Chosen by God - A study in Election

[cv5]

The narrative is to demonstrate that Jesus is the power of the resurrection.

Verse 25 makes it clear... once again you are adding meaning to the text beyond the clear analogy that Jesus makes.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

That is the point .... a physical resurrection of life ... it is a demonstration of that... not about conversion.

Conversion? I never said anything about conversion. It is certainly not in John chapter 11.
And this blanket statement like Jesus undoubtedly refers to ALL the redeemed. ALL believers. Certainly not Lazarus alone. Yes it is a demonstration of power, yes it is a miraculous sign provided for the benefit of onlooking believers and unbelievers alike. Jesus telescopes this one resurrection and points to his universal resurrection power.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Matt 16:17
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

Peter had nothing to do with his ability to discern who Christ really is. It was a gracious gift from the Father. As was his indomitable perseverance to the end.

 

[EleventhHour]

2) Lazarus did not resurrect himself, it was a direct intercessory miracle from Jesus Christ. So to the believer does not possess the power to resurrect themselves from their Spiritually dead condition........it is a gracious work of God, Who takes the initiative to undertake this event.

Conversion? I never said anything about conversion. It is certainly not in John chapter 11.
And this blanket statement like Jesus undoubtedly refers to ALL the redeemed. ALL believers. Certainly not Lazarus alone. Yes it is a demonstration of power, yes it is a miraculous sign provided for the benefit of onlooking believers and unbelievers alike. Jesus telescopes this one resurrection and points to his universal resurrection power.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Matt 16:17
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

Peter had nothing to do with his ability to discern who Christ really is. It was a gracious gift from the Father. As was his indomitable perseverance to the end.

Not sure what you mean by this then...

So to the believer does not possess the power to resurrect themselves from their Spiritually dead condition

Why is this believer spiritually dead?

 

[cv5]

Non-Calvinists have never claimed that the New Birth or the Resurrection are NOT supernatural. So that is another straw man.

But unless YOU believe and obey the Gospel, God the Holy Spirit cannot regenerate you, and Christ cannot give you the resurrection of life. No one is born again before they are actually born again. But that is the absurdity of Calvinism.

Sorry. You got that all wrong. WE HAVE ZERO POWER TO BELIEVE. Belief itself is unquestionably a gift from the Father, from before the foundation of the world.

John 6:36
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe [uh-oh!]. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me [God is selecting His Sons bride out of the world], and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

 

[cv5]

Not sure what you mean by this then...



Why is this believer spiritually dead?

Typo...Obviously.
All people are born spiritually dead unbelievers until Christ and God the Father spiritually quickens them to the new birth, those upon whom the second death has no power.

 

[EleventhHour]

and the one who comes to Me

Those that do not believe have made a choice to not believe.

People come to Him .. that is what I read.

 

[EleventhHour]

Typo...Obviously.
All people are born spiritually dead unbelievers until Christ and God the Father spiritually quickens them to the new birth, those upon whom the second death has no power.

So then you are making it is about being being regenerated/born from above.

 

[cv5]

John 10:26
But you do not believe, because you are not from among My sheep.

What Jesus is NOT saying, is that you are not among my sheep because you do not believe!
Don't twist to Scripture and invert this statement!

 

[cv5]

So then you are making it is about being being regenerated/born from above.

Absolutely correct. Firstly born from above, then and only then will you be see the kingdom of God. This rebirth is a ex-nihilo creative act of God the Father alone. We do not participate nor do we influence it at all. Furthermore, since all of this was foreordained before the foundation of the world, this salvation, this second birth occurs (from God's perspective) in ages past long before
we were ever born to begin with.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

 

[EleventhHour]

John 10:26
But you do not believe, because you are not from among My sheep.

What Jesus is NOT saying, is that you are not among my sheep because you do not believe!
Don't twist to Scripture and invert this statement!

Does this mean they, "His audience" at some later time become a sheep or is this a permanent fixed state for his audience?

 

[cv5]

Conversion? I never said anything about conversion. It is certainly not in John chapter 11.
And this blanket statement like Jesus undoubtedly refers to ALL the redeemed. ALL believers. Certainly not Lazarus alone. Yes it is a demonstration of power, yes it is a miraculous sign provided for the benefit of onlooking believers and unbelievers alike. Jesus telescopes this one resurrection and points to his universal resurrection power.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Matt 16:17
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

Peter had nothing to do with his ability to discern who Christ really is. It was a gracious gift from the Father. As was his indomitable perseverance to the end.

"By" Jesus not "like" Jesus. Typing on my television and there are errors.

 

[cv5]

Does this mean they, "His audience" at some later time become a sheep or is this a permanent fixed state for his audience?

IMO........Only God knows.

 

[EleventhHour]

IMO........Only God knows.

So then you are inferring an election-non election into the discussion Jesus is having which you think supports the inability to believe.

But really it does not.

 

[cv5]

Those that do not believe have made a choice to not believe.

People come to Him .. that is what I read.

The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sin, any sin, including that of refusing to accept Jesus as Savior, imputes blame to the perpetrator alone. It seems entirely likely that fallen men are ONLY capable of making wrong choices in my opinion........as far as spiritual matters are concerned.

There is plenty of reason to believe that Old Testament saints, who followed God's commands and were obedient from the heart, were chosen and gifted to do so from Above.

 

[EleventhHour]

The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sin, any sin, including that of refusing to accept Jesus as Savior, imputes blame to the perpetrator alone. It seems entirely likely that fallen men are ONLY capable of making wrong choices in my opinion........as far as spiritual matters are concerned.

There is plenty of reason to believe that Old Testament saints, who followed God's commands and were obedient from the heart, were chosen and gifted to do so from Above.

Total inability needs to be supported by scripture, as well as effectual calling and God choosing to regenerate some and leaving others no access to eternal life.

So far every proof text for Calvinism when read in context is easily refuted.

 

[cv5]

So then you are inferring an election-non election into the discussion Jesus is having which you think supports the inability to believe.

But really it does not.

That is exactly what I'm saying because that is exactly what the Bible says. I am not going to repost the Scriptures that I already have on this matter, you can scroll back and look at them for yourself.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Father Himself is selecting the Bride, (the believers the Church) for the sake and benefit of His beloved Son.

 

[EleventhHour]

That is exactly what I'm saying because that is exactly what the Bible says. I am not going to repost the Scriptures that I already have on this matter, you can scroll back and look at them for yourself.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Father Himself is selecting the Bride, (the believers the Church) for the sake and benefit of His beloved Son.

Have no doubt I will go back, and then put them in context and show they do not support at all the concept of "chosen few only" while others are denied salvation.

 

[cv5]

Can you give a post where you have supported this with scripture, or else where is this is scripture?
...that is quickening before belief?

Also can you please explain why God only chooses to quicken some when He could quicken all?

1) Already have many times comprehensively
2) I can't explain it but I can allow Paul to comment on it

Rom9
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Rom 11
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”

 

[cv5]

Total inability needs to be supported by scripture, as well as effectual calling and God choosing to regenerate some and leaving others no access to eternal life.

So far every proof text for Calvinism when read in context is easily refuted.

Easily refuted? It's certainly not happening here and now.......not by a long shot.
The greatest theologians from Christ onward have been wrestling with this topic.

The plain fact of Scripture is that Jesus and Paul are saying the same thing:
God the Father is doing the choosing. Indisputably.

 

[EleventhHour]

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Is it possible that this is context specific to Pharaoh?

Perhaps God is not making a pronouncement over all mankind throughout all the ages?

 

[EleventhHour]

Easily refuted?

Okay not easily... it obviously takes time and effort, and maybe not easily done on a discussion board, however having been brought of MacArthurism, CARM. Packer and others who dominant the publishing companies, and all that other Calvinist dogma ... I know that it is all proof text outside of context.

And no worries have patience I will chip away at it.