When are we saved ?

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throughfaith said:
Yet no verse says we are born again before we believe . Yes I know John 3 is stretched to fit ,but seriously this is Absent in the text . It comes as a huge shock to anyone who has read the bible that a certain group teaches ' regeneration precedes faith ' . R c Sprouls testimony is a great example . Calvinism should be rejected on this teaching alone . Let alone Lordship salvation.
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Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source in gleaning the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught. Consulting other men's interpretations of the scriptures is what throws many of God's children into believing a false doctrine.

We cannot ignore any of the scriptures, because if the scriptures do not harmonise, then we are believing in a false doctrine.
 
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ForestGreenCook said:
Eph 2:5.
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It doesn't say anything about being born again
ForestGreenCook said:
Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source in gleaning the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught. Consulting other men's interpretations of the scriptures is what throws many of God's children into believing a false doctrine.

We cannot ignore any of the scriptures, because if the scriptures do not harmonise, then we are believing in a false doctrine.
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No one came up with regeneration precedes faith until Augustine .
 
Grandpa said:
I don't think the bible verses you quote support what you are saying.

I also think that you don't understand Salvation.


Salvation is pretty simple when you break it down. Salvation doesn't come from you. Salvation comes from God. Good works don't come from you. Good works come from God. You don't choose God. God chooses you.


I don't think Calvin was right in everything that he said but he had a pretty good handle on Salvation.
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I think that Calvin, if what I hear about him is true, goes a bit too far in believing that all of man's actions are predestined by God. God does give mankind a choice in how he wants to live his life as he sojourns here in this world, and that is why mankind has made such a mess of his life, but mankind does not have a choice in his eternal deliverance, that is only by God's .sovereign grace, without the choice of man.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
The passage he used says belief in the english, but In the greek. The word is used in the sense that one hs confidence in something, one trusts,one has faith it is not mere belief

but its ok. You all just go on and prove you believe in easy believism. That one can say a sinners pray void any. True repentance and faith and be saved
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Why do you add ' mere belief ' . 1 cor 2 21 doesn't? not Acts 16.30 either. Its aways translated ' believe' .
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Scripture please.
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Luke
14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him,
14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
14:34 Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; [but] men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
throughfaith said:
We have to have verses that speak on Salvation during the church age . We must get this right ,to tell others how to be saved. Otherwise we could hinder someone from believing the truth . God is pleased to save anyone through believing.
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I thought God saves souls to heaven, I did not know that you do too. We can be instrumental in saving (delivering) someone from a lack of knowledge of the truth, but that does not deliver him eternally.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I think it is time for us to put him on ignore, he has one mission here, and it’s time to stop feeding him.
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He was placed on ignore after my last reply to him. Had to hit my knees and ask God’s forgiveness for what was said and what was in my heart. Takes a lot to get me fired up, and this has been about a month coming, lol. It’s one thing to argue and debate; talking down to others and insulting them is another.
 
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throughfaith said:
I remember it like eph 2.

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But to be justified I simply believed the Gospel. To be justified by God ,its through faith , not promises or proving yourself ?
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We are justified eternally by Jesus's faith, Gal 2:16.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
I thought God saves souls to heaven, I did not know that you do too. We can be instrumental in saving (delivering) someone from a lack of knowledge of the truth, but that does not deliver him eternally.
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13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14¶how then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 
throughfaith said:
I highlighted ' saved ' to make the point. We are not ' saved ' by his death . When Jesus died you were not ' saved ' were you?
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I'm sorry, but this is kind of silly, and I STILL fail to see the point.

The ONLY reason He was resurrected was because He was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

It's a package deal. BOTH His death and resurrection are necessary for Salvation.

Please tell me what exactly you are trying to accomplish by separating the 2.
 
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throughfaith said:
Thats why we need to rightly divide . Jesus said he only came for Israel . Where would we be if we did not recognise the transitions , the Cross , the resurrection and the giving of the Holy Spirit. The birth of the Church , The apostle to Gentiles, the Tribulation ect . And yet some still quote Jesus without realising the above ?
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The nation of Israel is not representative of God's elect. Jacob, whose name was changed, to be called "Israel", by God Gen 32:28, is representative of God's elect, from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9.
 
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SoulWeaver said:
Indeed. Simple (not easy though).
Many people find it so hard, they never fully let go of (surrender) their own vain efforts to earn salvation.
How hard can it be to accept mercy? Like a drowning person, almost done for, not accepting the hand given, you'd think they'd want help, but they're trying to swim out on their own. The condition of mankind is really tragic.
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A spiritually dead man, cannot reach out a hand to be spiritually saved, 1 Cor 2:14.
 
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PennEd said:
I'm sorry, but this is kind of silly, and I STILL fail to see the point.

The ONLY reason He was resurrected was because He was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

It's a package deal. BOTH His death and resurrection are necessary for Salvation.

Please tell me what exactly you are trying to accomplish by separating the 2.
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i did not say the death is not necessary did I. That would be foolish . I said we are not saved by his death ..Were you saved at Jesus death 2000 years ago ? no you were not . We are saved by his life . ( resurrection) . Regeneration is only possible because of the resurrection. Glorification is only possible because Jesus rose .
 
PennEd said:
I'm sorry, but this is kind of silly, and I STILL fail to see the point.

The ONLY reason He was resurrected was because He was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

It's a package deal. BOTH His death and resurrection are necessary for Salvation.

Please tell me what exactly you are trying to accomplish by separating the 2.
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Because of certain theological systems we have teachings which have people being saved at his death . Hence the limited v unlimited/ conditional v unconditional election / irresistible v previenient grace debates. Which are all unbiblical.
 
throughfaith said:
Because of certain theological systems we have teachings which have people being saved at his death . Hence the limited v unlimited/ conditional v unconditional election / irresistible v previenient grace debates. Which are all unbiblical.
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I don't know any Christian who omits, and severs the Gospel. Both His death and resurrection are essential to the Gospel.

We are saved, regenerated, and born again when we hear and believe the Gospel. THE WHOLE GOSPEL. After that, we can talk all day long about sanctification, or how a Christian should walk.

The rest is silliness.
 
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49 said:
He was placed on ignore after my last reply to him. Had to hit my knees and ask God’s forgiveness for what was said and what was in my heart. Takes a lot to get me fired up, and this has been about a month coming, lol. It’s one thing to argue and debate; talking down to others and insulting them is another.
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Yeah I am done too
 
PennEd said:
I don't know any Christian who omits, and severs the Gospel. Both His death and resurrection are essential to the Gospel.

We are saved, regenerated, and born again when we hear and believe the Gospel. THE WHOLE GOSPEL. After that, we can talk all day long about sanctification, or how a Christian should walk.

The rest is silliness.
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He is out to defeat Calvinism at all costs. Like a few others these past few months
He can’t see anything else he sees all through a Calvin lens. So he can’t see anything else
 
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PennEd said:
I don't know any Christian who omits, and severs the Gospel. Both His death and resurrection are essential to the Gospel.

We are saved, regenerated, and born again when we hear and believe the Gospel. THE WHOLE GOSPEL. After that, we can talk all day long about sanctification, or how a Christian should walk.

The rest is silliness.
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Not if you want to explain the Gospel . Explain the components of salvation and avoid years of false teaching .
 
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