When are we saved ?
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We have to understand what "world" is referenced in 2 Cor 5:19. 1 Cor 2:18 the "us" are those that God gave to Christ to die for the payment of their sins. You interpret as the whole world of mankind. I interpret it as only the world of the elect that Christ died for. The cross is where reconciliation took place. Paul is saying that as an Apostle he has the word of reconciliation to inform regenerated babes in Christ what Christ accomplished for them on the cross. Christ said that those that he died for on the cross "he would lose none of them, but raise them up at the last day" so that would eliminate being the whole world of mankind.
Rom 5:10, For if, when we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:10, For if, when we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
I dont believe God knows us as sons until we are regenerated. Specifically as sons . Until then we are described in eph 1.13-14
Gal 4 .
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, OR RATHER ARE KNOWN OF GOD , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4 .
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, OR RATHER ARE KNOWN OF GOD , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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I love you, but this post is waaayyyyyyy out in left field.
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It is true that the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, cannot save himself eternally, until he has been regenerated. Even the regenerated man did not save (deliver) himself eternally by accepting his atonement, but he can deliver (save) himself, here in time, by coming unto the knowledge of his atonement.
John
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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I am assuming that you believe all of the scriptures must harmonize, as I do, and I would be interested in knowing how you interpret 2 Tim:2:13. I also am assuming that you understand that I believe regeneration, being born spiritually, happens before a person can believe in spiritual things.
John 3:18, the word "condemned" does not mean condemned to hell. Strong's says that it means to punish, or call in question.
John 3:18, the word "condemned" does not mean condemned to hell. Strong's says that it means to punish, or call in question.
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Romans 15:4 NIV For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
How often has it been said "we learn from our past mistakes?" Paul tells us to learn from people in the OT. For example; Abraham (Genesis 13:8,9) lets Lot chose where he wanted to live, Jonathan (1 Samuel 19:4) speaks words of encouragement to his father Saul telling him that he has done good and benefited Saul, David (1Samuel 24:10) told Saul how he had spared his life when Saul was in the cave, and Moses (Hebrews 11:24) refused to be known as the son of Pharaohs daughter. These men let go of their rightful possessions or position. God promised to do things in our life and as we read, learn, and inwardly digest the OT we can learn from the patriarchs of old to be patient in order to receive the promises of God.
How often has it been said "we learn from our past mistakes?" Paul tells us to learn from people in the OT. For example; Abraham (Genesis 13:8,9) lets Lot chose where he wanted to live, Jonathan (1 Samuel 19:4) speaks words of encouragement to his father Saul telling him that he has done good and benefited Saul, David (1Samuel 24:10) told Saul how he had spared his life when Saul was in the cave, and Moses (Hebrews 11:24) refused to be known as the son of Pharaohs daughter. These men let go of their rightful possessions or position. God promised to do things in our life and as we read, learn, and inwardly digest the OT we can learn from the patriarchs of old to be patient in order to receive the promises of God.