Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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BenjaminN

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#781
Oct 7, 2020
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#781
throughfaith said:
Remember you've got actual grace given to you before you existed , before Adam, before the fall , before the law , before God the Son became a baby, before his ministry as messiah, before his death burial and resurrection and before the giving of the Holy Spirit. Before the Gospel of grace is preached, before your parents were born , before you were born , before you heard the gospel, before you were saved by GRACE through FAITH , before you recieved Jesus , before you were in him , recieved the Holy Spirit, baptised into the body of christ ect ect ?????
Really? Let's see

OIC1965 said:
Yep. That’s what 2 Timothy 1:9 says, champ. Grace given us before the world began.
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1 Peter 1 (KV)

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 
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soggykitten

Well-known member
#782
Jul 3, 2020
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#782
Budman said:
You won't answer it, because you can't. And the reason you can't is because you are backed into a corner - thus, you take the easy way out.
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I have answered it repeatedly. Your attack is an example of weak Exegesis. The corner is yours. And from that seat you take peoples posts and twist them into your own weird belief system and then attack them for thinking your way.
And afterward the easy way out of that is to attack me and those others whose posts you do that to as if I/we are the one(s) that do not understand.
And that part is partly correct as far as my view of your pretzel exegesis tactics.

I'll never ever understand the mindset that denies baptism is in any way at all related to salvation.
Well, that's not exactly true. I do know those who think that way but they aren't silly enough to say they follow that one that baptized and taught his Apostles to do the same.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#784
Aug 4, 2020
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#784
BenjaminN said:
throughfaith said:
Remember you've got actual grace given to you before you existed , before Adam, before the fall , before the law , before God the Son became a baby, before his ministry as messiah, before his death burial and resurrection and before the giving of the Holy Spirit. Before the Gospel of grace is preached, before your parents were born , before you were born , before you heard the gospel, before you were saved by GRACE through FAITH , before you recieved Jesus , before you were in him , recieved the Holy Spirit, baptised into the body of christ ect ect ?????
Really? Let's see




1 Peter 1 (KV)

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
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Peter is referring to the Elect ( Jews ) .
This verse also.
2 tim 2.10
10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that THEY MAY ALSO obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
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BenjaminN

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#785
Oct 7, 2020
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#785
throughfaith said:
Gentiles . We don't become Israel.
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Jews and Gentiles are of the commonwealth of Israel, his Church built on Jesus' / Yeshua's apostle Peter the rock, restored under the new covenant, by the blood of our King Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.
 
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soggykitten

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#786
Jul 3, 2020
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#786
GraceAndTruth said:
How many ways can I say.........saved by the atonement (propitiation
To be saved we must have needed to be saved from something.
the "something" is the penalty that God demand for the sin payment.
The propitiation made that payment. We are saved by the propitation of Christ.
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Oddly you can't say the answer to the question you repeatedly avoid.

We are saved by grace through faith! There would be nothing to hold faith in if God's grace did not come first.
 
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BenjaminN

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#788
Oct 7, 2020
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#788
throughfaith said:
Peter is referring to the Elect ( Jews ) .
This verse also.
2 tim 2.10
10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that THEY MAY ALSO obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
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Do you honestly believe that only Jews (three tribes of Jacob/Israel ie. Judah, Benjamin and Levi) are elect and Gentiles and the other ten scattered tribes of Israel are not God's elect under the new covenant of grace?
 
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throughfaith

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#789
Aug 4, 2020
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#789
BenjaminN said:
Jews and Gentiles are of the commonwealth of Israel, his Church built on Jesus' / Yeshua's apostle Peter the rock, restored under the new covenant, by the blood of our King Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.
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peter is the rock now is he ? Gentiles become Israel and we have to say Yashua to be the real deal ?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#790
Aug 4, 2020
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#790
BenjaminN said:
Do you honestly believe that only Jews (three tribes of Jacob/Israel ie. Judah, Benjamin and Levi) are elect and Gentiles and the other ten scattered tribes of Israel are not God's elect under the new covenant of grace?
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There is no ' covenant of grace ' . And the ' elect ' are always the jews
 
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BenjaminN

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#791
Oct 7, 2020
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#791
throughfaith said:
Ok let's pick a random verse in Chronicles and try make that fit also .
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It was not a random verse, both scriptures referred to God's renewed covenant with Israel, of which Jews and Gentiles are part of.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#792
Aug 4, 2020
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#792
BenjaminN said:
Jews and Gentiles are of the commonwealth of Israel, his Church built on Jesus' / Yeshua's apostle Peter the rock, restored under the new covenant, by the blood of our King Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.
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We were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#793
Oct 7, 2020
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#793
throughfaith said:
peter is the rock now is he ? Gentiles become Israel and we have to say Yashua to be the real deal ?
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Are you blaspheming the name of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Maschiach the son of God? I will end this conversation if that is the case.


Matthew 16 (ESV)

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#794
Aug 4, 2020
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#794
BenjaminN said:
Are you blaspheming the name of Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Maschiach the son of God? I will end this conversation if that is the case.


Matthew 16 (ESV)

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
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so the Lord JESUS christ was going to build his Church on the very person who did not understand the gospel until mathew 28 , tries to stop the crucifixion by chopping a man's ear off. Denies the Lord three times, Jesus tells him " get behind me satan " . He doesn't understand that the gentiles are included until 10 years after acts 2 ? And Paul has to rebuke him for his hypocrisy. Nd then Paul mentions nothing of Peter in the book of Romans and we only have two letters compared to 13 epistles from Paul which is where the majority of CHURCH doctrine is to be found . Hmmm ?
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#795
Sep 28, 2015
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#795
soggykitten said:
Oddly you can't say the answer to the question you repeatedly avoid.

We are saved by grace through faith! There would be nothing to hold faith in if God's grace did not come first.
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Don't be getting snippy with me.
I have answered that many times in different forums.
grace is God giving merit to those who have no merit........so grace is actually bestowed at the foundation of the world.
 
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throughfaith

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#796
Aug 4, 2020
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#796
OIC1965 said:
It was given in eternity (predestinated) Verse 9 and realized/ actuated in time. (salvation) verse 10.

Fits my view as well.
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We are saved by grace through faith. Its though Faith not before we existed .
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#797
Sep 28, 2015
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#797
soggykitten said:
I have answered it repeatedly. Your attack is an example of weak Exegesis. The corner is yours. And from that seat you take peoples posts and twist them into your own weird belief system and then attack them for thinking your way.
And afterward the easy way out of that is to attack me and those others whose posts you do that to as if I/we are the one(s) that do not understand.
And that part is partly correct as far as my view of your pretzel exegesis tactics.

I'll never ever understand the mindset that denies baptism is in any way at all related to salvation.
Well, that's not exactly true. I do know those who think that way but they aren't silly enough to say they follow that one that baptized and taught his Apostles to do the same.
Click to expand...
Your exegesis isn't so great either.
The baptism of Jesus (Nazarene purification) is not the same as baptism for believers.
Water baptism for believers is by immersion, and still imitates the purification, but is synbolic of the dying of the old man and bring forth the new man.
Water will get you wet but true salvation comes by the of the propitiation..nothing else.
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#798
Sep 19, 2020
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#798
throughfaith said:
Strangers and without hope and without God . Sure this sounds like we were given grace before we were born? And i assume some were not given grace before they were born ?
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Predestined before time. Actuated in time.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#800
Sep 28, 2015
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#800
The Law has always been our tutor to lead us to Christ. It points to what God considers to be sin, instead of man-made offences.
At one time it was considered sinful to chew gum, obviously in jealousy by those who had no teeth.

If you want to keep the Law, there are 613 of them..........go for it.
I prefer to put my eternal security in the hands of the One who bought me.
 
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