1 Cor 5:8, Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. leavened bread will spoil, but the unleavened bread will not spoil, neither will the wine spoil, as the grape juice will. They are both more pure.
A Divided Church?
- Thread starter WalkerAllan
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There is no mention of wine in 1 Cor 5:8.
Also the use of leaven is as a metaphor for sin. Unleavened bread is a metaphor of our new selves no longer slaves to sin.
It matters not whether leavened or unleavened bread is on the table. It matters not whether wine or juice is on the table.
These requirements that you state point to the Church of England in which the Particular Baptists never left completely.
What we don't want is Body and Blood re sacrificed on an altar.
Also the use of leaven is as a metaphor for sin. Unleavened bread is a metaphor of our new selves no longer slaves to sin.
It matters not whether leavened or unleavened bread is on the table. It matters not whether wine or juice is on the table.
These requirements that you state point to the Church of England in which the Particular Baptists never left completely.
What we don't want is Body and Blood re sacrificed on an altar.
The problem is that there appear to be very few in the church institutions who are able to shepherd the newborn babes in Christ beyond the “first principals.” They teach the basic doctrines (that is good) but leave it there. The unanswered question remains: “where to from here”?
I feel that this is usually because that many of the “shepherds” have themselves grown up in those environments and have not been able to advance beyond these boundaries to any significant degree.
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In the Anglican Communion (of which the Church of England and the Episcopal Church of the United States of America are members), the use of wine is obligatory in the celebration of Holy Communion;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacra...can Communion (of,kind (i.e., either just the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacra...can Communion (of,kind (i.e., either just the
I believe the term for that kind of ministry is a Seekers church. Just baby food, no meat and potatos. Well I think that kind of ministry is good for a short time but people are often complacent and stay 'cuz it's easy. Unfortunately it's easy money for greedy preachers. I think if they don't have the time and resources, should encourage those in their flock who are ready. To find another ministry and / or school and start growing up, It's easy to just preach the sermon on the mount. John 3:16 and take time for alter calls.
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Thanks for the response
The only mention of (It) referring to (Beast) is in Daniel Chapter 7, and it clearly interprets this as a (Kingdom) seen below.
Gods words clearly identify the (Little Horn/Beast) as a man, eyes, mouth speaking, (His) literal human body destroyed at judgement.
Neb you cant run from the very clear scripture presented below, a human man, in a human body (His).
Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Daniel 7:23KJV
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
The only mention of (It) referring to (Beast) is in Daniel Chapter 7, and it clearly interprets this as a (Kingdom) seen below.
Gods words clearly identify the (Little Horn/Beast) as a man, eyes, mouth speaking, (His) literal human body destroyed at judgement.
Neb you cant run from the very clear scripture presented below, a human man, in a human body (His).
Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Daniel 7:23KJV
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
I agree, pretty much what's going on, talk about nothing, socialize, have coffee and a donut, go home and do it again in a week.
No scripture or preaching regarding sin and repentance, hang out in the feel good Mega churches, as the leaders bank accounts grow, no accountability whatsoever $$$
Come and Go and nobody knows your name.
2 Peter 2:1-3KJV
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
No scripture or preaching regarding sin and repentance, hang out in the feel good Mega churches, as the leaders bank accounts grow, no accountability whatsoever $$$
Come and Go and nobody knows your name.
2 Peter 2:1-3KJV
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
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So you answered this yourself.
The horn that spake is a man.
The beast in which the horn was attached to is a kingdom.
But then let us look at Daniel 7:17
Daniel 7:17 KJV
These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
How can the 4th beast be both a kingdom and a king?
ANSWER: Because there is both an earthly truth and a spiritual truth to the beast. BINGO.
The earthly truth of the 4th beast is that it is a kingdom.
The spiritual truth of the 4th beast is that it is powered by Satan, a king, a him.
So let us look at Daniel 7:11 again.
Daniel 7:11
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
So the beast was slain, and his body destroyed.
CONCLUSION: This refers not to an earthly truth about a kingdom. This refers to a spiritual truth about Satan. This refers to Satan being spiritually slayed. BINGO!
The horn that spake is a man.
The beast in which the horn was attached to is a kingdom.
But then let us look at Daniel 7:17
Daniel 7:17 KJV
These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
How can the 4th beast be both a kingdom and a king?
ANSWER: Because there is both an earthly truth and a spiritual truth to the beast. BINGO.
The earthly truth of the 4th beast is that it is a kingdom.
The spiritual truth of the 4th beast is that it is powered by Satan, a king, a him.
So let us look at Daniel 7:11 again.
Daniel 7:11
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
So the beast was slain, and his body destroyed.
CONCLUSION: This refers not to an earthly truth about a kingdom. This refers to a spiritual truth about Satan. This refers to Satan being spiritually slayed. BINGO!
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This is a silly quesiton I think.
I think the head of the Roman Church is the antichrist. I have stated that the Church of England is not separated from the Church of Rome. So why would I be Anglican?
NO! I consider myself only as a follower of Christ Jesus.
I do attend a church affiliated to the Southern Baptist Convention.
More recently I have been trying to learn and understand the Baptist history. If I had to categorize myself in the Baptist history I favor the concept of General Baptist.
See my post # 124.
I think the head of the Roman Church is the antichrist. I have stated that the Church of England is not separated from the Church of Rome. So why would I be Anglican?
NO! I consider myself only as a follower of Christ Jesus.
I do attend a church affiliated to the Southern Baptist Convention.
More recently I have been trying to learn and understand the Baptist history. If I had to categorize myself in the Baptist history I favor the concept of General Baptist.
See my post # 124.
I never said the little horn was satan. The little horn I said was a man. This man (earthly truth) however is a child of Satan (spiritual truth). This is a good test you did against Daniel 11:36-37. And you will see I interpret holds to the test. Test it more. We have to understand there is both earthly and spiritual truth when interpreting prophesy like in Daniel. We have to be extremely careful on how we interpret what is earthly truth and what is spiritual truth. But all this can be tested. It all has to match with no contradictionm not even one, created.
Test, test and test. Trust no one. Of course do not trust me. But trust the word. That it is perfect and that no contradiction in it exists.
Test, test and test. Trust no one. Of course do not trust me. But trust the word. That it is perfect and that no contradiction in it exists.
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Thanks for the response, I didnt notice your background, sorry for the false identity.
I would find myself favoring the Baptist lineage also
I read a tract one, (The Trail of Blood) seen below, pretty interesting showing g the Baptist Lineage.
Wikipedia: The Trail of Blood, a 1931 book by American Southern Baptist minister James Milton Carroll (1852-1931), comprising a collection of five lectures he gave on the history of Baptist churches, which he presented as a succession from the first Christians.
Timeline from 'The Trail of Blood
See also: Proto-Protestantism
The full title is The Trail of Blood: Following the Christians Down through the Centuries: or, The History of Baptist Churches from the Time of Christ, Their Founder, to the Present Day.[1] Carroll presents modern Baptists as the direct successors of a strain of Christianity dating to apostolic times, reflecting a Landmarkist view first promoted in the mid-nineteenth century by James Robinson Graves (1820-1893). Graves had started an influential movement in Tennessee and the western states. The Landmark controversy divided many Baptists, and ultimately led to the formation of the American Baptist Association in 1924, as well as of Gospel Missions[citation needed] and unaffiliated churches. This is a belief called Baptist successionism.
Carroll claims that modern Baptists descend from such earlier groups as:
James Edward McGoldrick wrote a response to Carroll's work called Baptist Successionism which gave researched opposition to the theory of "Baptist successionism."[citation needed]
As of 2010 Ashland Avenue Baptist Church in Lexington, Kentucky held the copyright to Carroll's book.[
I would find myself favoring the Baptist lineage also
I read a tract one, (The Trail of Blood) seen below, pretty interesting showing g the Baptist Lineage.
Wikipedia: The Trail of Blood, a 1931 book by American Southern Baptist minister James Milton Carroll (1852-1931), comprising a collection of five lectures he gave on the history of Baptist churches, which he presented as a succession from the first Christians.
Timeline from 'The Trail of Blood
See also: Proto-Protestantism
The full title is The Trail of Blood: Following the Christians Down through the Centuries: or, The History of Baptist Churches from the Time of Christ, Their Founder, to the Present Day.[1] Carroll presents modern Baptists as the direct successors of a strain of Christianity dating to apostolic times, reflecting a Landmarkist view first promoted in the mid-nineteenth century by James Robinson Graves (1820-1893). Graves had started an influential movement in Tennessee and the western states. The Landmark controversy divided many Baptists, and ultimately led to the formation of the American Baptist Association in 1924, as well as of Gospel Missions[citation needed] and unaffiliated churches. This is a belief called Baptist successionism.
Carroll claims that modern Baptists descend from such earlier groups as:
- the Waldensians (founded in the 1170s, based in the Cottian Alps)
- the Cathari (or Novatianists) (founded in the 3rd century)
- the Paulicians (founded c. 650 in Armenia)
- the Donatists (originating in North Africa in the 4th century)
James Edward McGoldrick wrote a response to Carroll's work called Baptist Successionism which gave researched opposition to the theory of "Baptist successionism."[citation needed]
As of 2010 Ashland Avenue Baptist Church in Lexington, Kentucky held the copyright to Carroll's book.[
One. No mention of the church in my bibles.....
(CEV) Some Pharisees asked Jesus when God's kingdom would come. He answered, "God's kingdom isn't something you can see.
(KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(KJV+) AndG1161 when he was demandedG1905 ofG5259 theG3588 Pharisees,G5330 whenG4219 theG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 should come,G2064 he answeredG611 themG846 andG2532 said,G2036 TheG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 comethG2064 notG3756 withG3326 observation:G3907
(LITV) And being questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God comes, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
(MKJV) And being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation.
(YLT) And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, 'The reign of God doth not come with observation;
Two. Yes.
(CEV) Some Pharisees asked Jesus when God's kingdom would come. He answered, "God's kingdom isn't something you can see.
(KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(KJV+) AndG1161 when he was demandedG1905 ofG5259 theG3588 Pharisees,G5330 whenG4219 theG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 should come,G2064 he answeredG611 themG846 andG2532 said,G2036 TheG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 comethG2064 notG3756 withG3326 observation:G3907
(LITV) And being questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God comes, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
(MKJV) And being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation.
(YLT) And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, 'The reign of God doth not come with observation;
Two. Yes.