When are we saved ?

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oyster67 said:
Pride, lust, greed. We like to be in the drivers seat (or at least pretend we are.) Do you not understand what sin is?
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Yes. I very much agree with your statement here.

When I was coming to Christ, or rather being drawn to Christ, I could not stop with thoughts of lust, pride and covetousness. No matter how hard I tried. I didn't want them. But I was literally powerless to stop.

That is why I thought I was a vessel built for destruction. Because I didn't have the power to stop this sin in my mind, where sin starts.
 
Grandpa said:
It depends on how you look at the P in TULIP.

If you are in a legalistic church and they are teaching to follow the law and they say the P is following the Law then it absolutely IS legalistic.

If you look at the P in TULIP as OSAS, Salvation is the Power of God and not of you, then it makes perfect sense and is 100% scriptural.


If you don't believe in Eternal Security then your belief in "free will" has overpowered the Power of God and His Salvation. That's not scriptural. That's taking your philosophy and forcing it over the top of scripture.
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Agreed amen

however your last sentance?
 
throughfaith said:
I believe in Eternal security, but not based on ' election " , but on the sealing of the Spirit until the day of redemption..Being predestined after we believe to Glorification/ Adoption. Free will is a bad argument against eternal security because at some point either after we believe or in heaven we can't undo our position. So I believe God secures the believer before heaven , for heaven.
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Your removing one of the greatest strengths of eternal security all because you hate a dont I so belief, it’s sad
 
Grandpa said:
That is your wish. You have taken what you wish and placed it over the top of what scripture ACTUALLY says.

If ALL men had the opportunity to choose to follow Jesus then, at the VERY LEAST, ALL men would believe in the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
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That’s not true bro, I do not believe all men would believe, god wants a relationship not a forced Union, it’s why he put the tree in the garden, if one has no free will to rebel, they have no relationship, it is forced
 
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throughfaith said:
Yes believing in IT but IT did not save anyone, until IT is recieved .
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You already denied the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ saves in your first post.. Don't try and weasel your way out of it now.. You are a false believer and NO one should take heed of anything you proclaim about salvation.. You are still denying the truth..
 
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Grandpa said:
It IS concerning Israel.

It is also concerning Individuals.
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No, it is not bro, romans 9 is about gods choosing of Israel not individuals, it’s answering the question, did God make a mistake chosing Israel, and he goes through three chapters proving his point. That even Israel’s rebellion and cutting off was forseen nothing they did surprised god, and I. The end, what he promised will come to fruition, because the gifts and calling of God are Irrevocable
 
eternally-gratefull said:
That’s not true bro, I do not believe all men would believe, god wants a relationship not a forced Union, it’s why he put the tree in the garden, if one has no free will to rebel, they have no relationship, it is forced
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You're forced one way or the other.

Either to continue your conversation with the god of this world. Or to come into a New Conversation with God Himself.

Thankfully, The Lord doesn't leave us in our pitiful state but actually lifts the vail from our eyes. Forcing us to see the Truth for what it is.
 
Adstar said:
You already denied the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ saves in your first post.. Don't try and weasel your way out of it now.. You are a false believer and NO one should take heed of anything you proclaim about salvation.. You are still denying the truth..
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He is at war with calvin, so he can’t hear anything anyone says or will not even give one ounce of anything which may support even a hint of something a calvinist believes,
 
Grandpa said:
You're forced one way or the other.

Either to continue your conversation with the god of this world. Or to come into a New Conversation with God Himself.

Thankfully, The Lord doesn't leave us in our pitiful state but actually lifts the vail from our eyes. Forcing us to see the Truth for what it is.
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Yes we are forced, to make a decision.

we are not forced to say yes, or to say no. That’s they God designed it’s so he gets the credit and all the haters are put to shame for the lies the proclaimed about him
 
oyster67 said:
I love you, but this is completely nonsensical.
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You must not be thinking what you say all the way through.

How can people have the opportunity to follow the Lord Jesus if they first don't believe in Him?

You must first believe in the Lord in order to follow Him.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
He is at war with calvin, so he can’t hear anything anyone says or will not even give one ounce of anything which may support even a hint of something a calvinist believes,
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Well i am not a Calvinist..

This is much more important then calvinism, This is about a core doctrine of salvational importence.. The Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and how it secures our salvation.. Denying the Atonement of Jesus saves is a door to the eternal lake of fire..
 
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Grandpa said:
Its a pretty easy decision.

Be blessed of God.

Or go back to being cursed.
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Yep, amen brother! Sadly as Romans 1 says, many although they know what they causes them to be deserving of death, love their sin so much they could care less, and take others with them, and god allowed them to do this
 
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Adstar said:
Well i am not a Calvinist..

This is much more important then calvinism, This is about a core doctrine of salvational importence.. The Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and how it secures our salvation.. Denying the Atonement of Jesus saves is a door to the eternal lake of fire..
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I know brother

but the person you are discussing is At war, and will not give an inch, that’s why he denies the atonement
 
eternally-gratefull said:
No, it is not bro, romans 9 is about gods choosing of Israel not individuals, it’s answering the question, did God make a mistake chosing Israel, and he goes through three chapters proving his point. That even Israel’s rebellion and cutting off was forseen nothing they did surprised god, and I. The end, what he promised will come to fruition, because the gifts and calling of God are Irrevocable
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And then He speaks of Individuals.

He speaks of Jacob and Esau.

He speaks of Pharoah.

Then He says, Who are YOU o man, to reply against God and His Ways?

Will the thing formed (YOU) say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Why have you made me this way?)
 
Grandpa said:
And then He speaks of Individuals.

He speaks of Jacob and Esau.

He speaks of Pharoah.

Then He says, Who are YOU o man, to reply against God and His Ways?

Will the thing formed (YOU) say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Why have you made me this way?)
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Jacob and esau we’re nations in context,

he is answering the question, was Israel chosen by mans way by birthright, no, jacob was second born, this Isreal was not chosen according to mans way, and then he loved jacob but hated esau, not kids, but nations (Micah showing he had a special love for Israel the nation, and as for pharaoh, he put him in charge not to force him against his will, but because he knew pharaoh would do exactly what pharaoh did. As a soverign God he can use mans free will to show his power, he strengthened pharaoh and his will (hardened his heart) many times, it’s why he started slowly and built up, so he could build up pharaoh resistance. Because he knew what to do
 
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