Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

I see that you don't distinguish between the nation of Israel and individual Jews, maybe that is why you don't understand my argument.

What evidence do you have that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

What evidence do you have that the gospel and three epistles and the apocalypse were written to the nation of Israel.

The epistles and apocrypha were written to churches, not a nation.

I don’t understand your argument because it includes the false premise that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

No reason to accept that premise whatsoever

 

[OIC1965]

What evidence do you have that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

What evidence do you have that the gospel and three epistles and the apocalypse were written to the nation of Israel.

The epistles and apocrypha were written to churches, not a nation.

I don’t understand your argument because it includes the false premise that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

No reason to accept that premise whatsoever

Where do we have record of Johns words.

Mostly in his writings

So for your argument to stand, his writings would have to be solely written to the physical nation of Israel.

Doesn’t preach, sir.

 

[Guojing]

What evidence do you have that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

What evidence do you have that the gospel and three epistles and the apocalypse were written to the nation of Israel.

The epistles and apocrypha were written to churches, not a nation.

I don’t understand your argument because it includes the false premise that John only wrote to the nation of Israel

No reason to accept that premise whatsoever

I already gave Galatians 2:9 to you.

The prophetic timetable was that the nation of Israel is to be saved first thru acknowledging that Jesus is their promised Messiah (John 20:31), before the gentile nations could be reached (Zechariah 8)

Since Israel as a nation never did acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah, John could not have moved on to gentiles.

Its a simple and straightforward argument to me.

 

[throughfaith]

So why did seperate Paul from his mother's womb? Because his parents were so special? No. SO it doesn't matter that he was seperated from his mother's womb. It was a calling that was not based on anything he or anyone else did. His apostleship was purely by God's Soveriegn choice.

And it's ludicrous to say that God chose Paul to be an apostle before he was foreknown as one of God's elect. Paul would necessarily have to be elect to be an apostle. God wasn't like, "hey, I'm not sure if this guy is going to be saved, but I think I'll call him to be an apostle and hope for the best." That is silly.

So it was already known by God that Paul would be saved. He would have to be saved to be an apostle. And his apostleship was based on God's Soveriegn choice and nothing else.

But God knew that he would be a believer before the foundation of the world. Try to deny that and you are an open theist

Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

 

[throughfaith]

God chose Paul before Paul ever thought of choosing God. In his mother's womb. How do you get around that?

Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

 

[throughfaith]

Was God's choice of Paul based on His foreknowledge of Paul or purely and entirely on God's Sovereign CHOICE.

Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

 

[throughfaith]

Which do you want verses for?

a. God knew you before you were born
b. That He called you
c. That He has a purpose for you.

Which one are you having trouble with?

Are you Paul ?

 

[throughfaith]

Which do you want verses for?

a. God knew you before you were born
b. That He called you
c. That He has a purpose for you.

Which one are you having trouble with?

" I see jeezas walking that ole water in tha bible and turning water ina wine ,and i say ME TOO , oh yes i claim that for me too . in Jesus name , SPLOSH !!!

 

[throughfaith]

So God didn’t know Paul as a future adopted son until he got saved even though Paul was already a son by the new birth, but God didn’t foreknow him or predestine him until he got saved, yet he seperated him to be an apostle from his mother’s womb.

Huh?

I bet you claim Lydia's account for yourself also?
" Oh yeah Lord i claim my Healing , i see the apostles raising people from death and fixing the lame and i say Lord MEE TO !!! ,oh yes Lordy, I am David , i am elijah and I am moses , I claim the anointing , i claim my blessing . Dont touch thy Lords aaanoieted !! "

 

[throughfaith]

Doesn't answer the question, Hoss.

You do know that Jesus did not exercise all of His Divine prerogatives, right? Like the fact that He said He didn't know the day or the hour of His return.

I see your approach to the Scriptures is to take one occurance or one verse and extroplate that to include at other times without the bible actually saying so . Your modelling inductive reasoning perfectly .

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

Yes (agreed).


[2 Timothy 1, vv.10-11--Paul saying...]

"and now having been made manifest by [/by means of] the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, having abolished death and having brought to light life and immortality through [/by means of] the gospel to which I was appointed herald and apostle and teacher."

 

[OIC1965]

Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

You’re the one who said “ NO ONE is predestined until they’re saved.” I showed you were wrong.

I never said everyone is saved the same way as Paul. I just demonstrated that you put God in an artificial man made box.

And yes, God does foreknow His children. Because He’s God, and He does know who will be saved, because He’s God, and He doesn’t need to wait until someone’s born to know how He’s going to use them, because He’s God.

These things are obvious.

 

[OIC1965]

I see your approach to the Scriptures is to take one occurance or one verse and extroplate that to include at other times without the bible actually saying so . Your modelling inductive reasoning perfectly .

No, my approach is to not squeeze God into some mold that has to wait around until someone’s born to know they will exist, doesn’t need to wait around until someone is saved to foreknow them, had no idea how He was going to use His vessels and needs to wait until they get saved to decide how He’s going to use them, chooses people to ministry before He foreknows them as children, etc

 

[OIC1965]

Yes (agreed).


[2 Timothy 1, vv.10-11--Paul saying...]

"and now having been made manifest by [/by means of] the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, having abolished death and having brought to light life and immortality through [/by means of] the gospel to which I was appointed herald and apostle and teacher."

Did God know the plans He had for you before you got saved, or did He create them when you believed?

 

[OIC1965]

L

I bet you claim Lydia's account for yourself also?
" Oh yeah Lord i claim my Healing , i see the apostles raising people from death and fixing the lame and i say Lord MEE TO !!! ,oh yes Lordy, I am David , i am elijah and I am moses , I claim the anointing , i claim my blessing . Dont touch thy Lords aaanoieted !! "

I claim none of those things. I merely claim that the One True God foreknows all things, including who will be saved and how He will use them, and He works all things after the council of His Will.

This is not about me glorifying man. This is about you reducing God to someone who is utterly dependent on us and our actions to do or know anything.

 

[throughfaith]

L


I claim none of those things. I merely claim that the One True God foreknows all things, including who will be saved and how He will use them, and He works all things after the council of His Will.

This is not about me glorifying man. This is about you reducing God to someone who is utterly dependent on us and our actions to do or know anything.

You are still yet to answer . I agree God knows. Weve established that. God is not bound by time. He probably sees things, past present and future at a glance. My point is ,what does that have to do with us ?

 

[OIC1965]

" I see jeezas walking that ole water in tha bible and turning water ina wine ,and i say ME TOO , oh yes i claim that for me too . in Jesus name , SPLOSH !!!

So which one are you having trouble with? A, B, or C

Because rejecting any one of the three denies Gods Omniscience and Sovereignty.

 

[throughfaith]

L


I claim none of those things. I merely claim that the One True God foreknows all things, including who will be saved and how He will use them, and He works all things after the council of His Will.

This is not about me glorifying man. This is about you reducing God to someone who is utterly dependent on us and our actions to do or know anything.

Are you saying God has DETERMINED all things. Or do you just keep saying God knows .

 

[throughfaith]

Does God know who will be saved or not because he has determined their fate ? I agree he knows.

 

[OIC1965]

You are still yet to answer . I agree God knows. Weve established that. God is not bound by time. He probably sees things, past present and future at a glance. My point is ,what does that have to do with us ?

Before you were born, God knew you would be born, knew you would be saved, knew how He was going to use you, knew He was going to adopt you, knew all these things

But then had to wait around for you to believe to make those choices?

If He knew all these things, doesn’t it follow that the choices He made were made before you chose?