GRACE

[luigi]

A basic definition for Grace is that of simple elegance or refinement of movement. By this definition we understand the grace of elegance to be an effect due to a prior cause of being refined.

Likewise, if the Grace of God then is our being refined, would our being refined not require some effort on our part, such as offering up ourselves as living sacrifices, away from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus setting ourselves apart (sanctifying ourselves), being made holy, and acceptable to God?

Otherwise, if we do not set ourselves apart from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus are not sanctified, How are we then being refined in the Spirit, when both the flesh and the Spirit are at war with the other?

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Dino246]

A basic definition for Grace is that of simple elegance or refinement of movement. By this definition we understand the grace of elegance to be an effect due to a prior cause of being refined.

Likewise, if the Grace of God then is our being refined, would our being refined not require some effort on our part, such as offering up ourselves as living sacrifices, away from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus setting ourselves apart (sanctifying ourselves), being made holy, and acceptable to God?

Otherwise, if we do not set ourselves apart from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus are not sanctified, How are we then being refined in the Spirit, when both the flesh and the Spirit are at war with the other?

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Respectfully, you've employed the fallacy of equivocation, which is using a word that has multiple meanings in a specific context with a meaning appropriate for a different context. I suggest that you look up the definitions (plural) of 'grace' in a good dictionary.

 

[luigi]

Respectfully, you've employed the fallacy of equivocation, which is using a word that has multiple meanings in a specific context with a meaning appropriate for a different context. I suggest that you look up the definitions (plural) of 'grace' in a good dictionary.

If you disagree with my perspective of Gods grace being where I am refined, maybe then you should provide your own definition for Gods grace, rather than simply disagree.

 

[luigi]

How can one be refined by Gods grace, if one keeps adding dross into the mix? The mix will always be polluted, unless one makes themself a living sacrifice, repenting and putting away their worldly carnal sins.

 

[Dino246]

If you disagree with my perspective of Gods grace being where I am refined, maybe then you should provide your own definition for Gods grace, rather than simply disagree.

I didn't "simply disagree". I told you that you're employing a fallacy of logic, and as such, your entire premise is flawed.

 

[luigi]

I didn't "simply disagree". I told you that you're employing a fallacy of logic, and as such, your entire premise is flawed.

Adding words like "fallacy of logic" is your disagreement, and without providing any explanation as to why my perspective of Gods grace representing His refining of people is a fallacy of logic.
We are saved by grace, having been refined.

 

[Dino246]

Adding words like "fallacy of logic" is your disagreement, and without providing any explanation as to why my perspective of Gods grace representing His refining of people is a fallacy of logic.

Look at the adjective forms of the word "grace": someone who exercises the grace you defined would be called "graceful", like an experienced ballet dancer, while someone who exercises godly grace would be called "gracious". The two meanings are related but distinct, and using the one sense in place of the other is equivocating.

Pointing out your fallacy is not disagreeing with you; rather, it's saying that your argument is flawed. In other words, there is no valid point with which to disagree.

We are saved by grace, having been refined.

Um, no, refinement is subsequent to salvation, not prior to it; see Philippians 1:6. The thief on the cross was not "refined" prior to Jesus saying that he would be with Jesus in paradise. Refinement may be likened to the life-long process of sanctification, or the conforming to Christlikeness which begins at salvation at ends at glorification.

 

[throughfaith]

A basic definition for Grace is that of simple elegance or refinement of movement. By this definition we understand the grace of elegance to be an effect due to a prior cause of being refined.

Likewise, if the Grace of God then is our being refined, would our being refined not require some effort on our part, such as offering up ourselves as living sacrifices, away from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus setting ourselves apart (sanctifying ourselves), being made holy, and acceptable to God?

Otherwise, if we do not set ourselves apart from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus are not sanctified, How are we then being refined in the Spirit, when both the flesh and the Spirit are at war with the other?

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Good grief . Its like click bait. Take one word that means essentially Gods riches at Christ's expense and spin it into works salvation ?

 

[luigi]

Look at the adjective forms of the word "grace": someone who exercises the grace you defined would be called "graceful", like an experienced ballet dancer, while someone who exercises godly grace would be called "gracious". The two meanings are related but distinct, and using the one sense in place of the other is equivocating.

Pointing out your fallacy is not disagreeing with you; rather, it's saying that your argument is flawed. In other words, there is no valid point with which to disagree.


Um, no, refinement is subsequent to salvation, not prior to it; see Philippians 1:6. The thief on the cross was not "refined" prior to Jesus saying that he would be with Jesus in paradise. Refinement may be likened to the life-long process of sanctification, or the conforming to Christlikeness which begins at salvation at ends at glorification.

When the Holy Spirit comes into the equation, we are then enlightened, and subsequently refined, if so we choose to be.
We are then either saved by Gods grace that refines those of us who choose to be refined, or we are not saved by Gods grace by those of us who choose not to be refined, rather choosing to be conformed to the world and its lusts.

You cannot continue to add pollutants to a mix and expect to be refined by Gods grace.

 

[luigi]

Good grief . Its like click bait. Take one word that means essentially Gods riches at Christ's expense and spin it into works salvation ?

Acts 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

If Gods grace builds one up, it is then refining the individual. And if one is being built up and refined, then it follows that such an individual has left much of their worldly carnal sins behind them. Whether leaving one's sins behind us are works or aren't, it still remains that the Spirit and our worldly carnal inclinations are in opposition to each other, and we then will either gravitate towards one or the other. Either the Spirit will be your master, or your flesh will be your master.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[throughfaith]

Acts 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

If Gods grace builds one up, it is then refining the individual. And if one is being built up and refined, then it follows that such an individual has left much of their worldly carnal sins behind them. Whether leaving one's sins behind us are works or aren't, it still remains that the Spirit and our worldly carnal inclinations are in opposition to each other, and we then will either gravitate towards one or the other. Either the Spirit will be your master, or your flesh will be your master.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Eph 1 .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 2
8For by GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[throughfaith]

Acts 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

If Gods grace builds one up, it is then refining the individual. And if one is being built up and refined, then it follows that such an individual has left much of their worldly carnal sins behind them. Whether leaving one's sins behind us are works or aren't, it still remains that the Spirit and our worldly carnal inclinations are in opposition to each other, and we then will either gravitate towards one or the other. Either the Spirit will be your master, or your flesh will be your master.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Acts 20.32 word of his grace. 'Word of ' Luke 16 32 referring to the Jews in the old testament?

 

[luigi]

Eph 1 .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 2
8For by GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

"For we are Gods workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works", means God is refining those of us who through Gods grace choose to be refined by leaving their worldly carnal sins behind them.

 

[luigi]

Acts 20.32 word of his grace. 'Word of ' Luke 16 32 referring to the Jews in the old testament?

Were just the Jews built up by Gods grace, and not others who believe in the gospel of Christ? The Word of God applies to everyone who believes.

 

[throughfaith]

Were just the Jews built up by Gods grace, and not others who believe in the gospel of Christ? The Word of God applies to everyone who believes.

My point was we are saved by grace through faith and that not of our selves . Other passages mention the word grace in different context. like ' grace and peace to you " from Paul ect .

 

[luigi]

My point was we are saved by grace through faith and that not of our selves . Other passages mention the word grace in different context. like ' grace and peace to you " from Paul ect .

I don't know if grace and peace to you is in a different context. It's like saying enlightenment and peace to you. It is after all the Holy Spirit's enlightenment of us that affects our building up and refining.

 

[Blade]

For me seems your going with.. as I read it the worlds definition. And looking into the word of Gods meaning.. I can't see how you came up with refined? Maybe I read it wrong but.. I didn't think you were talking about "salvation"

 

[Dino246]

When the Holy Spirit comes into the equation, we are then enlightened, and subsequently refined, if so we choose to be.
We are then either saved by Gods grace that refines those of us who choose to be refined, or we are not saved by Gods grace by those of us who choose not to be refined, rather choosing to be conformed to the world and its lusts.

You have this backwards. God doesn't clean the 'fish' before He catches them.

You still have not conceded the point regarding the meaning of 'grace'.

You cannot continue to add pollutants to a mix and expect to be refined by Gods grace.

What does that have to do with the subject?

 

[luigi]

For me seems your going with.. as I read it the worlds definition. And looking into the word of Gods meaning.. I can't see how you came up with refined? Maybe I read it wrong but.. I didn't think you were talking about "salvation"

Salvation is a result from Gods grace upon those who believe. So what is Gods grace? In my opinion, Gods grace I believe to be synonymous with the Holy Spirit who enlightens us with Gods Way which is spiritual.

 

[luigi]

You have this backwards. God doesn't clean the 'fish' before He catches them.

You still have not conceded the point regarding the meaning of 'grace'.

We (the fish) are expected to repent of our worldly carnal inclinations, which then allows God to clean us, if we so choose to not be conformed to this world.

What does that have to do with the subject?

If I continue to be conformed to the world by indulging in my worldly carnal inclinations, I am then adding pollutants to the mix, and thereby disaffecting any spiritual refining the Holy Spirit undertakes with me. We cannot serve two masters, you are either going to be conformed to your worldly carnal sins, or you will repent and leave your carnal sins, thereby not conforming with the world, in which case Gods grace will refine you.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.