Looking for the Ephraimites, scattered among the Gentiles, since their Assyrian captivity of 740BC

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

Where in the world is the Ephraimites, sons of Ephraim's tribes, sons of Jacob also called Israel? Ephraim's tribes specifically excludes the Jews, who forms another subset of Judah's tribes.

After king Solomon's death, king David's united monarchy, kingdom of Israel ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(united_monarchy) ), split into two nations, ie:

The southern kingdom of Judea with its capitol in Jerusalem ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah ). Jacob's sons' of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi resided here. They were, and still are called collectively the Jews, who also went into Babylonian captivity in 597BC, and returned later by permission of Cyrus the great, to build the Jerusalem temple of Zerubbabel, which was also restored by king Herod, at the time of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Maschiach. Later the Jews were expelled from Judea by the Romans, following the revolt against the Romans, under their false messiah, Simon Bar Kokhba's in 136 A.C. The Jews only regained Judea as the modern state called Israel, in 1948.

The northern kingdom of Israel with its capitol in Samaria ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(Samaria) ). Jacob's sons' of the tribes of Joseph / Ephraim, Manasseh (other half-tribe of Joseph), Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun and Dan resided here. They were, and still would have been called collectively the Ephraimites / Israelites, if their location were still known. They all went into Assyrian captivity by 740BC, and were lost to history, never to return to their identity as sons of Jacob. To this day they are still scattered among the Gentiles, as fulfilment of the curse of Deuteronomy 28:64, for breaking God's first covenant.

As it is prophesied that Ephraim and Judah will once again be reunited, under a new covenant with God, under their Davidic king, Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, Ephraim's identity from among the Gentiles will have to become know, as Judah's identity from among the Jews are already known.

So, where in the world do you think is the Ephraimites, sons of Ephraim's tribes, sons of Jacob also called Israel (not referring to Jacob's other sons, called the Jews)?

The new covenant is written in the blood of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, it is with Israel and Judah, Israel is Ephraim believing in Jesus / Yeshua scattered among the Gentiles, Judah is the Jews still partially hardened, living currently in Jerusalem's Israel, Zion, as a nation, predominantly without Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, and without their Gentile-scattered brother Israel / Ephraim. So Judah needs to come to the Messiah, Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, and Ephraim / Israel among the Gentiles ( even from beyond the rivers of Cush / Ethiopia / sub-Saharan Africa ), already believing in the Messiah, Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, needs to come to Zion to re-join their brother Judah, that will not happen until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, ie. the gospel of the Kingdom has reached the whole of the world.

Zechariah 12 (ESV)

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Zephaniah 3 (ESV)

1 Woe to her who is rebellious and defiled, the oppressing city! 2 She listens to no voice; she accepts no correction. She does not trust in the Lord; she does not draw near to her God. 9 "For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord. 10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering. 11 "On that day you shall not be put to shame because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me; for then I will remove from your midst your proudly exultant ones, and you shall no longer be haughty in my holy mountain. 12 But I will leave in your midst a people humble and lowly. They shall seek refuge in the name of the Lord, 13 those who are left in Israel; they shall do no injustice and speak no lies, nor shall there be found in their mouth a deceitful tongue. For they shall graze and lie down, and none shall make them afraid." 14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!

Romans 11 (ESV)

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Hebrews 8 (ESV)

8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." (COVENANT WRITTEN IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN) 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Jeremiah 31 (ESV)

31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (COVENANT WRITTEN IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN) 35 Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the Lord of hosts is his name: 36 "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the Lord, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever." 37 Thus says the Lord: "If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the Lord."

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

The prophesy of the future reuniting of Judah and Ephraim:

Ezekiel 36 (ESV)

17 "Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity. 18 So I poured out my wrath upon them for the blood that they had shed in the land, for the idols with which they had defiled it. 19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. (The new covenant written in the blood of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.) And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (613 mitzvot ) 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 37 (ESV)

16 "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?' 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant (Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach) shall be their prince forever.

Luke 13 (ESV)

28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob (father of the tribes of Ephraim and Judah) and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

Acts 15 (ESV)

7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will." 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 "'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.' 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

2 Peter 3 (ESV)

15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people (law of Acts 15:19-20 pertaining to Gentiles that are not of Ephraim, or the 613 mitzvot to Ephraim among the Gentiles, or Judah among the Jews) and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:
You are at a lost "my brother in Jesus Christ / Jeshua ha'Mashiach", you confuse Ephraim to be of the Jews, that is a grave historical mistake. Jews are from the southern kingdom of ancient Israel, and retained their identity when they returned to Judea (southern Israel) from their Babylonian captivity in 597BC, and again returned to the modern "state of Israel" in 1948 after the Jews's (Judah's) Roman diaspora of following Judah's false Messiah, Simon Bar Kokhba's, revolt in 136 A.C when the Jews of Judah got banned from Judea in southern Israel.

Ephraim COMPLETELY lost their identity, to such an extent that we do not have any trace of them in the modern world today. They lost this identity during their Assyrian captivity of 740BC, where they were driven from the land to the four corners of the earth, where they forget the God of there forefathers, became Gentiles, and started to worship idols of wood and stone, as fulfilment of the curse of Deuteronomy 28 (especially verse 64), for breaking God's first covenant. But even this, was part of God's plan for the Gentiles, so that through God's covenant with Abraham, all the nations of the world will be blessed, even by the breaking thereof.

So tell me, when in the history of the world has Ephraim (not Judah - as history tells us they are not the same peoples, after the northern kingdom split from the southern kingdom split, following king Solomon's death. Jews are those of Judah, living in Judea in the southern kingdom, whilst Ephraim (not Jews) were the other, now still lost, to be found in future, ten tribes. Ephraim of today do not know they are Ephraim... or ask Ephraim to stand up, and show me who they are - except for those under God's new covenant, living among us Christians, who are still loving all of God's commandments, as his law has been written on their hearts (Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:10):

Deuteronomy 28 (ESV)

64 "And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the Lord will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, 'If only it were evening!' and at evening you shall say, 'If only it were morning!' because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see. 68 And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer."

Luke 13 (ESV)

28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob (Judah & Ephraim's father) and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Corban:

I am familiar with your belief. British Israelism is another similar doctrine. You have made one fatal assumption. You said Ephariam BECAME Gentiles. But in this you missed the Omniscience of God. and His Law of "KIND" in Genesis 1:11-12. HE KNOWS who are seed of Jacob. That's all that counts. You, and ten thousand others may make the claims you do, based on history, but if you are a seed of Israel (Jacob) and you produce an offspring, that Offspring can do what they like, confess what they like, take the Passport they like and speak any language in the world, they are still seed of Jacob. And they can do this for a hundred generations, but the seed of Jacob just keeps its line. Added to this, God made a Covenant with Jacob and his seed - and God does not break Covenants just because a fiftieth generation Israeli lives in Times Square.

I agree with you fully. God knows the identity of Ephraim, although Ephraim among the Gentiles themselves, to this day, does not.

JaumeJ · Nov 4, 2020

Everyone tends to call all of the Twelve Tribes Jews being ignorant of the reality that Judaism is the umbrella name for all sects of Judaism

It seems many are just as unaware that those who call themselves Jews and are not, rather a synagogue of Sateen are actually those who call themselves Christians today, and are not.

A true Jew would be all who are so inwardly, who praise God or Yah. Now this will not go over with the anti-Jew crowd for they will take this as being called something they truly are in Jesus-Yeshua, praisers of God.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

JaumeJ said:

Yes agreed, as all who walk in the jewish walk of the Jew, Christ Yeshua, is following in the walk of Jesus, his apostles, and the convert apostle Paul's Messiah-fulfilling Jewish 'sect' of the Nazirenes (referred to in the Greek as Christianity), and not in the Talmudic 'parties' of the Pharisees and Sadducees:

( All Gentiles are not Ephraimites, whilst all Ephraimites are still, to this day seemed to be scattered among the Gentiles, devoid of their identity as sons of Jacob, forming part of the Gentile identity, that is all they currently know, until the fulness of the Gentiles will come in, in accordance with Romans 11:25, when their brother Judah among the Jews, will join them in Christ Yeshua. )

If the book of Hebrews are speaking to your heart, and you acknowledge God's laws have been written on our hearts and minds, under God's new covenant with us, written in the blood of Christ Yeshua, you might probably be of the Ephraimites among the Gentiles.

Acts 24 (ESV)

1 And after five days the high priest Ananias came down with some elders and a spokesman, one Tertullus. They laid before the governor their case against Paul. 2 And when he had been summoned, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying: "Since through you we enjoy much peace, and since by your foresight, most excellent Felix, reforms are being made for this nation, 3 in every way and everywhere we accept this with all gratitude. 4 But, to detain you no further, I beg you in your kindness to hear us briefly. 5 For we have found this man a plague, one who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the world and is a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.

Romans 11 (ESV)

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Hebrews 8 (ESV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."

2 Peter 3 (ESV)

15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Luke 13 (ESV)

28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Corban · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:

I'm afraid you did not say this. You said Ephriam BECAME Gentiles. Now you say "Ephraim AMONG the Gentiles". Added to this, you have manintained that Ephraim believed in Jesus Christ. This is what God said of the matter. Romans 11:25-32;

25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

"ALL ISRAEL" is defined here in verse 26 - Jacob. That is, ALL TWELVE TRIBES, and this context continues through verse 32 - "ALL"
"ALL ISRAEL - the twelve Tribes, are blind until the "fullness of the gentiles be come in". That is, until Armageddon when Gentile world domination is crushed militarily
"ALL ISRAEL" - the Twelve Tribes are "Concluded by God to be in UNBELIEF". They will never embrace Jesus Christ until they see who they pierced come out of the clouds (Rev.1:7)
"ALL ISRAEL" - the twelve Tribes are "enemies of the gospel"
"ALL ISRAEL" - the Twelve Tribes receive mercy because of a Lamb (of God)
"ALL ISRAEL" - Ephraim AND Judah get the New Covenant (Jer.31:31)
"ALL ISRAEL" - Ephraim and Judah, only get the New Covenant when God takes away their sins. This has not happened yet as Israelites are still being persecuted today, refuse Jesus until today, break the Law continuously and apply democracy when God commanded a king - a Monarchy.
If a son of Jacob sires a son or daughter, that person is "seed of Jacob". When that person sires offspring, that offspring is seed of Jacob. Ephraim are the 10 Northern Tribes whether they know it or not. Being raised a Catholic, or Buddha, or a Hindu, does NOT change their ORIGIN
Ephraim and Judah are not restored because they believe in Jesus Christ. They are restored because of the Covenant God made with Abraham.
Israel will be returned to their Land, NOT because they believe in Jesus Christ, but when they start keeping the LAW (Deut.30:1-5).

I could write more, but if these 10 points, or even 5 of them, are true, then your theory is without substance. Israel was Israel under David. Israel was divided into 2 nations but still remained ALL SONS OF JACOB. The ten Northern Tribes are dispersed and unrecogniseable among ALL nations, but God knows who they are. Members of this dispersion where at the first Pentecost in Acts 2. If a son of Jacob, in Terra Del Fuego, does not convert to Christ via the gospel and by FAITH, he remains a son of Jacob. If he embraces Christ, he becomes a New Creature and his past is wiped (2nd Cor.5:17). He goes from son of Jacob to son of God by a New and Heavenly BIRTH and he belongs to the New Man - the mystic Body of Christ. His past ethnicity is moot.

If you are a son of Jacob, I ask, how do you know? If you believed in Jesus Christ, you are a New Man and your past is wiped from all records except men's. The Bible does not recognize a Messianic Jew. It is man's invention and contrary to the New Man. Nobody who has embraced and believed in Jesus Christ has a special status based on his past. His past simply does not exist (Gal.3:29; Col.3:11). If you are a son of Jacob and you do not embrace Christ, you have claim to a piece of Canaan. If you embraced Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, you have claim over cities of the whole world (Lk.19:17-19; Rom.4:13).

The New Covenant is NOT written in blood. It has been RATIFIED by Christ's blood. The New Covenant is not in force yet because, (i) the old, with its chastisements is evidently still in force, (ii) Israel have not been resurrected yet, and (iii) ALL ISRAEL have not been united again.

GraceAndTruth · Nov 4, 2020

After being defeated by the Assyrians their history was lost.
You are chasing butterflies.

Mormons think the Ephriam -ites- founded the "lost tribes" in American and they are descended from them.
They have absolutely no historial or scriptural reference for this......or most of their odd dogma.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

Corban said:

I'm afraid you did not say this. You said Ephriam BECAME Gentiles. Now you say "Ephraim AMONG the Gentiles". Added to this, you have manintained that Ephraim believed in Jesus Christ. This is what God said of the matter. Romans 11:25-32;

25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

"ALL ISRAEL" is defined here in verse 26 - Jacob. That is, ALL TWELVE TRIBES, and this context continues through verse 32 - "ALL"
"ALL ISRAEL - the twelve Tribes, are blind until the "fullness of the gentiles be come in". That is, until Armageddon when Gentile world domination is crushed militarily
"ALL ISRAEL" - the Twelve Tribes are "Concluded by God to be in UNBELIEF". They will never embrace Jesus Christ until they see who they pierced come out of the clouds (Rev.1:7)
"ALL ISRAEL" - the twelve Tribes are "enemies of the gospel"
"ALL ISRAEL" - the Twelve Tribes receive mercy because of a Lamb (of God)
"ALL ISRAEL" - Ephraim AND Judah get the New Covenant (Jer.31:31)
"ALL ISRAEL" - Ephraim and Judah, only get the New Covenant when God takes away their sins. This has not happened yet as Israelites are still being persecuted today, refuse Jesus until today, break the Law continuously and apply democracy when God commanded a king - a Monarchy.
If a son of Jacob sires a son or daughter, that person is "seed of Jacob". When that person sires offspring, that offspring is seed of Jacob. Ephraim are the 10 Northern Tribes whether they know it or not. Being raised a Catholic, or Buddha, or a Hindu, does NOT change their ORIGIN
Ephraim and Judah are not restored because they believe in Jesus Christ. They are restored because of the Covenant God made with Abraham.
Israel will be returned to their Land, NOT because they believe in Jesus Christ, but when they start keeping the LAW (Deut.30:1-5).

I could write more, but if these 10 points, or even 5 of them, are true, then your theory is without substance. Israel was Israel under David. Israel was divided into 2 nations but still remained ALL SONS OF JACOB. The ten Northern Tribes are dispersed and unrecogniseable among ALL nations, but God knows who they are. Members of this dispersion where at the first Pentecost in Acts 2. If a son of Jacob, in Terra Del Fuego, does not convert to Christ via the gospel and by FAITH, he remains a son of Jacob. If he embraces Christ, he becomes a New Creature and his past is wiped (2nd Cor.5:17). He goes from son of Jacob to son of God by a New and Heavenly BIRTH and he belongs to the New Man - the mystic Body of Christ. His past ethnicity is moot.

If you are a son of Jacob, I ask, how do you know? If you believed in Jesus Christ, you are a New Man and your past is wiped from all records except men's. The Bible does not recognize a Messianic Jew. It is man's invention and contrary to the New Man. Nobody who has embraced and believed in Jesus Christ has a special status based on his past. His past simply does not exist (Gal.3:29; Col.3:11). If you are a son of Jacob and you do not embrace Christ, you have claim to a piece of Canaan. If you embraced Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, you have claim over cities of the whole world (Lk.19:17-19; Rom.4:13).

The New Covenant is NOT written in blood. It has been RATIFIED by Christ's blood. The New Covenant is not in force yet because, (i) the old, with its chastisements is evidently still in force, (ii) Israel have not been resurrected yet, and (iii) ALL ISRAEL have not been united again.

Your whole discourse falls flat, as Paul's reference to "Israel" is to the Judah part among the Jews, not the Ephraim part lost in Paul's time to the Gentiles, and still to this day, but to be regathered by God in future.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

God's prophesies indicates that He will regather Ephraim's tribes from the four corners of the earth where Ephraim (and to a lesser extent Judah as well, although Judah, other than Ephraim, retained greatly their Judaic/jewish identity) were scattered among the Gentiles, to rejoin them with their brother Judah's three tribes among the Jews, into the promised land.

Ezekiel 36 (ESV)

17 "Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity. 18 So I poured out my wrath upon them for the blood that they had shed in the land, for the idols with which they had defiled it. 19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. (The new covenant written in the blood of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.) And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (613 mitzvot ) 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

Corban said:

You ask: "If you are a son of Jacob, I ask, how do you know?"

You know you are a son of Jacob, Ephraim from among the Gentiles, if Christ Yeshua is your King, He who wrote all God's laws ( 613 mitzvot ), and not just a run-down version of it (Acts 15:19-20), on your heart and mind, through His blood sacrifice. His Word, the book Hebrews is speaking to you.

Hebrews 8 (ESV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws ( 613 mitzvot ) into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."

Acts 15 (ESV)

19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

Keras · Nov 4, 2020

BenjamiN, you quoted the verse saying: my people beyond the river of Cush. Or Ethiopia.
The AEthiopian sea was the ancient name of the Atlantic ocean. The place referred to in Isaiah 18, Zeph 3:10 , etc - is the Americas.

It is God’s plan that the House of Judah, that is: the Jewish people, remain as an identifiable people group to fulfil the tasks assigned to them. In these present days, one task has been to replant and rebuild the Land.
But the 10 Northern tribes, that is, the House of Israel, have been lost to history.
Deuteronomy 32:26 says - I will cause the memory of them to cease among men.

However, the Bible does give us some clues as to who and where they might be today.

Who has received the blessings promised?
Where will they eventually come from to return to the Land?

THE BLESSINGS -

To Abraham: Father of many nations, exceedingly fruitful,
To Isaac: numberless descendants, Land given to them.
To Jacob: The richness of the earth. Peoples will serve you. Curses on those who curse you, blessing on those who bless you.
To the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel): See in Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33:1-29

1 Chronicles 5:1-2; states that the Birthright Blessing is given to Joseph.
In Genesis 48 Jacob blesses Joseph’s sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. Both were to become great nations.
Deuteronomy 33:17 The 10,000s of Ephraim and the 1000s of Manasseh will push against the nations, even to the ends of the earth.

Only the British Commonwealth and the United States of America fulfil these prophecies. The other 8 tribes seem to be identified with the European Union nations.
Ref: The Tribes, Yair Davidy.

RETURN AND REJOINING IN THE LAND
There are over forty prophecies telling us of the House of Israel’s return to the Promised Land in the last days, so where they will migrate from gives the clues as to where they are now.
Jeremiah 31:8-10 See, I bring them from a Northern land ... gathered from the far ends of the earth.....a vast company...I am a Father to Israel and Ephraim is My eldest son.
Isaiah 49:12 They are coming, some from far away, some from the North and West and others from the land of Sinim. (Sinim - Hebrew: Southern land, Latin: Australi)
Hosea 11: They will follow the Lord and when He roars His sons will speed out of the West.

So, the main location of the lost ten tribes is in the Northwest and from there, spread around the world. REF; logostelos.info

stonesoffire · Nov 4, 2020

Ephraim is a cake half turned......half baked? Lol

Sorry couldn't resist.

Ephraim became fruitful.
The story of my walk. From half baked to on fire.

GraceAndTruth · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:

You can't pluck some verses out of scripture and declare its about Ehraim.
YOU can't do this either:
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. (The new covenant written in the blood of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.) <<----your post.......adding your own words is blasphemy.

Its precisely because their true history was lost that so much false history is made against them. When the bible is silent on an issure it is best if we keep silent also.

Nehemiah6 · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:

Only God knows.

Corban · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:

All men who want to promote their own ideas mus use the same excuse. That is; "God did not mean what He said". You say; "ALL Israel is only a fraction". God says ALL ISRAEL. In Romans 9 Paul starts the discussion by defining an Israelite. We pick up in Romans 9:3-5;

3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."

In verse 3 going into 4, Paul's brethren and KINSMEN according to the flesh are Israelites. Now you have to decide. Who received the Covenants? Who received the Law? Who received the Promises. Judah???? Benjamin??? I think not. THE TWELVE TRIBES!!! And if you are still trying to decide, the "Israelites" came from the FATHERS (plural).

And this is the theme of Romans 9 to 11. It is an answer to the first eight Chapters which show that ALL men, Jew and Gentile, are concluded under sin, with Israel worse than the Gentiles because they already knew God and then murdered His Son - Jesus. The logical question then is; "Is there any hope for Israel after this terrible record over nearly 1,600 years?" So Paul builds a case for their restoration, not because Israel deserve it, but because God made PROMISES. God's reputation is at stake. The three Chapter are a carefully built case for God's judicial right to have mercy on Israel. AND THE ISRAEL MEANT IS THE TOTALITY OF JACOB'S SEED - ALL ISRAEL.

Corban · Nov 4, 2020

BenjaminN said:

You have, without an ounce of proof, ASSUMED that saved Gentiles are from the ten northern Tribes. Your verses do not show this at all. I could enter into argument about them, but I don't think it would help. For instance, the TWO mentioned in Hebrews 8 are defined. They are ALL those who God took by the hand to bring out of Egypt! It is the Covenant of LAW that is to be replaced. And it is with the SONS OF THE TWELVE TRIBES. It is the FATHERS (plural). I do not have those who came out of Israel as my fathers (plural). I have ONE Father - Jehovah. I do not have Moses and his 613 Laws. The LAWS (not the Covenant) have been abolished FOR ME AND ANY JEW WHO CONVERTS TO CHRIST by being nailed to the cross WITH CHRIST (Eph.2:15).

And in Acts 15 the conference decide that the Gentile believers must follow NOTHING of the Law. What is recorded here is the Covenant with NOAH! But something else is evident in Acts 15:19. The Believers, the Disciples at Jerusalem were turning back to the Law themselves. And what happens when you read what Moses received on the mount??? A VEIL!!! (2nd Cor.3:14-15). Their veiled intellect is shown in that they were not clear on food "polluted by idols". Paul, to who is given the mystery of the Church, says in 1st Corinthians 8 that we MAY eat food dedicated to idols as long as there are no weak Christians around. Peter, James and co were "weak Christians".

All I can say is that you do not have a single argument on which to support your amazing claims. Every scriptre you have brought does not, by any means, support your theory. If you are of the Tribe of Judah you are as much an Israelite as a Danite. If you have believed in, and confessed Jesus with your mouth, you are a NEW MAN and your past - what ever it was - is GONE (2nd Cor.5:17). If you still adhere to the Law of Moses, you have deeply insulted God, His Son Jesus and the monumental work of that Son. You are fallen from grace and have made Christ "of none effect" (Gal.5:4).

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

Keras said:

Ephraim among the French Huguenots, the Germans, the Dutch and the Britons of Martin Luther and John Calvin's reformation, went to populate the outstretches of the world, beyond the rivers of Cush or Ethiopia. Literally speaking when looking from ancient Israel to Ethiopia in the south, and its rivers in the south, it directs one to the Cape of Good Hope, where some of the South African Afrikaners' ancestors of 1688, the French Huguenots, settled in Franschhoek, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa. South African Afrikaners' ancestors also consists of a mixture of other reformation populations, like the Germans, the Dutch and the Britons, intermingled with slaves from the east (brought to the Cape of Good Hope by the Dutch VOC - East India Company), and the indigenous KhoiSan population. Thus the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, were brought by the reformers to the indigenous scattered peoples, of the land beyond (south of, when looking from Jerusalem) the rivers of Kush.

Google Earth Location of Ephraim among the Afrikaners' ancestors, of the Huguenots of the French Huguenot Museum, in Franschhoek, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa, standing at Jerusalem, located (south) beyond the rivers of Ethiopia

Allegorically speaking, beyond the "rivers" of Cush (Ethiopia) also refer to the Atlantic "ocean" of west Africa, and to the land laying (to the west) beyond that, having Ephraim among the reformers that settled the Americas. It also refers to the outstretches of the world, including India, Australia and Indonesia, etc.

Zephaniah 3 (ESV)

9 "For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord. 10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering. 11 "On that day you shall not be put to shame because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me; for then I will remove from your midst your proudly exultant ones, and you shall no longer be haughty in my holy mountain. (Annulled Apartheid of the Afrikaner's descendants of the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa) 12 But I will leave in your midst a people humble and lowly. They shall seek refuge in the name of the Lord, 13 those who are left in Israel (scattered Ephraim among the Gentiles retaining their Israel law and covenant keeping identity); they shall do no injustice and speak no lies, nor shall there be found in their mouth a deceitful tongue. For they shall graze and lie down, and none shall make them afraid." (Brutal torturing farm attacks, aimed at reformed Afrikaners' Israel law and covenant keeping descendants, by hostile indigenous peoples will cease.) 14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

stonesoffire said:

Genesis 48 (ESV)

15 And he blessed Joseph and said, "The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day, 16 the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys; and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." 17 When Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephraim, it displeased him, and he took his father's hand to move it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. 18 And Joseph said to his father, "Not this way, my father; since this one is the firstborn, put your right hand on his head." 19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great. Nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations."

BenjaminN · Nov 4, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

Hebrews 8 (ESV)

8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." (by the blood of Christ Yeshua - it may be blasphemous to you, to stress the fact that the new covenant with the house of Israel AND the house of Judah, is by the blood of Christ Yeshua, it is not blasphemous to me) 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Looking for the Ephraimites, scattered among the Gentiles, since their Assyrian captivity of 740BC

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