Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[cv5]

The Bible says whosoever will may come. Just because God knows who will come doesn't mean He stops anyone from coming to Him. The Bible says "choose you this day". We have a choice to accept Him or reject Him.

Amen.
There are a lot of similar scriptures. Hyper-Calvinism is way off the rails.

 

[cv5]

Judicial hardening?

Sounds good to me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Bible says whosoever will may come. Just because God knows who will come doesn't mean He stops anyone from coming to Him. The Bible says "choose you this day". We have a choice to accept Him or reject Him.

Kaylagrl, I think that if you will search the scriptures, you will find that the choices to serve God comes from people who have already been spiritually born again. Joshua, who said "choose you this day" Joshua 24:15, was the one who God choose to lead Israel into the promised land after Moses"s death.

 

[throughfaith]

I agree. But when someone rejects Christ, they are acting according to their nature. Left to ourselves, we do not desire or truly seek God.

And when one receives Christ, it is because the Father drew them to Christ.

No one can come unless the Father draws

Now I differ fromCalvinism in that I do not hold to irresistable grace ( among a few other things).

Do you hold to previenient grace ? if not irresistible. I call this Soft calvinisms answer to irresistible grace .

 

[OIC1965]

Sounds good to me.

Yes, God can show mercy when He wills and judicially harden whom He will and none of us can say “what are you doing”?

But in anticipation to protests, He does nothing arbitrarily. What He chooses is both infinitely righteous and wise.

 

[John146]

Do you not understand personal relationship as apposed to a non personal relationship?

Israel was known of god. Does this
Mean God did not know Nineveh? Or was it that he had a personal
Relationship with them

Exactly! The Galatians were now sons. God now knows them as sons, not before they believed. When one believes upon Jesus, God now knows them as a son! God's foreknowledge is concerning becoming a son. Now that ye are known of God as sons...

 

[OIC1965]

Do you hold to previenient grace ? if not irresistible. I call this Soft calvinisms answer to irresistible grace .

Not as defined by Arminians, but I do believe in a work or series of works that God does that happens before our faith, drawing us to faith.

As it has been said “why do you kick against the pricks”.

 

[cv5]

But the New Birth occurs at conversion. Peter declares it already done in believers. (1 Peter 1:3 and 1:23).

We receive our inheritance at the point of our glorification.

1 Pet 1:4
to an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, being reserved in the heavens for you,

 

[John146]

Yep

And why are we personally known?

Because we are now sons of god.

The problem I think we have is trying to use our human terms to explain God.

Yes, which means before those Galatians became sons of God through Jesus, they were not known of God as His sons. Therefore, foreknowledge is God knowing you as a son. That happens in time when one believes upon Jesus.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[OIC1965]

We receive our inheritance at the point of our glorification.

1 Pet 1:4
to an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, being reserved in the heavens for you,

Agreed. But that’s not talking about the timing of our new birth.

 

[John146]

According to Romans 8:29-30, which comes first? Calling, justification or predestination?

For the believer, they all are simultaneously. When one calls upon the name of the Lord for salvation, one is predestined unto the future adoption, is called and is immediately justified.

 

[John146]

But predestination precedes both. Whom He foreknew He predestinated, called, justified, glorified.

God's got to have knowledge of you as a son to predestine you to the future adoption. No one is predestined for salvation. That's not biblical.

 

[throughfaith]

Not as defined by Arminians, but I do believe in a work or series of works that God does that happens before our faith, drawing us to faith.

As it has been said “why do you kick against the pricks”.

For Paul ? Yes God can use means . Big Fish ,blinding lights ect . But it just reveals those specific accounts for those specific people.

 

[OIC1965]

Yes, which means before those Galatians became sons of God through Jesus, they were not known of God as His sons. Therefore, foreknowledge is God knowing you as a son. That happens in time when one believes upon Jesus.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Knowing and foreknowing are slightly different.

The fact remains that predestination occurs before calling, and calling is the act of God that brings us to salvation. So predestination is before salvation.

 

[cv5]

Agreed. But that’s not talking about the timing of our new birth.

Yes I'm aware of that. I thought I would bring up that point to eliminate that factor so that a better focus could be obtained on the original question.

 

[OIC1965]

God's got to have knowledge of you as a son to predestine you to the future adoption. No one is predestined for salvation. That's not biblical.

I never said predestination for salvation. I did say predestination before calling, which kind of negates predestination after faith.

It’s predestinate

Then calling, which leads to faith

Then justification, the result of faith

Then glorification. The end result of it all.

 

[throughfaith]

I never said predestination for salvation. I did say predestination before calling, which kind of negates predestination after faith.

It’s predestinate

Then calling, which leads to faith

Then justification, the result of faith

Then glorification. The end result of it all.

There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)

 

[John146]

Knowing and foreknowing are slightly different.

The fact remains that predestination occurs before calling, and calling is the act of God that brings us to salvation. So predestination is before salvation.

Scripture please about calling?

Before God predestines you, He's got to have knowledge of you, thus foreknowledge. He knows you ahead of time.

 

[OIC1965]

For Paul ? Yes God can use means . Big Fish ,blinding lights ect . But it just reveals those specific accounts for those specific people.

yes, God can use many means to draw people to Christ. I used the term pricks, because it refers to goads. Something that God uses to get your attention and get you moving to Christ.

 

[cv5]

Knowing and foreknowing are slightly different.

The fact remains that predestination occurs before calling, and calling is the act of God that brings us to salvation. So predestination is before salvation.

Yes, paradoxically you can in fact be predestined and elect and not yet be born again.
At least in terms of our time bound existence here.

However for the elect being born again is inevitable, all bound together in the predeterminate will of God.