Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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throughfaith

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How you came to think Ephesians 1:5 teaches that predestination happens after conversion is unfathomable. The syntax of that verse and the surrounding context make that utterly untenable

you say that God foreknows and predestinate us to adoption after we believe. But Romans 8:28-30 puts foreknpwledge and predestination BEFORE calling and before justification.
Why do you believe were saved in a chronological order ( aside from glorification) ? I think Eph 1 .12-13 actually says " and after this, After that ect .
 

BenjaminN

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Does even Satan believe the Gospel truth, that Jesus / Yeshua died for the sins of God's people, and was resurrected and ascended to heaven, and reigns in righteousness from the right hand of God the Father?

James 2 (ESV)

13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
 

OIC1965

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Why do you believe were saved in a chronological order ( aside from glorification) ?
Even if it’s not a chronological order, it’s the same conclusion. Predestination is based on foreknowledge. Calling results in justification. And the end result is glorification.

It’s put in the order it’s in for a reason. Paul is not a haphazard writer.
 

OIC1965

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Why do you believe were saved in a chronological order ( aside from glorification) ? I think Eph 1 .12-13 actually says " and after this, After that ect .
Nowhere does the Bible teach that God’s foreknowledge and predestination begins in time.
 

throughfaith

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I’ve already answered you on this in the affirmative several times.
Ok and as I've repeated myself several times. Could you remind me how you differentiate the two . Is it God elected you to be converted in his mind and then chose the destination ahead of time ? Which destination? To be converted ?
 

throughfaith

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Even if it’s not a chronological order, it’s the same conclusion. Predestination is based on foreknowledge. Calling results in justification. And the end result is glorification.

It’s put in the order it’s in for a reason. Paul is not a haphazard writer.
It doesn't say " and based on this ,therefore that " . It just says the package ,so to speak .I think a lot of weight is put onto this apparent so called by the reformers. THE GOLDEN CHAIN OF REDEMPTION " You have to say it like that , loud and with a slight echo lol
 

OIC1965

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It doesn't say " and based on this ,therefore that " . It just says the package ,so to speak .
It says to whom God did this, He also did this. In other words, those God foreknew, He predestinated. And those He predestinated, He called and those He called He justified, and those He justified, He glorified.

They’re all connected. And they are all inseparable realities for those who are saved.
 

throughfaith

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Nowhere does the Bible teach that God’s foreknowledge and predestination begins in time.
it makes perfect sense that God would only choose the destination ahead of time for all those that are in him ,to be glorified.
 

throughfaith

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It says to whom God did this, He also did this. In other words, those God foreknew, He predestinated. And those He predestinated, He called and those He called He justified, and those He justified, He glorified.

They’re all connected. And they are all inseparable realities for those who are saved.
And why is Paul sharing this information in light of the whole chapter?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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It says to whom God did this, He also did this. In other words, those God foreknew, He predestinated. And those He predestinated, He called and those He called He justified, and those He justified, He glorified.

They’re all connected. And they are all inseparable realities for those who are saved.
There is only one destination for those that are not in him when they die..They will not be glorified.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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Does even Satan believe the Gospel truth, that Jesus / Yeshua died for the sins of God's people, and was resurrected and ascended to heaven, and reigns in righteousness from the right hand of God the Father?

James 2 (ESV)

13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Where does it say the believe in the Gospel ?
 

OIC1965

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When do we get in him ? thats the answer .No un converted person is predestined .
“In Christ” has basically the same meaning in Eph. 1:4 that it has in Ephesians 3:11. He purposed in Christ. He chose in Christ. It’s not talking about our position in these texts.
 

throughfaith

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Please see Paul’s use of the phrase “ in Christ” in 2 Timothy 1:9
Yes and it actually supports what I'm saying about eph 1
8¶Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Ok what was given to us in Christ before the world began ?
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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Yes and it actually supports what I'm saying about eph 1
8¶Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Ok what was given to us in Christ before the world began ?
Grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. But wait..,we weren’t in Christ then. DOESNT MATTER because that’s not what Paul is saying.

Please see the use of “ in Christ” in Ephesians 3:11.