The Holy Spirit's different roles

[throughfaith]

So you do not apply anything that was said to the Disciples by Jesus in scripture? FYI You do know That Jesus said everything to the disciples right? You are dodging my question and to suggest it is " adding to the Text and assumption" is just ridiculous.

That is your explanation of John 20:22 and Luke 24:49 and acts 1:8 when you hav e already said they have the Holy Spirit and there is no second work of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus said to the grand wait for why?

I said there's no ' second work ' or ' second blessing ' or " quick over there hes in that room , go get your second blessing " , today . Today ,the moment we believe we recieve . We all recieve the same Spirit ONCE who baptises us ONCE into the body . There's not the have and the have nots. Those have the second blessing and those that don't.
Col 2
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[CharliRenee]

Let's talk about how the Holy Spirit has different roles in dealing with individual believers and groups in churches.

What happens when someone believes in Jesus? They receive the Holy Spirit in their soul.

John_6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

2Corinthians_1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Now-- what happens when they are gathered with other believers as a church?

In Acts-- you see empowerment from the Holy Spirit in a different role to giving eternal salvation in sealing someone who believes. Instead they are working in churches , 'in the midst' of them. In the early churches-- the Holy Spirit was doing signs and wonders with the empowering.. now He is more in encouragement, empowerment, rebuke, teaching, without extensive signs and wonders.

What you see though-- is there is receiving the Holy Spirit for an individual believer.. then there is also a group of believers receiving the Holy Spirit as a new church, or a whole group being empowered.

For eg.. group/church situations..

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

(Act 19:1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

(Act 19:2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

(Act 19:3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

(Act 19:4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

(Act 19:5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


So then.. when Paul had asked the disciples he saw-- disciples taught by Apollos.. have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?

Had they received the Holy Spirit when they believed-- but had not received the Holy Spirit as a group to be empowered?

Not knowing about the Holy Spirit does not mean they did not each get sealed by the Holy Spirit when they believed. They would have believed in Jesus-- knowing Him.. that is enough.

There is a big difference between being empowered by the Holy Spirit as a church/group and being individually given eternal life.

So what are your thoughts?

Well hopefully the individual believer comes to Him, one on One, receiving through faith, our Lord and Savior.

Then...

come together as a body of Christ, serving Him and others, all for His Glory. We will, hopefully, always seek and have an intimate relationship with Him, but that relationship should be demonstrated in how we walk out that faith with all others, especially our brethren.

 

[CS1]

not sure how you apply Luke 24.49 to today as its speaking to the diciples .
49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon YOU : but tarry YE in the city of Jerusalem, until YE be endued with power from on high.
50¶And he led THEM out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed THEM.
51And it came to pass, while he blessed THEM he was parted from THEM, and carried up into heaven.
And Acts 1.8
6When THEY therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

The same way you apply John 3:16 Rom 10:9-10 the "B" attitudes of Matthew 5. I guess you see " Tarry" as they never left the upper room?
what is this mumbo jumbo the Gospel of Luke end with Jesus accenting into sky. Acts 1:8 provides more context to that event and Luke recorded the last words of Jesu in Acts 1:8 but if you read Acts 1:5 They were told to expect the Holy Spirit. Jesu last words were to receive power to be a witness.

 

[throughfaith]

So you disagree that Luke and Acts are not contextual parallel books? I take it you did not agree with contextual unit chapters either?

The four Gospels are not to be studied as unity books in context to the Life of Christ? I guess the term Synoptic Gospels doesn't mean

" The same as" or lie the same in context to Mathew mark and Luke. I guess taking what is said in Luke and seeing clearer context in the Book of Acts is wrong Bible studying ?

I never said anything about the whole book or books . Just who Jesus was speaking to . I know for example that when I read in Genesis " Go build an Ark " I see its speaking to Noah . I don't grab my tools and start building an Ark .

 

[CS1]

I said there's no ' second work ' or ' second blessing ' or " quick over there hes in that room , go get your second blessing " , today . Today ,the moment we believe we recieve . We all recieve the same Spirit ONCE who baptises us ONCE into the body . There's not the have and the have nots. Those have the second blessing and those that don't.
Col 2
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

the word is not in context to salvation guy there is not second work of Salvation. Yes blessing amen. Let me be clear on that.

Of course we have all we need to be saved, so why did the scripture have say ' The Spirit of the lord came upon Him". in context to prophets, kings, judges, rulers, priest, and christians ? Why would Jesus say this empowerment is for all who are saved ?

 

[CS1]

I never said anything about the whole book or books . Just who Jesus was speaking to . I know for example that when I read in Genesis " Go build an Ark " I see its speaking to Noah . I don't grab my tools and start building an Ark .

Again that is ridiculous too suggested others are. The empowering of the Holy Spirit sir, is a Normative with the believer in both Old and New Testament. Jesus spit in a men's eye and he was healed, I am not suggesting one do that for all blind people, however,

the apostles did pray for the sick as Jesus did and I will say WE to are to pray for the sick unless you think only the Apostles were to do that? Throwing out the baby with the bth water.


The idea you would not build an ark and suggest or associate the ark with the work of the Church today being empowered by the Holy Spirit, is not very , how should I say this, it is not a display of Biblical application.

 

[throughfaith]

Again that is ridiculous too suggested others are. The empowering of the Holy Spirit sir, is a Normative with the believer in both Old and New Testament. Jesus spit in a men's eye and he was healed, I am not suggesting one do that for all blind people, however,

the apostles did pray for the sick as Jesus did and I will say WE to are to pray for the sick unless you think only the Apostles were to do that? Throwing out the baby with the bth water.


The idea you would not build an ark and suggest or associate the ark with the work of the Church today being empowered by the Holy Spirit, is not very , how should I say this, it is not a display of Biblical application.

Theres two ways of approaching what Jesus told the disciples would happen to them. One is to only note down who Jesus was speaking to and only go with that information, being careful not to extrapolate from that it applies beyond the instruction to those disciples. Or we can generalise and make assumptions that it applies beyond who Jesus was speaking to at all times ect . The latter I believe is on shakey ground.

 

[CS1]

There's plenty in the bible which it doesn't say . We have to see what it actually says .

while you refuse to see what it does say LOL Ok.

 

[CS1]

Theres two ways of approaching what Jesus told the disciples would happen to them. One is to only note down who Jesus was speaking to and only go with that information, being careful not to extrapolate from that it applies beyond the instruction to those disciples. Or we can generalise and make assumptions that it applies beyond who Jesus was speaking to at all times ect . The latter I believe is on shakey ground.

the explanation here is opinionated yet I agree with it. The authorial intent and context must be taken in the light of all that is said from Gen. to Rev.

When Jesus is speaking HE is the final Authority period. We build from what we see Jesus saying not from what Paul said only . IF there is a perceived contradiction between Jesus and Paul (as an example) the issue is with the person understanding not with Jesus and Paul.

IF Jesus did not breathe on the disciples in John 20:22 as it states you must explain what and why does is say so. Your lack of understanding cannot dismiss the verse, the text, passage, chapter, and book. The event in John 20:22 happened, that is not an assumption, we have the eye witnesses account . The instructions Given by the Risen Lord in Luke 24, Matthew 28, Mark 16, Acts 1 are not adding to the word of God. There is no shake ground when the full context is seen in both Luke and finished in the Book Acts with the other Gospels supporting this.

 

[Yahshua]

Theres two ways of approaching what Jesus told the disciples would happen to them. One is to only note down who Jesus was speaking to and only go with that information, being careful not to extrapolate from that it applies beyond the instruction to those disciples. Or we can generalise and make assumptions that it applies beyond who Jesus was speaking to at all times ect . The latter I believe is on shakey ground.

You can make this argument for every new testament letter as none of them were addressed to "all believers past present and future" but specifically written to certain communities addressing unique problems they had and so equally can't be applied to "all believers" (like galatians for example).

 

[throughfaith]

You can make this argument for every new testament letter as none of them were addressed to "all believers past present and future" but specifically written to certain communities addressing unique problems they had and so equally can't be applied to "all believers" (like galatians for example).

Could you give an example thats the same as the point im making ?

 

[CS1]

You can make this argument for every new testament letter as none of them were addressed to "all believers past present and future" but specifically written to certain communities addressing unique problems they had and so equally can't be applied to "all believers" (like galatians for example).

do you agree with that ? Where each letter addressing for example Timothy and Titus, one in Thessalonia another in Crete are not the same for each to apply if the situation is happening at later time?

 

[throughfaith]

You can make this argument for every new testament letter as none of them were addressed to "all believers past present and future" but specifically written to certain communities addressing unique problems they had and so equally can't be applied to "all believers" (like galatians for example).

Usually at the beginning of Paul's letter, for example, he will write that he is speaking to the Church or the churches . Now that does make a difference. Other letters like James and Hebrews , Peter also begin with who they are writing to .

 

[CS1]

Usually at the beginning of Paul's letter, for example, he will write that he is speaking to the Church or the churches . Now that does make a difference. Other letters like James and Hebrews , Peter also begin with who they are writing to .

So not all scripture is given for correction and reproof is what you just said. Ridiculous. God inspiration of HIS word through the Apostles has been limited by you because you're understand has greater authority ?

 

[Yahshua]

do you agree with that ? Where each letter addressing for example Timothy and Titus, one in Thessalonia another in Crete are not the same for each to apply if the situation is happening at later time?

No, I was taking Throughfaith's logic and applying it to other letters to show it's not as simple as saying what was said were for specific audiences and doesnt apply to the rest of the body, if applied properly.

 

[throughfaith]

So not all scripture is given for correction and reproof is what you just said. Ridiculous. God inspiration of HIS word through the Apostles has been limited by you because you're understand has greater authority ?

This verse is given for our learning also.
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
but who is Jesus speaking to and when? why not apply this verse at all times ? ( mat 10 .5 )

 

[CS1]

This verse is given for our learning also.
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
but who is Jesus speaking to and when? why not apply this verse at all times ? ( mat 10 .5 )

first off HE did not only say that HE said in Acts 1:8

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

To the Jews first. HE called Paul as an Apostle to the Gentiles. what is your Point? Was Paul not to train and impart ? Timothy , Titus , Philemon, those who came after them ? What are you saying? All verses are given for our learning. 2Tim 3:16

 

[throughfaith]

first off HE did not only say that HE said in Acts 1:8

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

To the Jews first. HE called Paul as an Apostle to the Gentiles. what is your Point? Was Paul not to train and impart ? Timothy , Titus , Philemon, those who came after them ? What are you saying? All verses are given for our learning. 2Tim 3:16

Paul was not there when Jesus said what he said to THEM Paul has specific things said to him . ALL things are given for our learning . But we're meant to rightly divide the word of God also .

 

[CS1]

Paul was not there when Jesus said what he said to THEM Paul has specific things said to him . ALL things are given for our learning . But we're meant to rightly divide the word of God also .

I'm sorry but the Holy Spirit was. Paul learned of Peter and others, HIS wisdom was given to him by the Holy Spirit. To rightly divide the word of God is done in the light of all the word of God by the Holy Spirit. IF you are suggesting one is not rightly dividing, please answer the questions as to why Jesus said what HE said in John 20:22 and Luke 24:49 and Acts chapter 1?

it is not a smoke screen, nor is it deceptive or unable to ascertain.

 

[throughfaith]

I'm sorry but the Holy Spirit was. Paul learned of Peter and others, HIS wisdom was given to him by the Holy Spirit. To rightly divide the word of God is done in the light of all the word of God by the Holy Spirit. IF you are suggesting one is not rightly dividing, please answer the questions as to why Jesus said what HE said in John 20:22 and Luke 24:49 and Acts chapter 1?

it is not a smoke screen, nor is it deceptive or unable to ascertain.

Paul did not receive his revelation from Peter or any man , but by Jesus Christ . . Gal 1
11¶But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.