. Then follow our conviction, because then we are where God wants us to be. God has His people in many different places and always has a perfect reason for that.
That was the day God rested from His awesome work of creation.
It is interesting that the commandment was given to Isreal, but not included in the commandments to the gentiles.
That doesn't mean we are not allowed to keep it.
Thete is definitely a big blessing on the Sabbsth. I kept it fir a long while and lived doing so. I can't remember having felt that blessing keeping the first
day.
Paul tells us not to let anyone judge us according to which day we keep holy. You just have to be convinced in your own heart what is right, that is where He looks.
I have been non-denominational for a very long time, but am feeling convicted to start keeping the Sabbath again.
I believe, as with everything else, we should study it for ourselves and ask The Holy Spuroy to guide us. Then follow our conviction, because then we are where God wants us to be. God has His people in many different places and always has a perfect reason for that.
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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
This is plain enough A child could understand it, and very hard to be misunderstood, unless Satan has us deceived into believing that we can keep committing and be saved, especially When YESUAH TELLS us unless we repent, we will perish, and to say that we can continue in sin and still be saved, would make YESUAH A liar, And YESUAH IS no liar, If YESUAH was A liar, HE couldn't be our SAVOIR, to continue in SIN is not repent, And that is the first thing we are told to do to be SAVED,
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
THIS makes it very plain that we haft to repent before we can be SAVED, And I know you can probably twist it into something else, like this scripture says,
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. { LOOK this up WREST means that they are twisting, the Scriptures,
3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
This is plain enough A child could understand it, and very hard to be misunderstood, unless Satan has us deceived into believing that we can keep committing and be saved, especially When YESUAH TELLS us unless we repent, we will perish, and to say that we can continue in sin and still be saved, would make YESUAH A liar, And YESUAH IS no liar, If YESUAH was A liar, HE couldn't be our SAVOIR, to continue in SIN is not repent, And that is the first thing we are told to do to be SAVED,
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
THIS makes it very plain that we haft to repent before we can be SAVED, And I know you can probably twist it into something else, like this scripture says,
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. { LOOK this up WREST means that they are twisting, the Scriptures,
3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.