Today’s church’s misunderstandings

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mustaphadrink

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
#541
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
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#541
lenna said:
not at your local graveyard where you might well be ;)

crack open a Bible and understand that God forbids occult practices

if you only depend on the authors of questionable books, as those you recommend, it may explain the difficulty you have in understanding that not all that is spiritual is of God
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Did you know that sarcasm is the lowest form of whit?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#543
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
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#543
laymen said:
My understanding is that Constantine is the one who gave the decree of Sunday Worship. Constantine wanted to unify the Pagan believes with the Church believes so that they would all get along. But that might just be me.
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On the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read. … Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead
(Justin Martyr, First Apology, 67; ANF 1:186)
​
this is from prior to 150 AD

pretty well before Constantine.

so.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#545
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#545
posthuman said:
On the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read. … Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead ​
(Justin Martyr, First Apology, 67; ANF 1:186)​
​
this is from prior to 150 AD

pretty well before Constantine.

so.
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It is a misrepresentation of scripture to say that scripture tells us Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, it is a lie, scripture tells us it was DISCOVERED that He rose from the dead on Sunday. There is no report of anyone seeing the Lord rise, the report is of the DISCOVERY. It is wrong to say something about scripture that isn't true.

You can say you believe that we should hold church on Sunday, not Saturday. You can say anything about it that is the truth, but to say scripture tells us something it does not is not truth.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#546
#546
Blik said:
We need to keep to those things that have eternal consequences. They center on Christ as the Son of the Father.

I have had a strong personal conviction that it is dishonoring God if we will not acknowledge that God created Saturday as the Sabbath. Paul disagrees with me about its importance. Paul was chosen by the Lord, I am not. Paul states that what is important is living for the Lord, and not putting a stumbling block to others who have personal convictions about how to do that. I must listen.
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You just proved my point.

your focused on works,

paul said to focus on Christ,

he also said I should not judge you because you chose one day, and you should not judge me as I give every day to the lord.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#547
#547
Benadam said:
Funny that it took over a thousand years for Christians to realize that.

Catholic doctrine isn't dogmatized unless it is threatened or required for some good. None of what Catholics believe is new it's just that some needed to be clarified for some reason or another. People mistake the clarification as a doctrines beginning. Constantine didn't have the spiritual authority to introduce doctrine. He just made Christianity legal.
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He did not just make it legal, it made it in a way his pagan people would not kill him
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#548
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
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#548
Blik said:
It is a misrepresentation of scripture to say that scripture tells us Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, it is a lie, scripture tells us it was DISCOVERED that He rose from the dead on Sunday. There is no report of anyone seeing the Lord rise, the report is of the DISCOVERY. It is wrong to say something about scripture that isn't true.

You can say you believe that we should hold church on Sunday, not Saturday. You can say anything about it that is the truth, but to say scripture tells us something it does not is not truth.
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The 8th day begins at sunset.
Christ rose on Firstfruits. That's the 8th day which is also the 1st.

Good job on completely ignoring the evidence I posted and trying to change the subject.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#549
Jan 18, 2011
12,397
6,737
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#549
laymen said:
Do you mean, Does love cover sin?
Pr 10:12Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (1995). (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version., Pr 10:12). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
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no, i mean the twilight fri.-twilight sat Sabbath.

is that a requirement for salvation or not?
 
laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#550
Apr 6, 2014
680
102
43
faithlife.com
#550
gb9 said:
no, i mean the twilight fri.-twilight sat Sabbath.

is that a requirement for salvation or not?
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Why, do you think it is? Not sure why you would ask such a thing? did I say something to make you want to ask that?
 
laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#551
Apr 6, 2014
680
102
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faithlife.com
#551
posthuman said:
On the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read. … Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead ​
(Justin Martyr, First Apology, 67; ANF 1:186)​
​
this is from prior to 150 AD

pretty well before Constantine.

so.
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I worded if they are using the word translated from the words “Lords day” seeing how this was not English to being with.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#552
Jan 18, 2011
12,397
6,737
113
#552
laymen said:
Why, do you think it is? Not sure why you would ask such a thing? did I say something to make you want to ask that?
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to see if you are a judeaizer or not.

to see if you are telling the truth that only belief and trust in Christ saves, or see if you are pushing Christ + Law, which is a lie.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#553
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
113
#553
laymen said:
I worded if they are using the word translated from the words “Lords day” seeing how this was not English to being with.
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My guess is going to be he's not - but that's going to be hard for me to look up on my phone. Maybe later after work i can check.

Meanwhile, if you want to look, the original text is Greek and should be available somewhere on this page:

https://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/25_20_25-_Rerum_Conspectus_Pro_Auctoribus_Ordinatus.html


This is by no means the only pre-Constantine evidence that Christians met in the 8th day, not the 7th. There's actually an HUGE amount of documentation of that fact, whereas in the other hand it's basically only SDA and Hebrew Roots people saying they didn't 'because we say so'
 
laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#554
Apr 6, 2014
680
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faithlife.com
#554
gb9 said:
to see if you are a judeaizer or not.

to see if you are telling the truth that only belief and trust in Christ saves, or see if you are pushing Christ + Law, which is a lie.
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A true Christ follower does not follow anything from the Bible that makes him saved only because he is saved!
 
L

lenna

Guest
#555
#555
mustaphadrink said:
Did you know that sarcasm is the lowest form of whit?
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did you know you need whit to apply sarcasm?

get thee to a grave maker. I think the anointing might be wearing off

so anyway, I'm done with this. my boredom threshold is a little lower than befits this lack of conversation
 
L

lenna

Guest
#556
#556
laymen said:
A true Christ follower does not follow anything from the Bible that makes him saved only because he is saved!
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following the Bible does not make you saved anyway

God is the judge of who is true or not, and the one who is of God, simply believes and is justified

sanctification is a process and yet some people do not live long enough. so they are not saved?

what is actual salvation? the gospel, belief in the substitutionary death of our Savior, Jesus, is the only name to call on for salvation

you sure seem to always try to avoid answering in a straightforward manner :unsure:
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#557
Jan 18, 2011
12,397
6,737
113
#557
most false teachers do avoid straight answers..
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#558
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
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#558
laymen said:
I worded if they are using the word translated from the words “Lords day” seeing how this was not English to being with.
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OK he literally calls it "the day called that of the sun" in Greek. No bones about it, he is talking about sunday, the day after the sabbath of the Jews.

200 years before Constantine the church fathers were without controversy saying that Christian tradition was to meet in the 8th day / 1st day and also adamantly affirming that this was the day Christ rose. This is one generation from the apostles themselves, people who sat at the feet of the apostles.

'blah blah Constantine changed the day Christians met' is rubbish. These people were being killed just for believing in Christ, you think they would go along with being forced to worship on a different day? Nope.

All that said, sunday is not sabbath. Christians don't meet on sabbath, that was never a command given to us - were not observing sabbath when we meet; that's not the purpose.
and anyone calling the 8th day 'Christian sabbath' is every bit as confused as the SDA.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#560
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
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#560
Benadam said:
Jesus gave the Apostles the right to change ceremonial law. The day of rest is two part. The only commandment that is both a moral law and a ceremonial law. The particular day to rest is a matter of ceremony. The Church was given the authority to change ceremonial law. They did that long before Constantine.
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oh my gosh,
first of all, where are your 'scriptures for this statement'???
second of all,
'It is written: MATT. 5:17.
Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law,
till all be fulfilled.
19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
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