A saving faith vs a dead faith

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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Agreed, maybe just to stress, our faith is not our own doing, it is the gift of God - ie. if you have faith in Christ Yeshua, dying for our sins on the cross, your beliefs in such, had been granted to you by God, before the foundation of the world.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)


8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Do you hold to ' regeneration precedes faith ' ?
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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The new testament only begins with the death of Christ. So that would be after Mathew 27. To make doctrinal statements without taking this into account causes confusion.
By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Jesus' life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Jesus' life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Do you agree thats when the new testament begins ? At his death ? Hebrews 9 .16-17
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Do you agree thats when the new testament begins ? At his death ?
No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).

When the disciples asked Jesus......what work must we do to be saved?
Jesus gave a one answer - "BELIEVE"

John 6: 28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The new testament only begins with the death of Christ. So that would be after Mathew 27. To make doctrinal statements without taking this into account causes confusion.
Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
 

Ogom

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Aug 22, 2020
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ogom.co
Do you agree thats when the new testament begins ? At his death ? Hebrews 9 .16-17

the New Testament is Called the New Testament.

there are also older New Testaments from before the alterations down through time by lying scribes and their like.

do you wish to become a lying scribe as well?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Hebrews 9
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16¶For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23¶It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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the New Testament is Called the New Testament.

there are also older New Testaments from before the alterations down through time by lying scribes and their like.

do you wish to become a lying scribe as well?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16¶For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23¶It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Why are you thinking I'm nullifying? We need to understand his words .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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the New Testament is Called the New Testament.

there are also older New Testaments from before the alterations down through time by lying scribes and their like.

do you wish to become a lying scribe as well?
Do you think the new testament is that heading in your bible ,starting with ' Matthew ' lol ??
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Luke 17
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Are you following this today? Yes or no ? If not why not ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Mat 10 .5
These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them, saying, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
Are you following these words of Jesus today ? If not why not ?
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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New testament. Rom 3
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27¶Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1) of works?
2) law of faith

notice the contrast?

Faith is not ' works ' .
Then read rom 4 and see it contrasted. Works and faith . OPPOSITE .
I think I do not understand what you are trying to point out.
What have works or law to do with salvation, justification, righteousness, sanctification, et all.??
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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The new testament only begins with the death of Christ. So that would be after Mathew 27. To make doctrinal statements without taking this into account causes confusion.
So you just dismiss the word of Christ? because they were before the cross?
May it never be.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Do you agree thats when the new testament begins ? At his death ? Hebrews 9 .16-17
So you believe this new testament verse not efective till Jesus die oN the cross?

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Matt 5
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of
old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed
adultery with her already in his heart.

This verse is not effective till matt 27?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Thats quite a knee jerk reaction to what i said lol ?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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So you just dismiss the word of Christ? because they were before the cross?
May it never be.
Why the extreme response ? Did I say I ' dismiss the word of Christ ' ? I don't dismiss his word in Leviticus, lamentations, Job , Ruth or any book of the bible . Do you treat Leviticus the same way as the book of John or Romans . Is it all the same ?
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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Luke 17
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Are you following this today? Yes or no ? If not why not ?
No, that command of the Lord can not be executed, as there is no priests nor temple of God at this point in time. There will however be again in future, in other words, during the time of the new covenant, or stated otherwise - the time of the "New Testament", as this prophesy of God has not yet come to pass (Ezekiel 40 - 48):


Ezekiel 40 (ESV)


1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was struck down, on that very day, the hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me to the city. 2 In visions of God he brought me to the land of Israel, and set me down on a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south. 3 When he brought me there, behold, there was a man whose appearance was like bronze, with a linen cord and a measuring reed in his hand. And he was standing in the gateway. 4 And the man said to me, "Son of man, look with your eyes, and hear with your ears, and set your heart upon all that I shall show you, for you were brought here in order that I might show it to you. Declare all that you see to the house of Israel." 5 And behold, there was a wall all around the outside of the temple area, and the length of the measuring reed in the man's hand was six long cubits, each being a cubit and a handbreadth in length. So he measured the thickness of the wall, one reed; and the height, one reed. 6 Then he went into the gateway facing east, going up its steps, and measured the threshold of the gate, one reed deep. 7 And the side rooms, one reed long and one reed broad; and the space between the side rooms, five cubits; and the threshold of the gate by the vestibule of the gate at the inner end, one reed. 8 Then he measured the vestibule of the gateway, on the inside, one reed. 9 Then he measured the vestibule of the gateway, eight cubits; and its jambs, two cubits; and the vestibule of the gate was at the inner end. 10 And there were three side rooms on either side of the east gate. The three were of the same size, and the jambs on either side were of the same size....
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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No it was foretold before the creation / foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).





Your believes bringing you to go to the extent of nullifying Christ Yeshua's words (almost all of them happening before his crucifixion, and conquering of death) is of grave concern.

By your teaching above, you are wiping out the whole of Christ Yeshua's life on earth, the way he showed us to walk, and all his eternally true teachings. It is very much relevant, as all the gospels were written, by his disciples turning apostles, following His ascension to heaven - of which eleven out of twelve had to die for the testimony of His life on earth - which you want to wipe out.

1 Peter 1 (ESV)

20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

WHY HAVE YOU GOT ME LUMPED INTO THAT GROUP????
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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So you just dismiss the word of Christ? because they were before the cross?
May it never be.
No I see a DIFFERENCE before and after his death , burial and resurrection. If there's no difference why is the entire Bible anticipating it and no one can be saved because of it? isn't that the most important event in the entire Bible?
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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Why the extreme response ? Did I say I ' dismiss the word of Christ ' ? I don't dismiss his word in Leviticus, lamentations, Job , Ruth or any book of the bible . Do you treat Leviticus the same way as the book of John or Romans . Is it all the same ?
I believe you did say that.
And now your response to me just got ridiculous