Chosen by God - A study in Election

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jackrosie said:
I have been asking you this for weeks...how much time do you need?

Many,,come to the Lord,or should I say the Lord comes to them,without reading a bible.

I should know,God Saved me,without a bible..for some reason you find that extremely hard to swallow.
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it is because of people's beliefs i guess? Everything it seems must match up to exact Exact beliefs (some have previously decided on) or it is rejected no matter, no matter what for some. :(


instead it should be somewhat opposite (depending where a person is in Learning and growth Maybe -- milk, herbs Meat). you must Become as Child to enter the Kingdom Jesus said. a Child is -- Open-minded, Questioning, learning New things, Innocent of Heart, growing and - E x p a n d i n g - their Knowledge, changing, Maturing day by Day, leaving behind the Milk, going On to solid Foods (herbs, Meat), ect., ect.. :)
 
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John146 said:
If I’m chosen to believe against my will, then it’s not belief.
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Tell that to Paul. He never knew what hit him. Until later. Come to think of it there's no evidence indicate that Paul heard the gospel before he was summoned by Jesus Christ for service.
 
John146 said:
If I’m chosen to believe against my will, then it’s not belief.
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One other thing. There is zero evidence, absolutely zero, that Paul in any way chose Christ. Paul did not of his own free will FIRST choose Christ.

The Bible clearly states that Paul was himself "chosen"....NOT the other way around!

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for this man is My vessel of choice to carry My name before the Gentiles, and also kings, and the sons of Israel.
 
EleventhHour said:
The truth in your first statement is clear, simple and biblical truth. Amen!!

Calvinism twists, changes, denies God's gracious choice. Can we say then it not the God of the Bible? :unsure:

Proverbs 29:1 states, "He, that being "often" reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy."

If grace is irresistible there would be no need for often.
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God's grace is resisted everyday.
Irresistable grace is never resisted ultimately. That is why it is said to be effectual.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
ROMANS 10: ISRAEL FAILED TO THE OBEY THE GOSPEL
16 But they have not all obeyed the Gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

MATTHEW 23: JUDGMENT CAME UPON ISRAEL FOR DISOBEYING THE GOSPEL
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. [prophecy regarding 70 AD]
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

LUKE 13: THE BARREN FIG TREE (ISRAEL) CUT DOWN
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish*.
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? [Note: Christ spent three and a half years ministering to Israel]
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

*"Ye shall all likewise perish" speaks of eternal damnation (John 3:16). The word "perish" does not mean annihilation. It means eternal ruin in Hell.
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Unless a “SINNER” obeys the Gospel he will remain lost.....you still haven’t produced that scripture.


This scripture is nothing to do with a sinner,before they become born again and are saved by God.

You were talking here and now,....I repeat ,you do not have to read your bible first to be saved.
You also told me on another thread ,that you can’t be saved unless you have read your bible....true or false?
Show me that scripture please?
 
Blue_Of_Lake said:
it is because of people's beliefs i guess? Everything it seems must match up to exact Exact beliefs (some have previously decided on) or it is rejected no matter, no matter what for some. :(


instead it should be somewhat opposite (depending where a person is in Learning and growth Maybe -- milk, herbs Meat). you must Become as Child to enter the Kingdom Jesus said. a Child is -- Open-minded, Questioning, learning New things, Innocent of Heart, growing and - E x p a n d i n g - their Knowledge, changing, Maturing day by Day, leaving behind the Milk, going On to solid Foods (herbs, Meat), ect., ect.. :)
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There is no scripture that says.

Unless a sinner reads and obeys scripture they will remain lost....i was a sinner....I was saved,by God.....without ever reading a bible.

She / they still haven’t come up with that scripture and they never will,because it’s not there.
...so what they teach is untruth and false.
Religion does not save a person.
 
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But Christ is in you,though the body is dead because of sin,the spirit is life because of righteousness.-Romans 8:10

Because the God who said.Out of darkness light shall shine,is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us. Corinthians 4:6-7

But when it please God ....to reveal His Son to me. Galatians 1:15-16

I am crucified with Christ ,and it is no longer I who live,but it is Christ who lives in me. Galatians 2:20

That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.Ephesians 3:17.
 
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cv5 said:
Tell that to Paul. He never knew what hit him. Until later. Come to think of it there's no evidence indicate that Paul heard the gospel before he was summoned by Jesus Christ for service.
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5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
 
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cv5 said:
One other thing. There is zero evidence, absolutely zero, that Paul in any way chose Christ. Paul did not of his own free will FIRST choose Christ.

The Bible clearly states that Paul was himself "chosen"....NOT the other way around!

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for this man is My vessel of choice to carry My name before the Gentiles, and also kings, and the sons of Israel.
Click to expand...

And Paul is an exception, he is not the rule. Scripture specifically states he is a chosen vessel unto God for a purpose. The Lord had been drawing him before his conversion. The Lord Jesus revealed himself to Paul, and Paul believed. He was not forced to believe.
 
Iconoclast said:
Election is unto salvation,those foreknown, predestined, called, justified, are all glorified without exception.
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Jesus Christ is God’s elect. Did He need saving? Their are elect angels. Do they need salvation? You see, elect is a term pointing to service.
 
John146 said:
Jesus Christ is God’s elect. Did He need saving? Their are elect angels. Do they need salvation? You see, elect is a term pointing to service.
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I posted on this earlier. There are 4 kinds of election taught in scripture.
1 nationa

2messianic

3service

4personal unto salvation


Jesus is the elect servant of the Lord, and we are in Saving Union with Him
 
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