Is the end near?

[Nehemiah6]

Actually according to the Olivet discourse in luke 21:35-36, the tribulation described therein shall come upon the whole earth.

That is called "the Great Tribulation" (which follows "the Tribulation".

For then shall be [the] Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Mt 24:21,22).

In Rev 7:14 it is called in Greek "the Tribulation, the Great" [τῆς (tēs) θλίψεως (thlipseōs) τῆς (tēs) μεγάλης (megalēs)].

In Daniel's 70th week the first 3 1/2 years correspond to the Tribulation, and the next 3 1/2 years correspond to the Great Tribulation (which will be shortened).

 

[Truth7t7]

Providing external links raises questions of the other topics those links discuss, thereby distracting from the immediate topic being discussed. It seems to me like when some here have no answer to contest the Word contradicting their point of view, they then jump to these other type of diversionary tactics in order to not acknowledge the truth.

I Agree 100% Correct, Well Said!

In A Corner, Looking For An Escape From Presented Truth, Diversion

 

[Truth7t7]

That is called "the Great Tribulation" (which follows "the Tribulation".

For then shall be [the] Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Mt 24:21,22).

In Rev 7:14 it is called in Greek "the Tribulation, the Great" [τῆς (tēs) θλίψεως (thlipseōs) τῆς (tēs) μεγάλης (megalēs)].

In Daniel's 70th week the first 3 1/2 years correspond to the Tribulation, and the next 3 1/2 years correspond to the Great Tribulation (which will be shortened).

No such thing as a 7 year tribulation found in scripture.

Daniel's weeks are future literal days not years as many falsely teach

Revelation 11:3 in the (Two Witnesses) 1260 days, is exactly the same time frame as the 42 months given to (The Beast)

The Future Tribulation Is 3.5 Years, same time frame below in parallel.

Revelation 11:3KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[Truth7t7]

In Daniel's 70th week the first 3 1/2 years correspond to the Tribulation, and the next 3 1/2 years correspond to the Great Tribulation (which will be shortened).

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[luigi]

That is called "the Great Tribulation" (which follows "the Tribulation".

For then shall be [the] Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Mt 24:21,22).

In Rev 7:14 it is called in Greek "the Tribulation, the Great" [τῆς (tēs) θλίψεως (thlipseōs) τῆς (tēs) μεγάλης (megalēs)].

In Daniel's 70th week the first 3 1/2 years correspond to the Tribulation, and the next 3 1/2 years correspond to the Great Tribulation (which will be shortened).

I think there is only one great tribulation in the Olivet discourse, that is then followed by the beast's 3 1/2 years (in association with the abomination of desolation), in which the whole faithless world who are not written in the Lambs book of life will be in love with its system (Revelation 13:4 & 8), which is then followed by the wrath of God on the beasts worshippers.
This means terrible times for all people prior to the beast's system, followed by a continuing terrible time of 3 1/2 years for the faithful while the beast's system is going very well for its participants, followed by the Lord commencing to reign at the conclusion of the beast's 3 1/2 years, and the wrath of God commencing on the beast's worshippers, while the Lord's prophets and saints are then rewarded.

Revelation 11:15 Revelation And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Actually according to the Olivet discourse in luke 21:35-36, the tribulation described therein shall come upon the whole earth. And by the way, the time of trouble to Daniels people is to the people of faith throughout the world.

Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The only part of the Olivet Discourse covering the events surrounding the 70ad events are found in Lk21:12-24...

but all of the rest of the Olivet Discourse is describing events that will unfold upon the earth FOLLOWING "our Rapture,"

...namely, "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (which are the "SEALS" of Rev6) which kick off that future, limited, specific time period that LEADS UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth [in Rev19], i.e. the 7-yr trib / 70th Week of Daniel;

...and we see this in what Paul had written in 1Th5:2-3 (the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" [earthly-located] time-period) where he refers to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon them "SUDDENLY" (like a woman in labor), whereas MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (see the FIRST of the "birth PANGS" in Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ('a certain one' bringing deception)]"... This aspect of "the DOTL" is "DARK / DARKNESS / IN THE NIGHT" (and "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will have no part in that--in fact, the REASON it is "DARK" is because Jesus will have just taken out all of the LIGHTBULBS" from the world [i.e. "our Rapture" event])

Additionally, Luke 21:36 is not a "Rapture" verse, but for those IN / DURING the trib years, to have strength to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" each and every thing coming upon the earth [those heeding His Word, here, of course] DURING the trib years, and to stand before [in a judicial sense] the Son of man [His Second Coming to the earth designation]... so these are trib saints.

Nothing in the context of the Olivet Discourse is covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (though there is indeed a Rapture--it pertains SOLELY TO "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods... this is a matter of "chronology"--This is not the Subject Jesus is covering in the Olivet Discourse)

 

[luigi]

Revelation 11:3 in the (Two Witnesses) 1260 days, is exactly the same time frame as the 42 months given to (The Beast)

I totally agree that the 1260 days of the two witnesses corresponds to the 42 months given to the beast, as it is after the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit, and makes war with the two witnesses, and kills them, that the Lord shortly after their being killed and resurrected, shall then commence to reign on the earth.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

The text says, literally, "seventy sevens"


שָׁבֻעִ֨ים [H7620 - shabua - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7620.htm ]
šā-ḇu-‘îm


שִׁבְעִ֜ים [H7657 - shibim - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7657.htm ]
šiḇ-‘îm

 

[luigi]

The only part of the Olivet Discourse covering the events surrounding the 70ad events are found in Lk21:12-24...

but all of the rest of the Olivet Discourse is describing events that will unfold upon the earth FOLLOWING "our Rapture,"

...namely, "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (which are the "SEALS" of Rev6) which kick off that future, limited, specific time period that LEADS UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth [in Rev19], i.e. the 7-yr trib / 70th Week of Daniel;

...and we see this in what Paul had written in 1Th5:2-3 (the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" [earthly-located] time-period) where he refers to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon them "SUDDENLY" (like a woman in labor), whereas MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (see the FIRST of the "birth PANGS" in Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ('a certain one' bringing deception)]"... This aspect of "the DOTL" is "DARK / DARKNESS / IN THE NIGHT" (and "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will have no part in that--in fact, the REASON it is "DARK" is because Jesus will have just taken out all of the LIGHTBULBS" from the world [i.e. "our Rapture" event])

Additionally, Luke 21:36 is not a "Rapture" verse, but for those IN / DURING the trib years, to have strength to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" each and every thing coming upon the earth [those heeding His Word, here, of course] DURING the trib years, and to stand before [in a judicial sense] the Son of man [His Second Coming to the earth designation]... so these are trib saints.

Nothing in the context of the Olivet Discourse is covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (though there is indeed a Rapture--it pertains SOLELY TO "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods... this is a matter of "chronology"--This is not the Subject Jesus is covering in the Olivet Discourse)

I on the other hand believe the entire Olivet discourse to be future, over the course of a single generation who witness these events.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

time period that LEADS UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth [in Rev19],

Here ^ , I should have added the reference to Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347] ("the meal [G347]" i.e. the earthly MK age which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth)

 

[Truth7t7]

I totally agree that the 1260 days of the two witnesses corresponds to the 42 months given to the beast, as it is after the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit, and makes war with the two witnesses, and kills them, that the Lord shortly after their being killed and resurrected, shall then commence to reign on the earth.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We are in perfect agreement, yes Rev Chap 11 shows the detailed sequence of events, up to verse 15 when the second coming and Eternal state takes place.

The major deception in dispensationalism is, they falsely teach the book of Revelation is in (Chronological Order)A Lie!

This is how they protect and falsely validate a 1,000 years on earth

They falsely teach Revelation 16 & 20 represents two different battles, with 1,000 years between them, when they are actually parallel teachings of the same event.

 

[luigi]

We are in perfect agreement, yes Rev Chap 11 shows the detailed sequence of events, up to verse 15 when the second coming and Eternal state takes place.

The major deception in dispensationalism is, they falsely teach the book of Revelation is in (Chronological Order)A Lie!

This is how they protect and falsely validate a 1,000 years on earth

They falsely teach Revelation 16 & 20 represents two different battles, with 1,000 years between them, when they are actually are parallel teachings of the same event.

I also do not believe Revelation to be in complete chronological order. This is evident with the beast who rises from the bottomless pit who makes war with the two witnesses after their 42 month testifying, at the end of which the Lord commences to reign, correlating with the 42 months of the beast in Revelation 13. I therefore believe Revelation chapter 12 to commence in retrospect with events prior to the 42 months, and leading to the beasts 42 months.

 

[cv5]

I watched the first couple of minutes until it started going into claims about the Olivets correlation with Revelation 6, which may be correct, but which is irrelevant is claiming Luke 21 being different. Also, the speaker at the beginning of the video claims the disciples taking the Lord aside for a confidential conference as to when the end would be, which is wrong. The disciples ask the Lord when the end would come immediately after the Lord responded to their admiring all the fine buildings in Jerusalem by stating there would not be one stone on top of another. This was done privately, but among the fine stone buildings and not in a confidential conference. If you want to make some point, state it, and don't direct me to some false teacher who takes scenes from the Olivet discourse out of context.

Good heavens man Chuck Missler is not "some false teacher". Watch the entire video maybe two or three times you will pick it up God willing.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I on the other hand believe the entire Olivet discourse to be future, over the course of a single generation who witness these events.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

The reason I do not, is because Lk21:12 says "BUT BEFORE ALL these" (i.e. BEFORE the beginning of birth PANGS just listed in vv.8-11) the 70ad events transpire (INCLUDING the "SEE-then-FLEE") ; but in Matt24, "the beginning of birth PANGS [identical in Lk21]" PRECEDE the "SEE-then-FLEE" (mid-trib events)... [whereas in Lk21 "the beginning of birth PANGS" FOLLOW other certain events (vv.12-24, including "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations..." which covers much duration of time)]

This corresponds also with the wording Jesus gave in Matthew 22:7 ['the king WAS WROTH... and burned up their city' (see also His words in Lk19:41-44 on the VERY DAY that the 69 Weeks were concluded)] - 8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'--which necessarily takes place AFTER the 70ad events... and here the LATER 95ad writings "fit" perfectly... see the wording in v.1 (7:3) of Rev]



Gotta run, but hope to be back way later tonight...

 

[luigi]

Good heavens man Chuck Missler is not "some false teacher". Watch the entire video maybe two or three times you will pick it up God willing.

By your request I did watch the entire video, and found it unconvincing in the points I previously posted. If you have a point to make, make it.

 

[Truth7t7]

I also do not believe Revelation to be in complete chronological order. This is evident with the beast who rises from the bottomless pit who makes war with the two witnesses after their 42 month testifying, at the end of which the Lord commences to reign, correlating with the 42 months of the beast in Revelation 13. I therefore believe Revelation chapter 12 to commence in retrospect with events prior to the 42 months, and leading to the beasts 42 months.

Revelation chapters 9-16-20 same satan being loosed, same battle in parallel teachings of the same event

 

[cv5]

By your request I did watch the entire video, and found it unconvincing in the points I previously posted. If you have a point to make, make it.

If you don't understand the language watch the graphics. The first time I watched that presentation I understood it perfectly and instantaneously. I am sure that 30 years in the engineering business made me a quick learner.

 

[luigi]

The reason I do not, is because Lk21:12 says "BUT BEFORE ALL these" (i.e. BEFORE the beginning of birth PANGS just listed in vv.8-11) the 70ad events transpire (INCLUDING the "SEE-then-FLEE") ; but in Matt24, "the beginning of birth PANGS [identical in Lk21]" PRECEDE the "SEE-then-FLEE" (mid-trib events)... [whereas in Lk21 "the beginning of birth PANGS" FOLLOW other certain events (vv.12-24, including "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations..." which covers much duration of time)]

This corresponds also with the wording Jesus gave in Matthew 22:7 ['the king WAS WROTH... and burned up their city' (see also His words in Lk19:41-44 on the VERY DAY that the 69 Weeks were concluded)] - 8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'--which necessarily takes place AFTER the 70ad events... and here the LATER 95ad writings "fit" perfectly... see the wording in v.1 (7:3)]

Birth pangs, like in those in Revelation 12. These birth pangs are during tribulation, at which point the devil will then be cast out into the earth, whereupon he then vests the beast with his power and authority which last 42 months.

 

[Truth7t7]

The reason I do not, is because Lk21:12 says "BUT BEFORE ALL these" (i.e. BEFORE the beginning of birth PANGS just listed in vv.8-11) the 70ad events transpire (INCLUDING the "SEE-then-FLEE") ; but in Matt24, "the beginning of birth PANGS [identical in Lk21]" PRECEDE the "SEE-then-FLEE" (mid-trib events)... [whereas in Lk21 "the beginning of birth PANGS" FOLLOW other certain events (vv.12-24, including "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations..." which covers much duration of time)]

This corresponds also with the wording Jesus gave in Matthew 22:7 ['the king WAS WROTH... and burned up their city' (see also His words in Lk19:41-44 on the VERY DAY that the 69 Weeks were concluded)] - 8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'--which necessarily takes place AFTER the 70ad events... and here the LATER 95ad writings "fit" perfectly... see the wording in v.1 (7:3) of Rev]



Gotta run, but hope to be back way later tonight...

It's been some time since our last discussion?

Do you believe in a (Future) return of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven?

 

[Truth7t7]

Good heavens man Chuck Missler is not "some false teacher". Watch the entire video maybe two or three times you will pick it up God willing.

Total Disrespect In Defeat

Chuck Missler (Was) a false teacher, he's dead and gone