Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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Grace is what has the transforming power.
I don't know why there is this belief - this fear - that things must be added to it by us, so it doesn't "fail".
Grace is what has the TRANSFORMING power.
But I think it's good to get to the bottom of things. The OP doesn't trust grace, "because not everyone gets saved".
But how does this make God's methods of dealing with things incompetent?
Rom 11:5 So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace.
Is this then God's grace being inadequate?
We had grace coupled with will (because God was never ungraceful) back in the Old testament. This was tried and proven by God... so we can understand it isn't effective. Normally we'd think that it should work. But the new heart wasn't produced. The flesh was not conquered.
It's certainly something to think about.
You put it well when you say, it's in the Bible but it's not a salvation formula. It's a result of salvation.
I don't know why there is this belief - this fear - that things must be added to it by us, so it doesn't "fail".
Grace is what has the TRANSFORMING power.
But I think it's good to get to the bottom of things. The OP doesn't trust grace, "because not everyone gets saved".
But how does this make God's methods of dealing with things incompetent?
Rom 11:5 So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace.
Is this then God's grace being inadequate?
We had grace coupled with will (because God was never ungraceful) back in the Old testament. This was tried and proven by God... so we can understand it isn't effective. Normally we'd think that it should work. But the new heart wasn't produced. The flesh was not conquered.
It's certainly something to think about.
You put it well when you say, it's in the Bible but it's not a salvation formula. It's a result of salvation.
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I agree. we see this again and again that people from various groups and sects have a 'need' to add to God's grace and worse, must teach it to all who will give their ear and if you don't well, you are without the gates. no heaven for you
people are repeating Jesus words 'why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?' and apply that to salvation so we end up with, as I stated, a 'formula'. some others cannot let go of the law and add to salvation that way...even though the NT states you are cursed if you do that
they will then confuse their thoughts with the statements of others and try to state we have easy believeism. they put THEIR persuasions as a test and if you fail THEIR test, boom...you are not saved
the fear of man is a snare indeed as scripture states
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I've been in that place before, not believing God's grace is enough and I can mess it up and all that.
It's a very hard and tormentous place to be at. It's not peace of Christ. "My peace I give you, not like the world gives. Don't let your heart be troubled and don't be afraid"
But if I think like this, I will never have peace and I would always stay troubled and afraid. God doesn't want us to be in continual torment and always feel endangered, stressed, disheartened.
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love."
It's a very hard and tormentous place to be at. It's not peace of Christ. "My peace I give you, not like the world gives. Don't let your heart be troubled and don't be afraid"
But if I think like this, I will never have peace and I would always stay troubled and afraid. God doesn't want us to be in continual torment and always feel endangered, stressed, disheartened.
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love."
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I just posted the following in the
Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.
that is an example of using an out of context verse to apply MacArthur's idea that salvation is actually not free. what he has done, is put the yoke back on everyone's neck...the very one Jesus came to take off our necks
anyway, I think that post might be applicable to what you say above
here it is:
the op is relating her belief in MacArthur's understanding of salvation. that's a problem
if a person is going to use Jesus statement 'why do you call me lord but do not do what I say' as a reference for salvation, they are going to ADD to God's grace and confuse what Jesus said to those who were supposed to represent God.
Jesus never said call me Lord and do as I say for salvation. if keeping commandments were the way to salvation, if works were the way to salvation, Jesus would not have had to die in our place.
yes, Jesus IS Lord and salvation is of God. period. there is nothing we can do for our salvation except for accepting it
the gospel...the word gospel means simply GOOD NEWS , but going back to the old testament and demanding works is not good news. that is the exact same yoke and burden Jesus came to do away with
as for works, we are created to do GOD'S works . people throw the word works around and think it's stop smoking, drinking and swearing
actually it is this:
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
salvation is God's good works to us and for us and He created us to do works that HE had prepared for us to do. these are not the 10 commandments and they are not flogging your flesh as some do
those good works that God prepared for us to do are everyday living for Christ. God desires that we are becoming like His Son...conformed to His image as scripture tells us. remember, God first created mankind in His image (Genesis 1) and that image was marred through sin. So, God loving His creation, John 3:16, sent His Son to become the Way to get back to God's intent. only, this time, sin can no longer hold sway over us...NT truth, so it's a 'done deal'
ALL is God's work and we cannot improve on it!
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2: 8-10
Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.
that is an example of using an out of context verse to apply MacArthur's idea that salvation is actually not free. what he has done, is put the yoke back on everyone's neck...the very one Jesus came to take off our necks
anyway, I think that post might be applicable to what you say above
here it is:the op is relating her belief in MacArthur's understanding of salvation. that's a problem
if a person is going to use Jesus statement 'why do you call me lord but do not do what I say' as a reference for salvation, they are going to ADD to God's grace and confuse what Jesus said to those who were supposed to represent God.
Jesus never said call me Lord and do as I say for salvation. if keeping commandments were the way to salvation, if works were the way to salvation, Jesus would not have had to die in our place.
yes, Jesus IS Lord and salvation is of God. period. there is nothing we can do for our salvation except for accepting it
the gospel...the word gospel means simply GOOD NEWS , but going back to the old testament and demanding works is not good news. that is the exact same yoke and burden Jesus came to do away with
as for works, we are created to do GOD'S works . people throw the word works around and think it's stop smoking, drinking and swearing
actually it is this:
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
salvation is God's good works to us and for us and He created us to do works that HE had prepared for us to do. these are not the 10 commandments and they are not flogging your flesh as some do
those good works that God prepared for us to do are everyday living for Christ. God desires that we are becoming like His Son...conformed to His image as scripture tells us. remember, God first created mankind in His image (Genesis 1) and that image was marred through sin. So, God loving His creation, John 3:16, sent His Son to become the Way to get back to God's intent. only, this time, sin can no longer hold sway over us...NT truth, so it's a 'done deal'
ALL is God's work and we cannot improve on it!
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2: 8-10
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I just posted the following in the
Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.
that is an example of using an out of context verse to apply MacArthur's idea that salvation is actually not free. what he has done, is put the yoke back on everyone's neck...the very one Jesus came to take off our necks
anyway, I think that post might be applicable to what you say above here it is:
the op is relating her belief in MacArthur's understanding of salvation. that's a problem
if a person is going to use Jesus statement 'why do you call me lord but do not do what I say' as a reference for salvation, they are going to ADD to God's grace and confuse what Jesus said to those who were supposed to represent God.
Jesus never said call me Lord and do as I say for salvation. if keeping commandments were the way to salvation, if works were the way to salvation, Jesus would not have had to die in our place.
yes, Jesus IS Lord and salvation is of God. period. there is nothing we can do for our salvation except for accepting it
the gospel...the word gospel means simply GOOD NEWS , but going back to the old testament and demanding works is not good news. that is the exact same yoke and burden Jesus came to do away with
as for works, we are created to do GOD'S works . people throw the word works around and think it's stop smoking, drinking and swearing
actually it is this:
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
salvation is God's good works to us and for us and He created us to do works that HE had prepared for us to do. these are not the 10 commandments and they are not flogging your flesh as some do
those good works that God prepared for us to do are everyday living for Christ. God desires that we are becoming like His Son...conformed to His image as scripture tells us. remember, God first created mankind in His image (Genesis 1) and that image was marred through sin. So, God loving His creation, John 3:16, sent His Son to become the Way to get back to God's intent. only, this time, sin can no longer hold sway over us...NT truth, so it's a 'done deal'
ALL is God's work and we cannot improve on it!
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2: 8-10
Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.
that is an example of using an out of context verse to apply MacArthur's idea that salvation is actually not free. what he has done, is put the yoke back on everyone's neck...the very one Jesus came to take off our necks
anyway, I think that post might be applicable to what you say above
here it is:the op is relating her belief in MacArthur's understanding of salvation. that's a problem
if a person is going to use Jesus statement 'why do you call me lord but do not do what I say' as a reference for salvation, they are going to ADD to God's grace and confuse what Jesus said to those who were supposed to represent God.
Jesus never said call me Lord and do as I say for salvation. if keeping commandments were the way to salvation, if works were the way to salvation, Jesus would not have had to die in our place.
yes, Jesus IS Lord and salvation is of God. period. there is nothing we can do for our salvation except for accepting it
the gospel...the word gospel means simply GOOD NEWS , but going back to the old testament and demanding works is not good news. that is the exact same yoke and burden Jesus came to do away with
as for works, we are created to do GOD'S works . people throw the word works around and think it's stop smoking, drinking and swearing
actually it is this:
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
salvation is God's good works to us and for us and He created us to do works that HE had prepared for us to do. these are not the 10 commandments and they are not flogging your flesh as some do
those good works that God prepared for us to do are everyday living for Christ. God desires that we are becoming like His Son...conformed to His image as scripture tells us. remember, God first created mankind in His image (Genesis 1) and that image was marred through sin. So, God loving His creation, John 3:16, sent His Son to become the Way to get back to God's intent. only, this time, sin can no longer hold sway over us...NT truth, so it's a 'done deal'
ALL is God's work and we cannot improve on it!
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2: 8-10
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,
Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
They are not even conscient they did something... it's a result of changed nature in Christ. Their "new normal". Which is why they didn't notice it. What we notice, is what we contrived... this is the "filthy rags" because then man thinks he's something. God wants us to be like little children instead, they are not self conscient, no pride, no plotting what they will do, 100% innocence and authenticity.
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we believe what the Bible tells us is so -
we are saved by Grace and not by Works, but we are appointed unto 'good-works',
after we are saved -
and we are 'rewarded accordingly'...
MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of Heaven.
it's really heart-breaking watching those who Love their Saviour not understanding one another,
or even really trying to, and not being understanding of how easy it is to be beguiled by the
false teachers and doctrines of this world -
it would seem that there is a very, very, fine line that is separating brethren, but the bottom line is;
JAMES 1:19.
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20.
For the wrath of man works not the Righteousness of God.
may all we who Love and serve our Saviour be not only 'hearers, but doers also'...
may all we who Love and serve our Saviour come into the 'unity of the Faith'...
we are saved by Grace and not by Works, but we are appointed unto 'good-works',
after we are saved -
and we are 'rewarded accordingly'...
MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of Heaven.
it's really heart-breaking watching those who Love their Saviour not understanding one another,
or even really trying to, and not being understanding of how easy it is to be beguiled by the
false teachers and doctrines of this world -
it would seem that there is a very, very, fine line that is separating brethren, but the bottom line is;
JAMES 1:19.
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20.
For the wrath of man works not the Righteousness of God.
may all we who Love and serve our Saviour be not only 'hearers, but doers also'...
may all we who Love and serve our Saviour come into the 'unity of the Faith'...
I don't know what do you mean by formula in your statement above
One thing I know jesus say about salvation in matt 7:21
Not enter the !ongdom of God mean not save
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
One thing I know jesus say about salvation in matt 7:21
Not enter the !ongdom of God mean not save
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.[Mark 16:16]
is baptized
βαπτισθεὶς (baptistheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 907: Lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
is baptized
βαπτισθεὶς (baptistheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 907: Lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Strong's Greek 907: Lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Mark 16:16
Where is the verse that says we are dipped, submerged, ceremonially dipped in the holy spirit?
Mark 16:16
Where is the verse that says we are dipped, submerged, ceremonially dipped in the holy spirit?
I saw the notification that you had responded to my post and was surprised to see that too.
Maybe your quote wanted some attention. So it launched itself onto my posting just after I hit post reply. Like running for the bus when you're a half a minute late at its stop.
I'm glad it's all good. I have no other explanation than to be funny and wonder what the heck?
Maybe your quote wanted some attention. So it launched itself onto my posting just after I hit post reply. Like running for the bus when you're a half a minute late at its stop.
I'm glad it's all good. I have no other explanation than to be funny and wonder what the heck?
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I saw the notification that you had responded to my post and was surprised to see that too.
Maybe your quote wanted some attention. So it launched itself onto my posting just after I hit post reply. Like running for the bus when you're a half a minute late at its stop.
I'm glad it's all good. I have no other explanation than to be funny and wonder what the heck?
Maybe your quote wanted some attention. So it launched itself onto my posting just after I hit post reply. Like running for the bus when you're a half a minute late at its stop.
I'm glad it's all good. I have no other explanation than to be funny and wonder what the heck?
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Maybe it was destined to happen so there could be some comical relief in this thread so everyone could just CHILL OUT for a moment
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