Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[John146]

John 10:27.

Ahh, the old sheep reference again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

Or sometimes just reading the text and taking it for what it says is the best way to go

like eternal life for instance

reading it and understanding no matter where it is written, it speaks of living forever, not some form of conditional life many want to profess

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL Your using every Calvinist proof text , which is further proving my point here .

Lol, once again you prove you have blinders and a deep seated hate that you can not see

it may be able to be used by them,but it does not prove their theology, and it also is not strictly calvin.

i think the question many need to be asking is do you believe one can lose salvation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow ,your confused . That's not what I believe . I think you have about 1 point in there thats sort of what I believe.

Hmm, sounds like how you interpret others beliefs,

 

[John146]

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory

word for word amen

Yes, from the beginning this is the method God chose to save the Gentiles, through sanctification and belief in the truth through the gospel given to Paul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a biblical issue, that of (Doctrine)

God has foreknowledge, he predestinates, calls, justify's, and glorifys all believers.

As Romans 9:20-24 clearly teaches, God makes vessels of honor/saved and vessels of dishonor/unsaved

So easy a 1st grader can understand it

Romans 8:29-30KJV
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 9:20-24KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I agree with everything except your Romans 9 interpretation.which is not talking about saved or unsaved, but the nation of Israel, remember in the OT, God told the author, what if he created a vessel out of clay and it BECAME MARRED in his hand, does he not have the right to destroy it and start over again? He is talking about what he plans to do with Isreal, who he created as a work of art, but through it sin became marred, he is still working on doing this,
the fatalistic view of Romans 9 is misleading and incorrect, context does not support it

 

[Adstar]

I think John is pointing out when God 'knows ' us as sons . My contention is that where is these ideas coming from . I don't believe anyone can arrive at these 'calvinstic 'conclusions from reading the bible . Calvinism cannot be arrived at from the bible . People learn the theology before they are grounded in the scriptures.

I am not a T.U.L.I.P Calvinist.. I have spent years preaching against Calvinism.. I would suggest you look into Calvanisim's TULIP 5 doctrines so that you can know the difference between calvinism and what i believe in..

I believe what the Bible says about Gods foreknowledge and His predestining people from that foreknowledge into the image of Jesus.. Calvinisim is very different.. it says God created some people to be saved because He was always going to force them to believe and that God created others who served no other purpose but to burn in torment in the lake of fire forever and ever simply because God pre-decided not to control their minds and force them to believe in Him..

 

[Adstar]

' selected '? No Chosen IN HIM TO BE .... not salvation. Not to be saved . These are already saved who Paul is addressing.
Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

You're making absolutly no sense here.. You're creating your own interpretation of words meanings that are not what they mean especially in context..

 

[Adstar]

Lol, yes me too. My question is, when dies God know someone as a son? According to Galatians 4 it is the point in time when one believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

Is a son..

Will be a son..

Two different knowledges .. Two different topics.. Two different discussions..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not a T.U.L.I.P Calvinist.. I have spent years preaching against Calvinism.. I would suggest you look into Calvanisim's TULIP 5 doctrines so that you can know the difference between calvinism and what i believe in..

I believe what the Bible says about Gods foreknowledge and His predestining people from that foreknowledge into the image of Jesus.. Calvinisim is very different.. it says God created some people to be saved because He was always going to force them to believe and that God created others who served no other purpose but to burn in torment in the lake of fire forever and ever simply because God pre-decided not to control their minds and force them to believe in Him..

Love the post. Just wanted to make a correction. Calvinist do not believe god forces people to believe in him. They believe god opens their eyes so they can believe in him

 

[Duskey]

Just curious to find out how different people here understand this verse/phrase. What does it mean that we are Elect according to the foreknowledge of God?

It’s obvious that it means that Election is based on God’s foreknowledge, but there are different views as to what that means.

Discuss, if you please.

Romans 5:18

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree with everything except your Romans 9 interpretation.which is not talking about saved or unsaved, but the nation of Israel, remember in the OT, God told the author, what if he created a vessel out of clay and it BECAME MARRED in his hand, does he not have the right to destroy it and start over again? He is talking about what he plans to do with Isreal, who he created as a work of art, but through it sin became marred, he is still working on doing this,
the fatalistic view of Romans 9 is misleading and incorrect, context does not support it

The verses below clearly explains God's (Foreknowledge) the topic.

The passage is talking about the remnant Jew that will be saved and Added to the church, the vessels of honor spoken about includes all saved, both Jew and Gentile.

The remnant Jew was predestined, just as all believers are predestined.

Many falsely teach, (All Jews/Israel) will be saved, a false teaching, Only the remnant Jew will be saved, the rest will be blinded.

Romans 11:7-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Romans 9:20-24KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Adstar]

Love the post. Just wanted to make a correction. Calvinist do not believe god forces people to believe in him. They believe god opens their eyes so they can believe in him

Well this is the definition of the U in TULIP

"U" in "TULIP" stands for "Unconditional Election" (Predestination).

"God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selects. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation."

This definition means that it's 100% Gods doing.. According to calvinism God gives everything.. Faith repentence.. ""These acts are the result , not the cause of Gods Choice""

 

[OIC1965]

That's not drawing, I meant like the father draws . We have a couple of verse that says the Father draws ( before the cross ) . Which for a couple verse , it gets an awful lot of attention.

I notice you haven't quoted the whole verse . And could you explain its context also please ?
Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

It is in context of a contrast with those who will be deceived by the man of sin. Those who do not love the truth will be sent a strong delusion, which is a result of the hand of God which restrains the evil being removed. God restrains evil, and God removes restraint. He’s Soveriegn that way.

Unlike those who will be deceived, the Thessalonian believers have been chosen by God from the beginning. They are chosen for salvation through the sanctification of the Spirit, (which is a work of God) and through faith in the truth.

It was for salvation through the work of the Spirit and faith that they were called BY GOD THROUGH THE GOSPEL, for the purpose of being glorified with Christ.

So they were CHOSEN for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and faith, this was accomplished when they were CALLED BY GOD through the Gospel. The end result of salvation will be final glorification.

Chosen, called, believed, saved, glorified.

 

[Adstar]

Well this is the definition of the U in TULIP

"U" in "TULIP" stands for "Unconditional Election" (Predestination).

"God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selects. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation."

This definition means that it's 100% Gods doing.. According to calvinism God gives everything.. Faith repentence.. ""These acts are the result , not the cause of Gods Choice""

Oh and just to add the grace of God according to calvinism is irresistable to those God has and will force to become saved..

"I" in "TULIP" stands for "Irresistible Grace."

"In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is he dependant upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended."

 

[OIC1965]

Wow ,your confused . That's not what I believe . I think you have about 1 point in there thats sort of what I believe.

Which ONE Point do you believe?

 

[OIC1965]

Through ?

Sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth, all being accomplished by the CALL OF GOD THROUGH THE GOSPEL.

 

[OIC1965]

The order is this .We are lost and without God before we believe.
Eph 2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

This is our state before we believe . We are not secretly arbitrarily hand picked somehow in eterninty past in some Gnostic ' choosing 'council .

When we are born ,we are not the frozen chosen awaiting to be zapped awake to reveal that we were Gods chosen all a long . No the bible says we were lost and without hope.

After hearing and believing the Gospel . 1 cor 1.21 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

This happens : Eph 1

13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The Holy Spirit seals us until the redemption of the body. This is the PRE - DESTINATION for all those who are now in Christ .
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

3. Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

4. Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

5. Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

6. There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)

7. Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)

8. Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

9. Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

10. When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

11. Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

12. Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

13. The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

14. The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

15. What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

16. Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

17. Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

The order is foreknown , predestined, called, justified, glorified.

And according to the Thessalonian text above, the call is to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Don’t get worked up by the order I just put things in. I am carefully following what Paul wrote.

 

[OIC1965]

Romans 5:18

Yes, just as we were once dead, being in Adam, we have been made alive in Christ through faith, having been called of God through the Gospel unto salvation.

 

[OIC1965]

Love the post. Just wanted to make a correction. Calvinist do not believe god forces people to believe in him. They believe god opens their eyes so they can believe in him

I give God all the glory because He did open my eyes and my heart.