Attitudes toward drinking
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I see multiple comments and replies here claiming the Bible says to completely, 100%,to never drink alcohol as if not even a drop into your mouth. Or so they mean it that way.
You want proof that these people are lying or either misunderstanding scripture?
Here are a few verses that claim alcohol can be a good thing.and as you read these, think about these things a bit deeply with a godly perspective, understand that when they say wine -it is alcoholic, not nonalcoholic grape juice;
1 Timothy 5:23 ESV
(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
Ecclesiastes 9;7
Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.
Proverbs 31;6
Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;
John 2;1-11
On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
There are other verses, but here you have scripture telling to drink together and be merry, to give a drink to someone who is perishing, you even have the Lord himself making it for a party. You constantly see verses about wine being alcoholic, so you know they don't mean grape juice.
But there are many verses saying how wine is bad, being drunk is bad and do on. But then you have these giving you multiple reasons why you should drink wine.
Do you think the Bible is contradicting itself? I find it that those who are the people that use wine or alcoholic beverages to get drunk to party, have orgies, lose self control when they have things to watch for and business to do, when they blow all their money on alcohol to be drunk all the time, when they become addicted to it and so forth, these are foolish and unwise ways to consume alcohol. The Lord created all things and made they become as they are, I believe the Lord intended for vineyards to make grapes and wine for us to consume, but for us to consume it wisely and not use it in foolish ways of for ungodly things of sin.
Anyone agree? That's good. Anyone disagree? I won't hate you, but I just recommend you really study all over the many books that being this up and see why God has a problem with people drinking wine. Surely you must know, it's not what things are that make us sin, it's why and how we use things and do things that makes it sin.
That's like saying don't have sex. Well it's not sex alone that's a sin, it's how and why you have sex. Is it how God intended us to have it? Before or after marriage? For your own self pleasure or for a spouse? With multiple people or just your spouse alone? All things in this world can be used for good or sin. I know by understanding that and reading scripture, tasting or having a little wine isn't a sin, but becoming an alcoholic and trying to get drunk for sex and waste your life on it is a sin.
You want proof that these people are lying or either misunderstanding scripture?
Here are a few verses that claim alcohol can be a good thing.and as you read these, think about these things a bit deeply with a godly perspective, understand that when they say wine -it is alcoholic, not nonalcoholic grape juice;
1 Timothy 5:23 ESV
(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
Ecclesiastes 9;7
Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.
Proverbs 31;6
Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;
John 2;1-11
On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
There are other verses, but here you have scripture telling to drink together and be merry, to give a drink to someone who is perishing, you even have the Lord himself making it for a party. You constantly see verses about wine being alcoholic, so you know they don't mean grape juice.
But there are many verses saying how wine is bad, being drunk is bad and do on. But then you have these giving you multiple reasons why you should drink wine.
Do you think the Bible is contradicting itself? I find it that those who are the people that use wine or alcoholic beverages to get drunk to party, have orgies, lose self control when they have things to watch for and business to do, when they blow all their money on alcohol to be drunk all the time, when they become addicted to it and so forth, these are foolish and unwise ways to consume alcohol. The Lord created all things and made they become as they are, I believe the Lord intended for vineyards to make grapes and wine for us to consume, but for us to consume it wisely and not use it in foolish ways of for ungodly things of sin.
Anyone agree? That's good. Anyone disagree? I won't hate you, but I just recommend you really study all over the many books that being this up and see why God has a problem with people drinking wine. Surely you must know, it's not what things are that make us sin, it's why and how we use things and do things that makes it sin.
That's like saying don't have sex. Well it's not sex alone that's a sin, it's how and why you have sex. Is it how God intended us to have it? Before or after marriage? For your own self pleasure or for a spouse? With multiple people or just your spouse alone? All things in this world can be used for good or sin. I know by understanding that and reading scripture, tasting or having a little wine isn't a sin, but becoming an alcoholic and trying to get drunk for sex and waste your life on it is a sin.
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Occasionally, perhaps once a fortnight or so I like to enjoy an apple or pear cider or a glass of wine.
Every now and then I go to a bar with my workmates and have a beer with them on a Friday to connect with each other outside of work.
I do not promote drunkenness but to enjoy a drink for the sake of enjoyment as if you were just drinking water, soft drink of juice comes down to your conscience. I will not look down on anyone who chooses not to drink at all.
Every now and then I go to a bar with my workmates and have a beer with them on a Friday to connect with each other outside of work.
I do not promote drunkenness but to enjoy a drink for the sake of enjoyment as if you were just drinking water, soft drink of juice comes down to your conscience. I will not look down on anyone who chooses not to drink at all.
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I think it is fine to drink but know your limits and do not get drunk. I drink in social settings, max two glasses of wine or mixed drinks, sometimes I like to drink a beer with a burger. However I do not drink that often. I do not keep any wine in the home as I do love good wine, and I do not want to get in the habit of drinking alone.
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Short answer: I've never drank. I don't ever intend to. That's basically it.
To go more in depth, I'm largely motivated by two things. One is my personality/mental health issues. I don't trust at all to ever get into something potentially addictive. Knowing myself, I can almost guarantee I would become addict and destroy myself with drinking, smoking, drugs, etc. So I'm never going to touch those with a 10 ft pole.
The other motivation I think is how my mother raised me. She never drank either, was strongly anti-drinking because of her disappointment with how my grandfather was when she grew up with his severe drinking obsession and behavior. He nearly had a heart attack and finally gave up drinking at the time I was born, so I never knew that side of him. Nonetheless, it may have still been a bit little too late: he passed away from pancreatic cancer later on (which studies have suggested a link between this and alcohol.)
(On a similar note: his son - my uncle, also had a serious problem with smoking. A year after my grandfather passed away, my uncle also passed from lung issues.)
In more recent months, my own father has taken up sneaking alcohol into the house and becoming blatantly drunk some nights. We never had alcohol in the house during my life until recently. I'm not really too fond of the kind of behavior he has when he's drunk, either, so I can understand my mother's disappointment with my grandfather.
Oh, now that I think about it, I guess there is a third motivation also: nothing about alcohol sounds appealing to me in and of itself. I don't like it from a sensory standpoint. When I've smelled alcohol it smells toxic, I can't imagine ever desiring to taste that or put it in my body. And I certainly don't want whatever drunkening effect it would have on my mindset. I have a natural aversion to certain strong sensations, that's just me.
To go more in depth, I'm largely motivated by two things. One is my personality/mental health issues. I don't trust at all to ever get into something potentially addictive. Knowing myself, I can almost guarantee I would become addict and destroy myself with drinking, smoking, drugs, etc. So I'm never going to touch those with a 10 ft pole.
The other motivation I think is how my mother raised me. She never drank either, was strongly anti-drinking because of her disappointment with how my grandfather was when she grew up with his severe drinking obsession and behavior. He nearly had a heart attack and finally gave up drinking at the time I was born, so I never knew that side of him. Nonetheless, it may have still been a bit little too late: he passed away from pancreatic cancer later on (which studies have suggested a link between this and alcohol.)
(On a similar note: his son - my uncle, also had a serious problem with smoking. A year after my grandfather passed away, my uncle also passed from lung issues.)
In more recent months, my own father has taken up sneaking alcohol into the house and becoming blatantly drunk some nights. We never had alcohol in the house during my life until recently. I'm not really too fond of the kind of behavior he has when he's drunk, either, so I can understand my mother's disappointment with my grandfather.
Oh, now that I think about it, I guess there is a third motivation also: nothing about alcohol sounds appealing to me in and of itself. I don't like it from a sensory standpoint. When I've smelled alcohol it smells toxic, I can't imagine ever desiring to taste that or put it in my body. And I certainly don't want whatever drunkening effect it would have on my mindset. I have a natural aversion to certain strong sensations, that's just me.
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Personally, I don’t drink. There has been alcoholism on both sides of my family, but I was blessed to grow up without it. I don’t hate or judge others that do. For me, it’s a subject that brings sadness actually. Just thinking of how many people abuse it. The secular world doesn’t even know drunkenness is something God doesn’t like and it’s glorified in our media. How many movies and songs are about drinking? People in college have frat parties and adults go to bars. Yet the ones that leave it behind after following Christ I think is telling of what their experience with alcohol was like.
There are multiple passages in the Bible that mention wine, strong drink, drunkenness etcetera. It is not a sin to drink and some people do, but many people abuse it. Some passages were already given in support of drinking, but here are some against it:
“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18).
“Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them” (Isaiah 5:11).
“Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:21).
“Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:10).
So should a Christian drink? That is up to each person and their conscience. Drinking is not a sin, but drunkenness is. If someone can drink without getting drunk, that is fine for them. Like people often will have champagne at a wedding, Catholics have a sip of wine on Sundays (I used to be Catholic and my family on both sides is), there’s often cider on New Year’s, some people will have a beer after work, etcetera. To each his own. However…
“But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak” (1 Corinthlians 8:9).
“For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another” (Galatians 5:13).
“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16).
“Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8).
So while others may choose to drink, I in good conscience cannot. What message would it give to one less strong in the faith? One that might themselves abuse alcohol? What message would it give to our secular co-workers and friends? Why bring it into your house if you know it could bring temptation and problems to your loved ones? While sober, we have self control. Alcohol gets rid of people’s inhibitions, shutting down their frontal lobe, making them do things that they may never do otherwise. Why take that risk? If Satan looks for any opportunity to cause our destruction and that of others, why would I willingly open that door for him to act? Just to fit in, have fun, “relax,” or because everyone else does it? There are plenty of other ways to have fun and relax. We’re not called to fit in, but to be set apart.
For those of you thinking the above might sound like judging or that it’s “easy,” Jesus said to take up our cross and follow Him. It’s not always easy. You may be reading this thread and are having to make your own choice right now. We are human and in this broken world we can all still fall to temptation and sin. Our brain is wired to like pleasure and things like alcohol can “feel good.” It’s like the rats that press the pleasure button for dopamine until they die rather than the button for food. And drugs, don’t even go there. Through college and even while working, the opportunities and invitations were always there, but it’s okay to say no. Most people, even non-believers, usually respect your choice. At least ones I’ve come across. A few might insist, but if you’re consistent you can say no without being rude and they won’t get offended. Maybe baffled, but it’s not the end of the world.
So in summary, I won’t get offended if people choose to drink and hopefully they don’t take offense if I choose not to. Whether a believer or not. Many people have to make their own choice. For some it is a daily choice, “one day at a time.” Didn’t Paul say he died daily? If we die to ourselves, it’s so that Christ can live in us more. The flesh and the Holy Spirit are at war within each one of us. You can make a lifelong choice or a daily choice. Even if you drink, you can choose where, with who, and how much. Could it potentially harm anyone? Ask yourself if it’s an opportunity for your flesh or if it affects you or anyone around you. If you have kids, would you want them to see you under the influence of alcohol or in the future have them potentially abuse it? Think of how you can glorify God. If you don’t drink, doesn’t that stand out more? Would people not wonder and ask why you don’t drink? That could be an opportunity to share the gospel with them. We have the freedom in Christ to drink, and maybe that’s worked out fine for you. However, what if you could do more and God could use you more without it? Do you truly feel you need alcohol and what it brings to your life? “If anyone would come after me let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me” (Luke 9:23).
There are multiple passages in the Bible that mention wine, strong drink, drunkenness etcetera. It is not a sin to drink and some people do, but many people abuse it. Some passages were already given in support of drinking, but here are some against it:
“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18).
“Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them” (Isaiah 5:11).
“Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:21).
“Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:10).
So should a Christian drink? That is up to each person and their conscience. Drinking is not a sin, but drunkenness is. If someone can drink without getting drunk, that is fine for them. Like people often will have champagne at a wedding, Catholics have a sip of wine on Sundays (I used to be Catholic and my family on both sides is), there’s often cider on New Year’s, some people will have a beer after work, etcetera. To each his own. However…
“But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak” (1 Corinthlians 8:9).
“For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another” (Galatians 5:13).
“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16).
“Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8).
So while others may choose to drink, I in good conscience cannot. What message would it give to one less strong in the faith? One that might themselves abuse alcohol? What message would it give to our secular co-workers and friends? Why bring it into your house if you know it could bring temptation and problems to your loved ones? While sober, we have self control. Alcohol gets rid of people’s inhibitions, shutting down their frontal lobe, making them do things that they may never do otherwise. Why take that risk? If Satan looks for any opportunity to cause our destruction and that of others, why would I willingly open that door for him to act? Just to fit in, have fun, “relax,” or because everyone else does it? There are plenty of other ways to have fun and relax. We’re not called to fit in, but to be set apart.
For those of you thinking the above might sound like judging or that it’s “easy,” Jesus said to take up our cross and follow Him. It’s not always easy. You may be reading this thread and are having to make your own choice right now. We are human and in this broken world we can all still fall to temptation and sin. Our brain is wired to like pleasure and things like alcohol can “feel good.” It’s like the rats that press the pleasure button for dopamine until they die rather than the button for food. And drugs, don’t even go there. Through college and even while working, the opportunities and invitations were always there, but it’s okay to say no. Most people, even non-believers, usually respect your choice. At least ones I’ve come across. A few might insist, but if you’re consistent you can say no without being rude and they won’t get offended. Maybe baffled, but it’s not the end of the world.
So in summary, I won’t get offended if people choose to drink and hopefully they don’t take offense if I choose not to. Whether a believer or not. Many people have to make their own choice. For some it is a daily choice, “one day at a time.” Didn’t Paul say he died daily? If we die to ourselves, it’s so that Christ can live in us more. The flesh and the Holy Spirit are at war within each one of us. You can make a lifelong choice or a daily choice. Even if you drink, you can choose where, with who, and how much. Could it potentially harm anyone? Ask yourself if it’s an opportunity for your flesh or if it affects you or anyone around you. If you have kids, would you want them to see you under the influence of alcohol or in the future have them potentially abuse it? Think of how you can glorify God. If you don’t drink, doesn’t that stand out more? Would people not wonder and ask why you don’t drink? That could be an opportunity to share the gospel with them. We have the freedom in Christ to drink, and maybe that’s worked out fine for you. However, what if you could do more and God could use you more without it? Do you truly feel you need alcohol and what it brings to your life? “If anyone would come after me let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me” (Luke 9:23).
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I am going to ruffle a lot of feathers because I do not believe that Christians should drink alcohol other than for medicinal purposes because of the following bible verses:
The bible verse that suggests that alcohol can be used for medicinal purposes is in 1 Timothy 5:23, where Paul advises Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach and frequent infirmities.
I also heard a sermon many years ago that the Jesus actually turned water into unfermented wine (which is grape juice). The speaker explained that the New Testament was originally written in Greek and some words were not translated properly into English.
For example, you have different types of love in the original Greek text such a Agape (Unconditional love), Eros (Romantic love), Philia (Brotherly/Affectionate love) etc.
But when it was translated into English, the English bible just says love. It does not specify whether it unconditional love, brotherly love or romantic love.
The speaker said that in the original Greek bible, it says Jesus turned water into unfermented wine, but in the English bible only the word “wine” is included and the word “unfermented” has been left out. Therefore Jesus did not turn water into alcohol.
I do not know Greek, so I cannot confirm that what he said, but in light of the other bible verses saying negative things about alcohol, it is reasonable to assume that he is correct.
- Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
- Ephesians 5:18 - And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit
- Isaiah 5:22 -Woe to those who are heroes in drinking wine And valiant men in mixing strong drink
- Galatians 5:19-21 - Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The bible verse that suggests that alcohol can be used for medicinal purposes is in 1 Timothy 5:23, where Paul advises Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach and frequent infirmities.
I also heard a sermon many years ago that the Jesus actually turned water into unfermented wine (which is grape juice). The speaker explained that the New Testament was originally written in Greek and some words were not translated properly into English.
For example, you have different types of love in the original Greek text such a Agape (Unconditional love), Eros (Romantic love), Philia (Brotherly/Affectionate love) etc.
But when it was translated into English, the English bible just says love. It does not specify whether it unconditional love, brotherly love or romantic love.
The speaker said that in the original Greek bible, it says Jesus turned water into unfermented wine, but in the English bible only the word “wine” is included and the word “unfermented” has been left out. Therefore Jesus did not turn water into alcohol.
I do not know Greek, so I cannot confirm that what he said, but in light of the other bible verses saying negative things about alcohol, it is reasonable to assume that he is correct.
So for me, I don’t mind a drink after coming home from work or for celebrating, I just realized I might have been drinking more than usual, cause I bought some drinks, but I just need self control that’s all. But for me, I refuse to get drunk, I have one can or one glass bottle, and that’s it. I’m also talking about how most of my alcohol is basically 3-4% alcohol, so it’s not an entire big glass bottle/or a bunch of cans. One and that’s it. If I do a big bottle, it’s usually one of those single bottle you buy, not a thing like how big a wine glass is, for example.
I just drink because I find it relaxing, and the drinks can taste good, plus it makes me feel like a grownup, lol...yes a 25 year old feels more adult when drinking, lol. But my mom has even said it’s okay if I’m not into drinking, and has asked me if I’m into it, because she and my stepdad do causal drinking, but I’m doing it cause I just want to.
My mom has stated if she drinks wine, even a small bit, she doesn’t feel like doing bible study, she says it’s a “herself thing” but I think that is the right mindset to have, it lets you treat bible study with respect, as it should have. I have seen people in my life get drunk, when my brother turned 21, he drank so much he passed out outside. Plus, my mom has a Christian friend who is against drinking, but she is still friends with my mom who drinks here and there, and always responsibly, but we don’t judge my mom’s friend and we respect and understand her decision on not wanting to drink alcohol.
So overall, I see no problem with drinking alcohol, but once it becomes an addiction or you drink to get drunk, that’s where I have to step in and say it is wrong. It is possible to drink responsibly, plenty of people do it.
I just drink because I find it relaxing, and the drinks can taste good, plus it makes me feel like a grownup, lol...yes a 25 year old feels more adult when drinking, lol. But my mom has even said it’s okay if I’m not into drinking, and has asked me if I’m into it, because she and my stepdad do causal drinking, but I’m doing it cause I just want to.
My mom has stated if she drinks wine, even a small bit, she doesn’t feel like doing bible study, she says it’s a “herself thing” but I think that is the right mindset to have, it lets you treat bible study with respect, as it should have. I have seen people in my life get drunk, when my brother turned 21, he drank so much he passed out outside. Plus, my mom has a Christian friend who is against drinking, but she is still friends with my mom who drinks here and there, and always responsibly, but we don’t judge my mom’s friend and we respect and understand her decision on not wanting to drink alcohol.
So overall, I see no problem with drinking alcohol, but once it becomes an addiction or you drink to get drunk, that’s where I have to step in and say it is wrong. It is possible to drink responsibly, plenty of people do it.
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Drunkenness Is what is referred to in all of these scriptures you Have shared. And it is right drunkenness is a sin - just as gluttony is a sin.
BUT - In both these cases the bible refers to the excess of consumption. One of alcoholic beverages and another of food. The wine and the food are not evil, but the “lusting and consuming greedily To excess” of either One is a sin. (However, if you still feel it is a sin to drink wine, of Course you must not drink it. )
BUT - In both these cases the bible refers to the excess of consumption. One of alcoholic beverages and another of food. The wine and the food are not evil, but the “lusting and consuming greedily To excess” of either One is a sin. (However, if you still feel it is a sin to drink wine, of Course you must not drink it. )
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There is no Greek word for fermented or unfermented wine. However the word wine did apply to both. So in the first century a freshly crushed vat of grape juice was still called wine.
Google the author Cato and his writings on the technical details of wine making. He was a popular author and expert on the subject during this time. His writings give us an insight into what they meant when they used phrases like new wine, best wine, etc. Different than what we would mean today.
There is documented evidence that unfermented wine cost more (because it did not last long and keeping it below 52 degrees in mountain streams was a costly storage procedure) but this does not automatically equate to calling it "best wine" There is no reason to reject the idea of fermented wine being used at the Jewish feasts of passover or at the wedding or even in normal table meals, but what is important to understand is that it was almost ALWAYS diluted with two to three parts water. This was to make it stretch and to keep it from intoxicating without being overindulgent. Nothing like todays 9 to 13 percent alcohol content. This is well documented in writings from the period, even Plato references the common practice of diluting wine with water.
Therefore if you understand that when the Pharisees called Jesus a wine bibber (over indulger) because he was seen drinking wine with sinners, they were assuming that Jesus was being over indulgent because the sinners that were eating with him were known to do so. He was guilty by association in their eyes.
To say that one can have a glass of wine and not be guilty of getting intoxicated, because Jesus did, I would suggest that you add two parts water to the glass first so you can really be following the same custom. If you loose interest in having the glass after diluting it then then your motive might have been the buzz and not the nutrition.
Keep it real saints.
Also, in prophecy from the Old Testament about the coming Kingdom of God one of the striking poetic phrase repeated was about how there would be an abundance of flowing wine in that day. This of course is a typology of the spiritual things in the eternal Kingdom still future, but that the promise was being fulfilled was made a point of by Jesus turning the water into wine. It was the announcement of the New Covenant and the Better Covenant that Jesus was bringing. This was his FIRST miracle and made a statement about the better covenant.
Google the author Cato and his writings on the technical details of wine making. He was a popular author and expert on the subject during this time. His writings give us an insight into what they meant when they used phrases like new wine, best wine, etc. Different than what we would mean today.
There is documented evidence that unfermented wine cost more (because it did not last long and keeping it below 52 degrees in mountain streams was a costly storage procedure) but this does not automatically equate to calling it "best wine" There is no reason to reject the idea of fermented wine being used at the Jewish feasts of passover or at the wedding or even in normal table meals, but what is important to understand is that it was almost ALWAYS diluted with two to three parts water. This was to make it stretch and to keep it from intoxicating without being overindulgent. Nothing like todays 9 to 13 percent alcohol content. This is well documented in writings from the period, even Plato references the common practice of diluting wine with water.
Therefore if you understand that when the Pharisees called Jesus a wine bibber (over indulger) because he was seen drinking wine with sinners, they were assuming that Jesus was being over indulgent because the sinners that were eating with him were known to do so. He was guilty by association in their eyes.
To say that one can have a glass of wine and not be guilty of getting intoxicated, because Jesus did, I would suggest that you add two parts water to the glass first so you can really be following the same custom. If you loose interest in having the glass after diluting it then then your motive might have been the buzz and not the nutrition.
Keep it real saints.Also, in prophecy from the Old Testament about the coming Kingdom of God one of the striking poetic phrase repeated was about how there would be an abundance of flowing wine in that day. This of course is a typology of the spiritual things in the eternal Kingdom still future, but that the promise was being fulfilled was made a point of by Jesus turning the water into wine. It was the announcement of the New Covenant and the Better Covenant that Jesus was bringing. This was his FIRST miracle and made a statement about the better covenant.
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I see you’re relatively new Tararose. I don’t know but if you’re generalizing perhaps you’ve had some previous negative experiences on here? Don’t take it personally. Not everybody on the site is Christian and some people may be having a bad day or a bad time in general, we don’t know. Though that post is apparently old, people are responding to the thread now. I’m sure that sort of thing happens in other threads that for whatever reason get resurrected again. Anyway, hope the majority of your interactions are positive. Welcome
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I see you’re relatively new Tararose. I don’t know but if you’re generalizing perhaps you’ve had some previous negative experiences on here? Don’t take it personally. Not everybody on the site is Christian and some people may be having a bad day or a bad time in general, we don’t know. Though that post is apparently old, people are responding to the thread now. I’m sure that sort of thing happens in other threads that for whatever reason get resurrected again. Anyway, hope the majority of your interactions are positive. Welcome
I am fairly new and despite my response I definitely haven’t found everyone to be as I said there. I have been shocked by some posts though, not the content but the way people speak to each other at times makes me cringe. Especially when they seem to be all out for Christ at times in other posts. I don’t know who is saved and who isn’t but I know how it must look to the world and the devil must be lapping it up at times.
You are definitely right, none of us are perfect and I sure don’t always respond as I should. I don’t know if this is going to work but I used the ignore button when certain people found me offensive. I hopefully won’t be able to accidentally respond to their posts and tempt them to be unkind. I really don’t want to cause anyone to stumble in their words. Saved or not. I don’t know if the ignore button will work that way though? Do you know?
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My experience is that if you resurrect a thread on accident, then usually you get 5 people steadily posting after you to complain that you posted on an old thread, lol. But I don't think it's anyone's fault when we don't notice because the site interface doesn't lock them or somehow mark them "don't post!" If it's out there people will post. I used to search threads by keyword because I didn't want to open new if it already exists, but oh whatever I stopped doing it, always open a new one now because some regularly get flustered about it... I asked before in Suggestions if old threads without posts for a long time can be auto locked, no nothing can be done about it.
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