How old is our creation really?

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Jul 9, 2020
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#81
While the Bible is known to make gigantic leaps in time without specific details. It seems at first sight Abraham was born about 2000 years after Adam. This would show us a young creation according to our Bible.

Yet science had me almost convinced our earth is billions of years old. But knowing they lie and mock anyone raising serious questions I denounced science when it comes to our origins. I was really devoted in my studies but all I found was slander, corruptions, half truths to sell a full lie...

Yet my own mind raised a serious question last night: If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?

Maybe I should rewatch my beliefs on this and only see human life as a young creation? Any insight in this is very welcomed.
Fundamental,
Your instincts are really good! They absolutely do mock our Creator. Science is a sham. They lie on their studies. They lie to get more funding. Anyone that just believes them at face value is an imbecile.

Now to answer your question, maybe think about it this way...
Our God is infinite. He exists outside of the time dimension. So if that's the case, then what's the difference if He created this world 8000 years ago or 4 billion years ago? It's the same. It's no different because when he made our world, he also made time itself. He made the rules of space and time. He made gravity. And guess what? He's probably the only one that actually understands quantum physics!

I'd suggest to reread the last part of the book of Job. God lays the smack down and some of what He said there might speak to some of the questions you're posing.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#82
Well I never made any claims about Darwin period.

There is a bunch of scientific evidence for human evolution. Besides genetics we see tons of fossil evidence. There are literally millions of search hits by typing in human evolution. It’s 2am where I live and I only woke up to turn on a generator because Hurricane Sally knocked out power. I’ll try to respond more in depth sometime later. I also suggest checking out the forums in BioLogos where dozens of experts are there and can answer these questions from their own research and careers.
Indeed you did not address Darwin but spoke of evolution. There is zero proof of evolution in mankind.
By that I mean the origins of mankind. There is proof of evolution by things I exampled such as natural selection or genetic drift.
Chromosome2 is just a hypothesis. Isn’t it funny how anything contradictory gets backed up by a hypothesis where there is zero shred proof for?
Comparing our DNA to chimps does not give us an outcome over 90 procent identical DNA. Sure if you only look at a small fraction and call the rest junk DNA you can find over 90 procent simularity. But in fact they just watched how chromosomes sequence in their amino acids. Those aminoacids sequence alike, but aminoacids in our chromosomes do not resemble over 90 procent of our DNA.

Digging up a fossil does not make it automaticly your ancestor. For all we care homo erectus wast just another species gone extinct. Most species gone extinct will never ever be discovered.

When they dog up Tiktaalik and reconstructed his neck and parts of his jaw I started to really take notice of their “hocus pocus”. They dig up a species and say “aha an ancestor!” They push the observation to their conclusions while there are infinite other possibilites.

As regards our understanding of how old the earth really is from the Scriptures, that depends totally on our interpretation of them.

1) If we just look at the first 3 chapters of Genesis as the full account of creation, we will (generally) arrive at a "young earth."

2) However, if we look at all the Scriptures on the account of creation, an individual will (generally) arrive with an "old earth" view.

Like the study of all the Scriptures, we should approach it with an attitude of the Bereans in Acts 17v10-12, and the prophets in 1Peter 1v10-12.

I spent two and a half years studying this out with MUCH prayer and ended up writing a study on it...
I end up with the conclusion human beings are young but the material surrounding us makes me doubt that.
It makes me even conclude the biology of this earth has been changed by external sources. Religion says it’s fallen angels, new age says it’s aliens, science says it was mutation.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#83
Plants and animals were created distinct kinds .. Each original kind contained all the vast DNA-RNA information to breed out into every variation of it's kind today .. In any environment to breed out according to what was equipped in the original created kind .. You can not add or evolve DNA .. In Africa the harmful mutations added up quicker caused by harsher living conditions and DNA damage to appear an older population .. Mutations are almost never helpful but harmful ..
Question Bojack,
If we take all species Noah took on his arc. Can we get to this bio diversity in few thousand years? Given in account most aquatic creatures having survived the flood.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#84
God created time. Whenever He started creating, evening, morning one day ... there was a beginning ... to time. Here's the point. The earth was created with a semblance of age. He created full grown plants, animals, humans, not seeds and embryos flopping around on the ground. In other words, if you could transport a group of scientists back to day seven of creation, except for the differences that would result in no rain, the earth being watered by a mist, a greater and a lesser light, no rainbows ... the earth, and universe would pretty much appear as it does today ... except for the earth not being divided and a few other things. We also have the concept of the original earth being created for the angels as they were present when the foundations of the earth were laid, and as when we humans had issues with sin, it is quite possible that when the angels sinned the garden of Eden that Satan walked amongst and the garden of Eden that Adam walked in, were quite different.

The earth being formless and void represents the one time in all creation that something created wasn't perfectly formed to start out with unless you use the other Hebrew meaning for the word translated as void, meaning "Lost it's proper function". But then, when Satan and a third of the host of heaven sinned, if this was their planet, destruction of it, given the flood, and the end of this current world fits fully.

So what age are you looking for? How long before the angels sinned? How long before the earth was "recreated" which is another possible translation for another Hebrew word in Genesis? the creatures listed in Job, how long ago did they exist?
The answer lies in our perspective of time. A day on earth is 24h. Our orbit around the sun takes a year. A year on earth is about 366 days. Depending on the season you’ll have longer nights or longer days. Time is relative and depends at the angle and pace of objects moving through space.

Putting time in reverse we get a moon that is much closer to our earth, thus different seasons and tides. Yet it is in this time “perfected” and keep adding more time (back) in this current model will only give an earth that is inhospitable for life presented in the old model.
It would be too fierce.

So really while we are thinking to look at an old model, we are also looking at observations that add up to a much younger creation.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#85
Question Bojack,
If we take all species Noah took on his arc. Can we get to this bio diversity in few thousand years? Given in account most aquatic creatures having survived the flood.
Yes, every kind, at least two of each kind with the breath of life
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
#86
Fundamental,
Your instincts are really good! They absolutely do mock our Creator. Science is a sham. They lie on their studies. They lie to get more funding. Anyone that just believes them at face value is an imbecile.

Now to answer your question, maybe think about it this way...
Our God is infinite. He exists outside of the time dimension. So if that's the case, then what's the difference if He created this world 8000 years ago or 4 billion years ago? It's the same. It's no different because when he made our world, he also made time itself. He made the rules of space and time. He made gravity. And guess what? He's probably the only one that actually understands quantum physics!

I'd suggest to reread the last part of the book of Job. God lays the smack down and some of what He said there might speak to some of the questions you're posing.
I find it very important because we need to keep all options on the table so investigations are not narrowed down. Nor is it wise for some old men to dominate the scene and mock our children for believing otherwise. Nor should those luciferian scientists force their theory into christian schools.

People speak so much of racism today but they are blinded by a past. What we got out of Darwin was social darwinism and it did the world no good. Why do schools not educate in that too? It’s simply blanked out and we get a lie in return.

I want to bring God into their lives but at the same time I want them to get good education. One has chosen modern science as study and of course she will be taught in the theory of evolution. I just wished education would give more options and not narrow down the field.
Creationism is much richer then that evil lucion theory. Genetic changes (evolution) taking place needs not be pulled out of context to explain where everything came from.
Something else took place and it’s left behind by ancestors we simply don’t understand anymore.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#87
The answer lies in our perspective of time. A day on earth is 24h. Our orbit around the sun takes a year. A year on earth is about 366 days. Depending on the season you’ll have longer nights or longer days. Time is relative and depends at the angle and pace of objects moving through space.

Putting time in reverse we get a moon that is much closer to our earth, thus different seasons and tides. Yet it is in this time “perfected” and keep adding more time (back) in this current model will only give an earth that is inhospitable for life presented in the old model.
It would be too fierce.

So really while we are thinking to look at an old model, we are also looking at observations that add up to a much younger creation.
I've seen the math on population and including war, plagues, whaterver .. Even a traced bottleneck of as few as 4 males figure back to about the time of the flood Y-chromosome Noah and Mitochondrial Eve goes back to a single female .. Eve would become the other of all the living
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#88
Yep, I studied the young earth evidence for about 1 year solid, man is a liar trying Desparately to remove God from the hearts and minds of his Creation.

You can go to caves and cavern tours, and the guide will always mention in reference to the hanging stalactites (Thousands & Thousands) of years ago, a (LIE)

Just as they lie about evolution, Piltdown man being the fraud in 1912, and mans lie was kept aiive for 41 years, put into public school textbooks and museums world wide, and exposed as a fraud in 1953.

Just like the Media (Fake News) false lying narratives today, as California fires burn out of control, with Governor Newsom and Kamala Harris shouting climate change in recent video clips a (Lie)

A large majority of these fires were intentional arson, and human interaction, as the liberal democrats are trying desperately to build a platform of lies.

Creation.com

Rapid stalactites
by Stephen Meyers and Robert Doolan

Those beautiful stone ‘icicles’ you see hanging from the ceiling of limestone caves are called stalactites (they ‘stay tight’ on the ceiling). The forms you see growing up from the cave floor are called stalagmites. When they meet, the joined pair becomes a column. Sheet-like layered deposits on cave walls or floors are called flowstone.
Although these fantastic features are commonly thought to represent perhaps tens of thousands of years or more of groundwater action,1 there is much evidence that they can form rapidly under certain conditions. For example, Sequoyah Caverns, south of Chattanooga at Valley Head, Alabama, has fast-growing formations. Director of the caverns, Clark Byers, cemented a clear plastic panel in front of some stalactites in April, 1977, to prevent tourists from breaking them off. In less than 10 years the stalactites grew about 25 centimetres (10 inches or one inch per year). On the ceiling of the cave, animal tracks can be seen, and there are fossils of many marine creatures—plus a bird fossil which looks like a chicken. In an interview in 1985, cavern director Byers made no secret of the fact that he believes these fossils are a result of Noah’s Flood.
So how fast can stalactites and stalagmites form?
Bat Cave
In October 1953, National Geographic published a photo of a bat that had fallen on a stalagmite in the famous Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico, and had been cemented on to it. The stalagmite had grown so fast it was able to preserve the bat before the creature had time to decompose.2
Stalactites many centimetres long are sometimes seen under modern-day bridges and in tunnels. Some stalactites have formed quickly in a tunnel in Raccoon Mountain, just west of Chattanooga, Tennessee. The tunnel was blasted through the mountain’s limestone rock to build a power plant in 1977. Water from the plant’s pump-turbines dissolves the limestone, and stalactites form rapidly.
At Australia’s Jenolan Caves in New South Wales, a lemonade bottle was placed below a continually active stalactite in the ‘Temple of Baal’ in 1954. In the following 33 years a coating of calcite about three millimetres thick has formed on the bottle. The same amount of deposit has formed since development in 1932 of the Ribbon Cave in the jenolan system. At this time pathways were cut through areas of flowstone. Water flowing down the sides of these cuttings over the past 55 years has built up the current deposit.
A photograph taken in February, 1968, shows a curtain of stalactites growing from the foundation ceiling beneath the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC. Some of the stalactites had grown to five feet long (a metre and a half) in the 45 years since the memorial was built in 1923.3
At jenolan Caves and many other places there are examples of stalactites and stalagmites developing from man-made structures. Like the Lincoln Memorial, the jenolan structures contain cement-mortar which is highly permeable, allowing these formations to develop rapidly. The resultant formation is quite powdery and brittle however.
If you add up the years of genealogy, then add 2020 years since Christ, you'll find the earth is less than 15,000 years old.
Less than 10,000
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,008
113
#89
Yep, I studied the young earth evidence for about 1 year solid, man is a liar trying Desparately to remove God from the hearts and minds of his Creation.

You can go to caves and cavern tours, and the guide will always mention in reference to the hanging stalactites (Thousands & Thousands) of years ago, a (LIE)

Just as they lie about evolution, Piltdown man being the fraud in 1912, and mans lie was kept aiive for 41 years, put into public school textbooks and museums world wide, and exposed as a fraud in 1953.

Just like the Media (Fake News) false lying narratives today, as California fires burn out of control, with Governor Newsom and Kamala Harris shouting climate change in recent video clips a (Lie)

A large majority of these fires were intentional arson, and human interaction, as the liberal democrats are trying desperately to build a platform of lies.

Creation.com

Rapid stalactites
by Stephen Meyers and Robert Doolan

Those beautiful stone ‘icicles’ you see hanging from the ceiling of limestone caves are called stalactites (they ‘stay tight’ on the ceiling). The forms you see growing up from the cave floor are called stalagmites. When they meet, the joined pair becomes a column. Sheet-like layered deposits on cave walls or floors are called flowstone.
Although these fantastic features are commonly thought to represent perhaps tens of thousands of years or more of groundwater action,1 there is much evidence that they can form rapidly under certain conditions. For example, Sequoyah Caverns, south of Chattanooga at Valley Head, Alabama, has fast-growing formations. Director of the caverns, Clark Byers, cemented a clear plastic panel in front of some stalactites in April, 1977, to prevent tourists from breaking them off. In less than 10 years the stalactites grew about 25 centimetres (10 inches or one inch per year). On the ceiling of the cave, animal tracks can be seen, and there are fossils of many marine creatures—plus a bird fossil which looks like a chicken. In an interview in 1985, cavern director Byers made no secret of the fact that he believes these fossils are a result of Noah’s Flood.
So how fast can stalactites and stalagmites form?
Bat Cave
In October 1953, National Geographic published a photo of a bat that had fallen on a stalagmite in the famous Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico, and had been cemented on to it. The stalagmite had grown so fast it was able to preserve the bat before the creature had time to decompose.2
Stalactites many centimetres long are sometimes seen under modern-day bridges and in tunnels. Some stalactites have formed quickly in a tunnel in Raccoon Mountain, just west of Chattanooga, Tennessee. The tunnel was blasted through the mountain’s limestone rock to build a power plant in 1977. Water from the plant’s pump-turbines dissolves the limestone, and stalactites form rapidly.
At Australia’s Jenolan Caves in New South Wales, a lemonade bottle was placed below a continually active stalactite in the ‘Temple of Baal’ in 1954. In the following 33 years a coating of calcite about three millimetres thick has formed on the bottle. The same amount of deposit has formed since development in 1932 of the Ribbon Cave in the jenolan system. At this time pathways were cut through areas of flowstone. Water flowing down the sides of these cuttings over the past 55 years has built up the current deposit.
A photograph taken in February, 1968, shows a curtain of stalactites growing from the foundation ceiling beneath the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC. Some of the stalactites had grown to five feet long (a metre and a half) in the 45 years since the memorial was built in 1923.3
At jenolan Caves and many other places there are examples of stalactites and stalagmites developing from man-made structures. Like the Lincoln Memorial, the jenolan structures contain cement-mortar which is highly permeable, allowing these formations to develop rapidly. The resultant formation is quite powdery and brittle however.
Me too Bro .. I didn't go to school or take any classes but learned on my own .. Kent Hovind kept me informed .. I just wanted to have answers to the same questions I had before I got saved when I witnessed Jesus to others .. I didn't like just saying ''because the Bible says so''.. I've done a lot of prayer with fasting like everybody else because I wanted answers to the hard questions you get on the streets and to be convinced in my own mind with confidence .. I am so convinced today that I'm sure I come across as harsh sometimes .. I remember when those who taught ''evolution, big bang, and life just beginning billions of yrs ago on it's own was harder to argue with before we had the many facts like we have today ..
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#90
Ice sheet thickness in Greenland using the ''lost squadron'' for a scale puts you real close to the great flood biblical time (not millions of yrs), total depth of ice to ground rock .. When the idea of retrieving the lost squadron began it was thought it was under 12 ft of ice at the most .. And remember, there was no rain until the year Methuselah died and after he died
Nice info. Thanks for taking the trouble. Go well bro.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#91
While our particular version of creation is not very old, God is eternal. So I don't thing God was taking a long nap doing nothing for eternity passed.
I'm sure He has been creating and recreating for eternity. The Bible gives the history of creation as it pertains to us. It's very possible that God has used and reused this matter for millions of years.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#92
Good point .. Some folks believe God set the earth on its 23-24 degree axis caused the great flood, seasons, and sudden low pressure for the first time and crashing the vapor canopy
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Well possible. He is the Creator and if He can make the earth out of nothing, and stop the rotation for a day, He is certainly capable of anything. Praise Him for His Power!
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#93
Why do you say that this era predated Noah?
Adam was made after the Beasts. Noah is eight generations removed from Adam. So dinosaurs would have been part of the pre-flood era. They did not survive the post-flood era, other wise we would see them today. I suppose though, that you are still correct in holding me to precise statements. Noah belonged to both eras. I should have said "this era predated that of the Covenant of the Rainbow."

But methinks you are actually in disagreement with something else. Your questions are like those of a clever lawyer. One by one he builds a case by asking the right questions. Then, because the questions were tailored, he can suddenly pounce with another question. They do this in various selection processes for elite troops to see if he can handle complex issues. They lead you by asking questions, and after an hour the have spun a web where the next question, if answered honestly, contradicts your answer to one of the earlier questions. They knowingly do this, and in that moment they find out a lot about you.

But, as I ask for precision from others, I am constrained to admit when you find imprecision with me. Is there something you want to discuss. Be blunt. It saves a lot of writing.

Go well bro.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#94
While the Bible is known to make gigantic leaps in time without specific details. It seems at first sight Abraham was born about 2000 years after Adam. This would show us a young creation according to our Bible.

Yet science had me almost convinced our earth is billions of years old. But knowing they lie and mock anyone raising serious questions I denounced science when it comes to our origins. I was really devoted in my studies but all I found was slander, corruptions, half truths to sell a full lie...

Yet my own mind raised a serious question last night: If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?

Maybe I should rewatch my beliefs on this and only see human life as a young creation? Any insight in this is very welcomed.
Study the flood. It will Answer all your questions And answer all the issues that appear to make it appear the age of the earth is old

I believe the earth is 6-10 thousand years. I used to be baffled by science also but no more

There are at least two theories that would dispel the notion of an old earth and focus is on flood
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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#95
Adam was made after the Beasts. Noah is eight generations removed from Adam. So dinosaurs would have been part of the pre-flood era. They did not survive the post-flood era, other wise we would see them today. I suppose though, that you are still correct in holding me to precise statements. Noah belonged to both eras. I should have said "this era predated that of the Covenant of the Rainbow."

But methinks you are actually in disagreement with something else. Your questions are like those of a clever lawyer. One by one he builds a case by asking the right questions. Then, because the questions were tailored, he can suddenly pounce with another question. They do this in various selection processes for elite troops to see if he can handle complex issues. They lead you by asking questions, and after an hour the have spun a web where the next question, if answered honestly, contradicts your answer to one of the earlier questions. They knowingly do this, and in that moment they find out a lot about you.

But, as I ask for precision from others, I am constrained to admit when you find imprecision with me. Is there something you want to discuss. Be blunt. It saves a lot of writing.

Go well bro.
How do you account for all the cultural references to dinosaurs in post flood art and Marco Polo referring to dragons .. Reptiles grow as long as they live so if they lived longer under different better environments pre flood they would have been older and larger .. Not just dinosaurs but everything pre flood ..
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#96
Were there oil, gas and coal deposits in the ground pre flood ?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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#97
And what is the big deal trying to force birds being evolved from dinosaurs .. Some dinosaurs , mammals, fish, insects, could/can fly by design but some birds don't fly ..
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#98
Perhaps Adam and Eve were not the only created on day 6
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Interesting thought, however I don't think I am comfortable with that point of view, form a Scriptural perspective.

v,27 Says God created man - singular. This man had the image of God in some way. God also created the sexes, male and female. The language is still singular, until the last "them" because now their are two and God does not want one to think that an individual is both male and female. V.28, this thought continues - just two.

I do find the word "replenish" interesting, since it carries the idea of the earth, at one time, may have had something akin to man on it. Just a thought.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,863
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#99
Adam was made after the Beasts. Noah is eight generations removed from Adam. So dinosaurs would have been part of the pre-flood era. They did not survive the post-flood era, other wise we would see them today. I suppose though, that you are still correct in holding me to precise statements. Noah belonged to both eras. I should have said "this era predated that of the Covenant of the Rainbow."

But methinks you are actually in disagreement with something else. Your questions are like those of a clever lawyer. One by one he builds a case by asking the right questions. Then, because the questions were tailored, he can suddenly pounce with another question. They do this in various selection processes for elite troops to see if he can handle complex issues. They lead you by asking questions, and after an hour the have spun a web where the next question, if answered honestly, contradicts your answer to one of the earlier questions. They knowingly do this, and in that moment they find out a lot about you.

But, as I ask for precision from others, I am constrained to admit when you find imprecision with me. Is there something you want to discuss. Be blunt. It saves a lot of writing.

Go well bro.
Hey... I appreciate your feedback. I do tend to ask very focused questions; I would rather ask someone what they believe than tell them what their statements say about their beliefs. Most people don't like being told what they believe! :)

My intent is not to attack, or even trap, but to bring to light. However, I have been told many times that I should have been a lawyer.

As to "other wise we would see them today", I would encourage you to do some more research, both on recent (AD era) evidence of dinosaurs and of the flood. ICR and Answers in Genesis both have reams of evidence available on their web sites.
 
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How do you account for all the cultural references to dinosaurs in post flood art and Marco Polo referring to dragons .. Reptiles grow as long as they live so if they lived longer under different better environments pre flood they would have been older and larger .. Not just dinosaurs but everything pre flood ..
I must admit ignorance here. Everything I would say is just theory. As I said in an earlier posting, 1st Peter 3:20-21 indicates that the flood "saved" the eight in that the past and its pollutions were not to be found. That is, they happened but could not be detected. If I follow the example of the New Earth, the inspired record says that "former things are passed away" and "ALL things are new" (Rev.21:4-5). The Greek word rendered "new" means "Renewed", or, "made pristine". I believe that Adam had no evidence of the world before Genesis 1:2, and that Noah's grandchildren would also have had only verbal accounts from their parents. To me, the large creatures whose fossils we view, are more proof of the flood than what happened before the flood.

As to large reptile-like references, I would venture, but not be adamant, that Satan does not let us forget him. He is a serpent in Eden and a Great Dragon 6,000 years later in Revelation. In Ezekiel Chapter 8, some 2,000 years before Marco Polo, the Jews had engraved serpents on the walls under the Temple. Maybe all cultures somehow refer back to the Serpent.