Works error

[luigi]

While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works. You are not doing any works whatsoever by refraining to do evil works.
However, by refraining to continue sinning, which is doing evil works, you are then commencing to overcome your sins, by which reason the Lord will then be more readily available to perform good works through you.

 

[Magenta]

I am the vine; you are the branches. The one abiding in Me and I in him,
he bears much fruit. For apart from Me you are able to do nothing. John 15:5

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @luigi, there is nothing that "we" can do to save ourselves .. Ephesians 2:8-10 (by grace we have been saved, not by anything that 'we' do .. Ephesians 2:4-5).

True believers "refrain from continuing to sin" and choose to obey God's will/choose to do the "good works" that we were created to do as wholly new creatures in Christ Jesus because we are ~already~ saved (not to become or to remain saved).

God bless you!

~Deut

Ephesians 2​

4 God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

​

8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

​

 

[seed_time_harvest]

While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works. You are not doing any works whatsoever by refraining to do evil works.
However, by refraining to continue sinning, which is doing evil works, you are then commencing to overcome your sins, by which reason the Lord will then be more readily available to perform good works through you.

Give GOD credit for equipping you first. When HE creates the Spirit new then the person won't have a desire to sin.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Post#2 says It well.

 

[Runningman]

If we sin we have an advocate before the Father and his name is Jesus Christ. We don't make a habit of sin because we are in Christ, but we don't ever claim to have never sinned either.

1 John chapters 1-5 is a good quick read on this topic.

 

[crossnote]

While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works. You are not doing any works whatsoever by refraining to do evil works.
However, by refraining to continue sinning, which is doing evil works, you are then commencing to overcome your sins, by which reason the Lord will then be more readily available to perform good works through you.

Sin isn't just the execution of evil works but also the failure to do good works.

 

[luigi]

Hello @luigi, there is nothing that "we" can do to save ourselves .. Ephesians 2:8-10 (by grace we have been saved, not by anything that 'we' do .. Ephesians 2:4-5).

True believers "refrain from continuing to sin" and choose to obey God's will/choose to do the "good works" that we were created to do as wholly new creatures in Christ Jesus because we are ~already~ saved (not to become or to remain saved).

God bless you!

~Deut

Ephesians 2​

4 God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

​

8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

​

Hello Deutronomy, I agree that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, and that salvation is through faith in Christ. That, however, is not the topic. The topic is the belief many have that if they were to cease their sinning, it would mean their doing a good work to attain salvation, when in fact ceasing from sinning is not any work at all.

 

[luigi]

Give GOD credit for equipping you first. When HE creates the Spirit new then the person won't have a desire to sin.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Post#2 says It well.

Good morning seed-time-harvest,
If you notice the scripture you posted in Romans 12:1-2, the Spirit is requesting rejecting our carnal inclinations (sins), so that we may then be acceptable to God. And as scripture does state this is a reasonable service we should perform; rejecting and overcoming our sins then does appear to be a type of work.

 

[luigi]

If we sin we have an advocate before the Father and his name is Jesus Christ. We don't make a habit of sin because we are in Christ, but we don't ever claim to have never sinned either.

1 John chapters 1-5 is a good quick read on this topic.

I agree that we all currently sin, but we are also to continue attempting to overcome our carnal inclinations (sins). Those of us who earnestly continue attempting to overcome their carnal inclinations (sins), the Lord I believe will deliver them.
Then there are those who use the excuse that they are incapable of overcoming their sins, because they truly love their sins, and so will never make an earnest attempt at leaving their sins. These individuals are those whom the Lord will reject, declaring them workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[luigi]

Sin isn't just the execution of evil works but also the failure to do good works.

An original definition of sin was where when someone aimed at a target and missed, it was a sin. Basically, to sin is to miss the correct target in life. As such, I can agree with your claim that failing to do good works is to miss the mark.

 

[Runningman]

I agree that we all currently sin, but we are also to continue attempting to overcome our carnal inclinations (sins). Those of us who earnestly continue attempting to overcome their carnal inclinations (sins), the Lord I believe will deliver them.
Then there are those who use the excuse that they are incapable of overcoming their sins, because they truly love their sins, and so will never make an earnest attempt at leaving their sins. These individuals are those whom the Lord will reject, declaring them workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Agreed in so far that the Bible makes every effort to tell people to not sin. So, yes, do not walk in the flesh but walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25)

I would elaborate on that warning in Matthew 7:22 using the qualifier "never." So it's dependent on whether or not Jesus ever knew someone. I think it separates those who have book smarts about Jesus from those who sincerely believe in him in their heart. Those who pay lip service only from those who draw near with their heart. Those who practice works-salvation from those justified by faith.

 

[mailmandan]

I would elaborate on that warning in Matthew 7:22 using the qualifier "never." So it's dependent on whether or not Jesus ever knew someone. I think it separates those who have book smarts about Jesus from those who sincerely believe in him in their heart. Those who pay lip service only from those who draw near with their heart. Those who practice works-salvation from those justified by faith.

Amen! Jesus clearly stated, "I NEVER knew you." These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts. Works-salvationists merely believe in their head and pay lip service to Jesus, but do not believe in their heart and are not saved. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

 

[luigi]

Agreed in so far that the Bible makes every effort to tell people to not sin. So, yes, do not walk in the flesh but walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25)

I would elaborate on that warning in Matthew 7:22 using the qualifier "never." So it's dependent on whether or not Jesus ever knew someone. I think it separates those who have book smarts about Jesus from those who sincerely believe in him in their heart. Those who pay lip service only from those who draw near with their heart. Those who practice works-salvation from those justified by faith.

When the Lord says He "never" knew those workers of iniquity; He is telling those individuals that He, the only begotten son of God who is Love (1 John 4: 8 & 16), that they never knew Love. In all their supposed good works they never acted in love for their neighbor. In contrast to those who did not know love, but thought they believed in Jesus, there will be those who will have thought they did not believe in Christ, but whose action in love for their neighbors, the Lord will claim as His sheep, having faith in Him who is love (Matthew 25:34-40).

 

[shittim]

And beyond that, we are required to be in relationship, not merely know 'about" Jesus, nor settle for going to a place once a week and hearing someone talk "about" Jesus, we are to be in personal, vital, relationship with Him with every thought, word and deed, just as we will in and for eternity, the remaining time we have here He indwells the believer and guides, speaks and shows us all truth via Holy Spirit.
Remember how He told us, "My sheep know my voice" ? He didn't say "My sheep read my book" or "My sheep listen to someone talk about me".
blessings

 

[luigi]

And beyond that, we are required to be in relationship, not merely know 'about" Jesus, nor settle for going to a place once a week and hearing someone talk "about" Jesus, we are to be in personal, vital, relationship with Him with every thought, word and deed, just as we will in and for eternity, the remaining time we have here He indwells the believer and guides, speaks and shows us all truth via Holy Spirit.
Remember how He told us, "My sheep know my voice" ? He didn't say "My sheep read my book" or "My sheep listen to someone talk about me".
blessings

Agreed, we are to be in personal relationship with the Lord who is love. Being so will eventually show up in our actions. Where as those who are not in a personal relationship with the Spirit of love, are they whose actions are iniquity.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Good morning seed-time-harvest,
If you notice the scripture you posted in Romans 12:1-2, the Spirit is requesting rejecting our carnal inclinations (sins), so that we may then be acceptable to God. And as scripture does state this is a reasonable service we should perform; rejecting and overcoming our sins then does appear to be a type of work.

Yes,this Is work for those that have received salvation called continuous progressive sanctification.But the part where you say

the Spirit is requesting rejecting our carnal inclinations (sins), so that we may then be acceptable to God.

We are acceptable to GOD after receiving salvation but we then have a desire to not sin and we will want to renew our minds which will be seen by men and the only way for men to know If the person Is true Is to see(physical)action called good work.

GOD looks at the heart but men look at outward appearance.

GOD In CHRIST Is the VINE and we are the branches receiving nourishment from the VINE displaying spiritual fruit.

 

[crossnote]

An original definition of sin was where when someone aimed at a target and missed, it was a sin. Basically, to sin is to miss the correct target in life. As such, I can agree with your claim that failing to do good works is to miss the mark.

Here is the perfect target Jesus gave us...

Mark 12:29-31 KJV
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: [30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. [31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 

[throughfaith]

While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works. You are not doing any works whatsoever by refraining to do evil works.
However, by refraining to continue sinning, which is doing evil works, you are then commencing to overcome your sins, by which reason the Lord will then be more readily available to perform good works through you.

Depends on what your reasons instead are for refraining ? If they are to earn or keep salvation then the reasons are wrong. Refraining from sins even if your not saved is good . Repenting of sins is good even if your not saved. Repenting of sin is good if you are saved ( of course ) . Repenting of sin as the motivation to be saved or stay saved is not good .

 

[Benadam]

won't have a desire to sin.

since a sin is born of desire, do you mean we will reject the desire?

 

[Benadam]

Depends on what your reasons instead are for refraining ? If they are to earn or keep salvation then the reasons are wrong. Refraining from sins even if your not saved is good . Repenting of sins is good even if your not saved. Repenting of sin is good if you are saved ( of course ) . Repenting of sin as the motivation to be saved or stay saved is not good .

Or for the Christian...are you refraining to avoid hell? good but better ..are you refraining because sin disappoints your Father in heaven? That's very good Therein lies the battle of desire. Sinful habits and their desires need replaced with good habits and desires.