The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation
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Happy to and have done so repeatedly. Here they are again.
In Matthew 24:29, the sun and moon darken and the stars fall from the sky. These "astral omens" are very similar to the heavenly signs said to accompany the fall of Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26), the fall of Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9), the fall of Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13), and the fall of Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5). And just as various heavenly omens marked a great slaughter at the fall of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom in the sixth century B.C., the same thing happened at the fall of Jerusalem and Israel at the end of the age.
It is important to discuss what is meant by “the end of the age.” The end of the age corresponds with the end of the age of the Law. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus indicates that the customs and laws handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai are symbolic predictions concerning the coming of the Messiah and His kingdom. Upon the fulfillment of these prophetic laws, a new covenant would replace the old one founded on the Law of Moses (Hebrews 8). “The end of the age” is the generation that is expected to witness the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets. In v. 34, Jesus tells His disciples that it is this generation, THEIR GENERATION, that will witness the fulfillment of all these predictions.
The presence of God was there for those 4 OT examples just as the presence of Jesus was there in 70 AD. He returned, as promised!!! Why do you not believe Him, not just you Gary, but all futurists?
In Matthew 24:29, the sun and moon darken and the stars fall from the sky. These "astral omens" are very similar to the heavenly signs said to accompany the fall of Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26), the fall of Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9), the fall of Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13), and the fall of Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5). And just as various heavenly omens marked a great slaughter at the fall of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom in the sixth century B.C., the same thing happened at the fall of Jerusalem and Israel at the end of the age.
It is important to discuss what is meant by “the end of the age.” The end of the age corresponds with the end of the age of the Law. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus indicates that the customs and laws handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai are symbolic predictions concerning the coming of the Messiah and His kingdom. Upon the fulfillment of these prophetic laws, a new covenant would replace the old one founded on the Law of Moses (Hebrews 8). “The end of the age” is the generation that is expected to witness the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets. In v. 34, Jesus tells His disciples that it is this generation, THEIR GENERATION, that will witness the fulfillment of all these predictions.
The presence of God was there for those 4 OT examples just as the presence of Jesus was there in 70 AD. He returned, as promised!!! Why do you not believe Him, not just you Gary, but all futurists?
It's prophetic, symbolic language my good fellow. You have to see how this language is used in the OT to properly apply it in the NT. Remember, it's how they talked and understood that counts, not how we talk. Just as people from 2,000 plus years ago would find it hard to understand all of our use of slang and colloquialism, you are finding it hard to understand them. Read these passages, learn them, understand them. Mat 24 is the same. Israel fell again. It's over and there is no prediction of a future return to earth for Christ.
Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26)
Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9)
Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13)
Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5)
Where are you getting this notion of a spectacular return? The opposite is true. Why do you think the disciples asked for the signs of when His presence would be back? It's precisely because it wouldn't be obvious. Jesus described His return as a Flash of Lightening, meaning it would be super fast. Besides Josephus does record some strange heavenly spiritual events.
Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26)
Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9)
Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13)
Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5)
Where are you getting this notion of a spectacular return? The opposite is true. Why do you think the disciples asked for the signs of when His presence would be back? It's precisely because it wouldn't be obvious. Jesus described His return as a Flash of Lightening, meaning it would be super fast. Besides Josephus does record some strange heavenly spiritual events.
Both of these sentences cannot be true, because of what Paul said in 1Th5:2-3.
He said the DOTL ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor.
That is a STARTING point... which KICKS OFF the time-period known as "the Day of the Lord".
So either "the DOTL" has already started (with the beginning of birth PANGS, namely the first ONE that kicks those off); OR
"the beginning of birth PANGS" have NOT STARTED YET, because the first ONE of those is what kicks off the DOTL time period (thus it would now already "be present"--however, it is not, yet).
I've already explained in past posts the number of parallels (in various passages, not merely "seal #1" corresponding with the FIRST "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"), so won't get into all that in this post. But just consider that Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) uses the SAME WORD that Jesus used, only (Paul uses it) in the SINGULAR because he is referencing its STARTING POINT (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor), and acknowledges that the Thessalonians "know perfectly" the manner of its ARRIVAL (again, 1Th5:2-3 says Paul acknowledges this about them and what they "know perfectly"). I propose that they "know perfectly" because Jesus had previously talked about that very thing--and Paul / the Apostles had conveyed this--the Thessalonians hadn't come up with this out of the blue.
In 2Th2, Paul is telling them 1) not to be convinced by anyone trying to persuade them that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (it wasn't [tho 2Th1:4 makes it a REASONABLE THING for them to have been persuaded to *believe* was true], and Paul tells them WHY!); and 2) what conditions (for lack of a better word, atm) will be in play when it IS [/will] "BE PRESENT" ('the man of sin' will also have ARRIVED--and he does not ARRIVE on the scene at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, see
. I'm fairly certain you know this.)
He said the DOTL ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor.
That is a STARTING point... which KICKS OFF the time-period known as "the Day of the Lord".
So either "the DOTL" has already started (with the beginning of birth PANGS, namely the first ONE that kicks those off); OR
"the beginning of birth PANGS" have NOT STARTED YET, because the first ONE of those is what kicks off the DOTL time period (thus it would now already "be present"--however, it is not, yet).
I've already explained in past posts the number of parallels (in various passages, not merely "seal #1" corresponding with the FIRST "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"), so won't get into all that in this post. But just consider that Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) uses the SAME WORD that Jesus used, only (Paul uses it) in the SINGULAR because he is referencing its STARTING POINT (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor), and acknowledges that the Thessalonians "know perfectly" the manner of its ARRIVAL (again, 1Th5:2-3 says Paul acknowledges this about them and what they "know perfectly"). I propose that they "know perfectly" because Jesus had previously talked about that very thing--and Paul / the Apostles had conveyed this--the Thessalonians hadn't come up with this out of the blue.
In 2Th2, Paul is telling them 1) not to be convinced by anyone trying to persuade them that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (it wasn't [tho 2Th1:4 makes it a REASONABLE THING for them to have been persuaded to *believe* was true], and Paul tells them WHY!); and 2) what conditions (for lack of a better word, atm) will be in play when it IS [/will] "BE PRESENT" ('the man of sin' will also have ARRIVED--and he does not ARRIVE on the scene at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, see
. I'm fairly certain you know this.)
Both of these sentences cannot be true, because of what Paul said in 1Th5:2-3.
He said the DOTL ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor.
That is a STARTING point... which KICKS OFF the time-period known as "the Day of the Lord".
So either "the DOTL" has already started (with the beginning of birth PANGS, namely the first ONE that kicks those off); OR
"the beginning of birth PANGS" have NOT STARTED YET, because the first ONE of those is what kicks off the DOTL time period (thus it would now already "be present"--however, it is not, yet).
I've already explained in past posts the number of parallels (in various passages, not merely "seal #1" corresponding with the FIRST "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"), so won't get into all that in this post. But just consider that Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) uses the SAME WORD that Jesus used, only (Paul uses it) in the SINGULAR because he is referencing its STARTING POINT (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor), and acknowledges that the Thessalonians "know perfectly" the manner of its ARRIVAL (again, 1Th5:2-3 says Paul acknowledges this about them and what they "know perfectly"). I propose that they "know perfectly" because Jesus had previously talked about that very thing--and Paul / the Apostles had conveyed this--the Thessalonians hadn't come up with this out of the blue.
In 2Th2, Paul is telling them 1) not to be convinced by anyone trying to persuade them that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (it wasn't [tho 2Th1:4 makes it a REASONABLE THING for them to have been persuaded to *believe* was true], and Paul tells them WHY!); and 2) what conditions (for lack of a better word, atm) will be in play when it IS [/will] "BE PRESENT" ('the man of sin' will also have ARRIVED--and he does not ARRIVE on the scene at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, see . I'm fairly certain you know this.)
He said the DOTL ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor.
That is a STARTING point... which KICKS OFF the time-period known as "the Day of the Lord".
So either "the DOTL" has already started (with the beginning of birth PANGS, namely the first ONE that kicks those off); OR
"the beginning of birth PANGS" have NOT STARTED YET, because the first ONE of those is what kicks off the DOTL time period (thus it would now already "be present"--however, it is not, yet).
I've already explained in past posts the number of parallels (in various passages, not merely "seal #1" corresponding with the FIRST "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"), so won't get into all that in this post. But just consider that Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) uses the SAME WORD that Jesus used, only (Paul uses it) in the SINGULAR because he is referencing its STARTING POINT (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child / in labor), and acknowledges that the Thessalonians "know perfectly" the manner of its ARRIVAL (again, 1Th5:2-3 says Paul acknowledges this about them and what they "know perfectly"). I propose that they "know perfectly" because Jesus had previously talked about that very thing--and Paul / the Apostles had conveyed this--the Thessalonians hadn't come up with this out of the blue.
In 2Th2, Paul is telling them 1) not to be convinced by anyone trying to persuade them that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (it wasn't [tho 2Th1:4 makes it a REASONABLE THING for them to have been persuaded to *believe* was true], and Paul tells them WHY!); and 2) what conditions (for lack of a better word, atm) will be in play when it IS [/will] "BE PRESENT" ('the man of sin' will also have ARRIVED--and he does not ARRIVE on the scene at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, see
. I'm fairly certain you know this.)
You have a very good inventive imagination.
I did not say there was a 'gap' - I said 'span of time'.
Yes - scripture is straight-forward; however, it does not say:
It says:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Matthew 24:29)
After some in-depth study, I believe you should find that the highlighted description above is referring to the Trumpet Events at the time of the Two Witnesses - a period of no less than 3.5 years.
It is not the return of Christ that marks the end of the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses "showing up on the scene" that mark the end of the Great Tribulation.
Study it!
For what it is worth - I do not consider myself to be a dispensationalist. Nor am I 'pre-trib'.
Yes - scripture is straight-forward; however, it does not say:
It says:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Matthew 24:29)
After some in-depth study, I believe you should find that the highlighted description above is referring to the Trumpet Events at the time of the Two Witnesses - a period of no less than 3.5 years.
It is not the return of Christ that marks the end of the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses "showing up on the scene" that mark the end of the Great Tribulation.
Study it!
For what it is worth - I do not consider myself to be a dispensationalist. Nor am I 'pre-trib'.
Which part of my post is it that you have issue with?
--the part where I'm pointing out how Paul refers to the SAME "BP" issue that Jesus Himself referred to? (ITh5:2-3 & Matt24:4/Mk13:5);
--or, the part where Paul, in 2Th2, is telling them the "WHY" of why they should not be convinced by those endeavoring to persuade them that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative; G1764 - https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm (PERFECT TENSE 6x of 7x --listed to right at link)]"
(...and then proceeds to provide the SEQUENCE ISSUE of the "WHY," which is identical to the parallel passages I've pointed out in other threads, including the SAME SEQUENCE as 1Th4 thru 5, and Rev5:9 's "US" before Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, etc] by opening the FIRST SEAL, etc etc... [more...])
--or, other (from my post, that you find "imaginative" )...?
____________
2Th2:3 - "that day [from VERSE 2 , not from VERSE 1] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* AND the man of sin BE REVEALED..."
(note: he is not "revealed" at the END of the trib/at Christ's RETURN to the earth, but well -BEFORE that point in time! I do believe you are aware of this fact, right? The man of sin ARRIVES and "the DOTL" IS PRESENT at that point... not well-AFTER that point, see. )
--the part where I'm pointing out how Paul refers to the SAME "BP" issue that Jesus Himself referred to? (ITh5:2-3 & Matt24:4/Mk13:5);
--or, the part where Paul, in 2Th2, is telling them the "WHY" of why they should not be convinced by those endeavoring to persuade them that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative; G1764 - https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm (PERFECT TENSE 6x of 7x --listed to right at link)]"
(...and then proceeds to provide the SEQUENCE ISSUE of the "WHY," which is identical to the parallel passages I've pointed out in other threads, including the SAME SEQUENCE as 1Th4 thru 5, and Rev5:9 's "US" before Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, etc] by opening the FIRST SEAL, etc etc... [more...])
--or, other (from my post, that you find "imaginative"
)...?____________
2Th2:3 - "that day [from VERSE 2 , not from VERSE 1] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* AND the man of sin BE REVEALED..."
(note: he is not "revealed" at the END of the trib/at Christ's RETURN to the earth, but well -BEFORE that point in time!
I do believe you are aware of this fact, right? The man of sin ARRIVES and "the DOTL" IS PRESENT at that point... not well-AFTER that point, see. )
You make a very good point here...
I would have to study it a bit deeper, but - I am thinking that the word 'should' in Revelation 13:15 carries the meaning of "intended", much like the word 'decree' that you used in the post [partially] quoted above - meaning, that the intent was to kill all - but, with no guarantee that "they all are/were"...
I would have to study it a bit deeper, but - I am thinking that the word 'should' in Revelation 13:15 carries the meaning of "intended", much like the word 'decree' that you used in the post [partially] quoted above - meaning, that the intent was to kill all - but, with no guarantee that "they all are/were"...
We have been in the millennium since 70 AD. Christ has established His kingdom on earth and in heaven. When a believer physically dies today, they are immediately resurrected to heaven as full spiritual beings. KJV1611 is correct, we don't die because we are immediately alive in heaven when our body dies. We step out of this tent and transition out of this physical realm and step into the spiritual realm, body and all. Christ restored our connection to God so that we don't have to go to Hades and wait (sleep) as the OT saints did.
They were in their last days as a nation under the LAW. The prophecies concerning the destruction of heaven and earth in the prophets, 2 Peter 3 and Revelation are written in an apocalyptic style. Apocalyptic literature is similar to poetry and is thus not strictly literal. Whenever a nation is conquered and destroyed by a foreign army, the Bible frequently portrays this tragic event in the language of the destruction of heaven and earth. The fall of Babylon, Israel, Egypt and Edom in the sixth century B.C. are each depicted together with the destruction of heaven in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Just as the sky was not literally and physically destroyed at the fall of these great nations in the sixth century B.C., the sky was also not physically destroyed during Israel’s first century war with Rome.
Although the prophecies concerning the destruction of heaven and earth are apocalyptic in style and thus not strictly literal, there is a literal core of truth to these prophecies. Throughout the Bible, “earth” represents Israel. The destruction of Israel, the earth, began shortly thereafter when the Roman army arrived, crushed the Jewish revolt, burned the province and left Israel a charred wasteland. Therefore, the destruction of the earth representing Israel by fire predicted in 2 Peter 3 was fulfilled in Rome’s scorched earth policy during the Jewish War. Furthermore, at the final supernatural and miraculous appearance of Christ at the death of the beast, a famous catastrophe hurled fire into the sky and upon the earth; darkened the sun, moon and stars; and killed untold numbers. In Roman History 60.23.5, Cassius Dio says that those that witnessed the event believed that all of heaven and earth had been destroyed:“[T]hose close at hand, believed that the whole world was being turned upside down, that the sun was disappearing into the earth and that the earth was being lifted to the sky.”
This was how they talked. You all are badly misunderstanding them.
Although the prophecies concerning the destruction of heaven and earth are apocalyptic in style and thus not strictly literal, there is a literal core of truth to these prophecies. Throughout the Bible, “earth” represents Israel. The destruction of Israel, the earth, began shortly thereafter when the Roman army arrived, crushed the Jewish revolt, burned the province and left Israel a charred wasteland. Therefore, the destruction of the earth representing Israel by fire predicted in 2 Peter 3 was fulfilled in Rome’s scorched earth policy during the Jewish War. Furthermore, at the final supernatural and miraculous appearance of Christ at the death of the beast, a famous catastrophe hurled fire into the sky and upon the earth; darkened the sun, moon and stars; and killed untold numbers. In Roman History 60.23.5, Cassius Dio says that those that witnessed the event believed that all of heaven and earth had been destroyed:“[T]hose close at hand, believed that the whole world was being turned upside down, that the sun was disappearing into the earth and that the earth was being lifted to the sky.”
This was how they talked. You all are badly misunderstanding them.
Gary,
please try to read all of this as I have hope you can understand it. Others are too blind to ever get it:
What the Destruction of Heaven and Earth REALLY means:
If a nation is conquered and destroyed by a foreign army, the Bible frequently portrays this tragic event as the destruction of heaven and earth. There are several examples of this in Biblical history. In the sixth century B.C. several kingdoms were conquered and destroyed by foreign nations and in each case the Bible expresses this conquest as the destruction of heaven and earth.
The first example is found in Jeremiah 4:23-26. Here the destruction and conquest of Israel by the Babylonians in the sixth century B.C. is presented as the destruction of heaven and earth itself:
The destruction of heaven and earth is also depicted in Ezekiel 32. Here the prophet addresses Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, with a warning concerning Egypt’s imminent defeat and subjugation to Babylon which also came to pass in the sixth century B.C. Concerning the military conquest of Egypt by Babylon, Ezekiel 32:7-9 states:
The destruction of heaven and earth is also predicted at the destruction of Edom in Isaiah 34:4-5. This prophecy was also fulfilled around the time of the Babylonian conquest of Judah in the sixth century B.C:
It should also be noted that there is covenantal significance to each incidence in which heaven and earth were destroyed throughout Biblical history and Biblical prophecy but I won't get into that here.
please try to read all of this as I have hope you can understand it. Others are too blind to ever get it:
What the Destruction of Heaven and Earth REALLY means:
If a nation is conquered and destroyed by a foreign army, the Bible frequently portrays this tragic event as the destruction of heaven and earth. There are several examples of this in Biblical history. In the sixth century B.C. several kingdoms were conquered and destroyed by foreign nations and in each case the Bible expresses this conquest as the destruction of heaven and earth.
The first example is found in Jeremiah 4:23-26. Here the destruction and conquest of Israel by the Babylonians in the sixth century B.C. is presented as the destruction of heaven and earth itself:
I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. . . . I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away. I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert; all its towns lay in ruins . . .
In these verses, the destruction of Judah at the hands of the Babylonian army is painted in the image of the destruction of heaven and earth. Notice in v. 23, the earth, representing Israel, is dark, formless and void as it was in Genesis 1:2. This day of darkness for Israel is painted in such a way as to imply that heaven itself had also been destroyed since all the lights of the heavens are said to be gone in v. 23. Furthermore, there are no living things to be seen mirroring the desolate state of the earth prior to its creation in Genesis 1. In Jeremiah 4:23-26, the prophet pictures the destruction of the kingdom of Judah at the hands of the Babylonian army in the sixth century B.C. as the destruction of heaven and earth.The destruction of heaven and earth is also depicted in Ezekiel 32. Here the prophet addresses Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, with a warning concerning Egypt’s imminent defeat and subjugation to Babylon which also came to pass in the sixth century B.C. Concerning the military conquest of Egypt by Babylon, Ezekiel 32:7-9 states:
When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will trouble the hearts of many peoples when I bring about your destruction among the nations, among lands you have not known.
Here the destruction of the heavens portrayed by the darkening of the heavenly lights occurs simultaneously with the destruction of Egypt by the Babylonians in the sixth century B.C. Similar imagery is present in Isaiah 13:9-13 concerning the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.:See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. . . . Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
Hebrews 12:26 says, “At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, ‘Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.’ The words ‘once more’ indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.” The "once more" implies it has happened before and will again!! Hebrews 12:26 indicates that what has been shaken will be removed. Thus the fact that heaven and earth are shaken in Isaiah 13:13 implies that heaven and earth were removed or destroyed when Isaiah 13:9-13 was fulfilled at the fall of Babylon in the sixth century B.C. The destruction of heaven and earth is also predicted at the destruction of Edom in Isaiah 34:4-5. This prophecy was also fulfilled around the time of the Babylonian conquest of Judah in the sixth century B.C:
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed.
Similar imagery is found in Revelation 6:12-14 concerning the destruction of heaven and earth at the time of the end of Israel in 70 AD. In Revelation 6:12-13, John foresees the shaking of heaven and earth also seen at the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C. according to Isaiah 13:13. In Revelation 6:14 the sky recedes like a scroll and the stars of heaven fall to the earth as it had in Isaiah 34:4 at the destruction of Edom in the sixth century B.C. As shown above, the destruction of heaven is linked to the destruction and conquest of a nation. The next nation to fall was Israel in 70 AD and that is what all of this was about. Rest assured, the planet is not going to be utterly destroyed.It should also be noted that there is covenantal significance to each incidence in which heaven and earth were destroyed throughout Biblical history and Biblical prophecy but I won't get into that here.
Again, Revelation is not written in chronological order, and your interpretation violates the Chiasm of the book. Do you know how Jesus is going to "reign" over the wicked and "rule over the nations with a rod of iron"? Let's read about it in Psalms 2:
At the Second Coming, Jesus collects the saints, while the wicked drop dead all over the Earth, and we go away to reign for a thousand years in heavenly New Jerusalem, while judging the wicked. "After the thousand years were finished" New Jerusalem is transported to Earth, and the "rest of the dead" - the wicked - are raised to stand and receive their final fate. Psalms 2 is clear there is no "thousand year reign over the wicked on Earth" - it is Jesuit Futurist nonsense.
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.
2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
At the Second Coming, Jesus collects the saints, while the wicked drop dead all over the Earth, and we go away to reign for a thousand years in heavenly New Jerusalem, while judging the wicked. "After the thousand years were finished" New Jerusalem is transported to Earth, and the "rest of the dead" - the wicked - are raised to stand and receive their final fate. Psalms 2 is clear there is no "thousand year reign over the wicked on Earth" - it is Jesuit Futurist nonsense.
You haven't responded to the truth presented, you run with Jr High School Glee
Is there a resurrection of the dead in Christ seen in 1 Thess 4:14-17. 100% Yes!
Does the Lord Jesus Christ Teach This Resurrection Takes Place On (The Last Day)
100% Yes
Is there a resurrection of the dead in Christ seen in 1 Thess 4:14-17. 100% Yes!
Does the Lord Jesus Christ Teach This Resurrection Takes Place On (The Last Day)
100% Yes
Your one verse removes 10 verses.
We never have to see the dead in Christ precede the living as we can now remove rev 14.
And when jesus ascended in acts we can just insert white horses destroyed planet and everyone on the planet with a mark on their heads.
I already replaced "Before the flood" with "after the flood" in mat 24.
What a relief.....we can be excused from watching and being ready.
I already feel better changing all the gatherings into one all in one event.
Heck it may be happening now.
If not you can show me how to rearrange other verses.
Rev 19 he comes with the saints.
The parable of the wedding guests has several gatherings.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the main harvest
The 144k are firstfruits of the jewish harvest
The dialogue at the last supper is the exact dialogue of the jewish betrothal as is the setting.
I have never heard a postrib...EVER... unpack the harvest dimension or the groom/bride dynamic.
They will contend with those components in reframing them,but never honestly approach them.
The apex of the next major event is the gathering of the bride.
Postribs have disenfranchised themselves.
Seems impossible....but .... they tirelessly pursue it.
The next major event that all of heaven is centered in, is COMPLETELY IGNORED.
The first miracle is forever canonized as "the first miracle".....at a wedding with covenant wine,from the hand of Jesus...to the jews. The last is the first. Rev 19 the bride is now the wife. Wedding consumation in heaven. It is without a doubt a pretrib gathering with the jews gathered in rev 14( the very fact that the 144k are FIRSTFRUITS tells us that the main harvest follows....and the Fact it is not wheat or barley ,but grapes,tells us it is the jews.
Jesus told us he was preparing a place in heaven for his bride.
Rev 19 has that bride in heaven,ready to ride down to battle,and she has become the wife.
When I saw the bride/groom dynamic over 10 years ago I began to see things fit together.
That is the heart of God. That is the next apex....the gathering of the bride.
When you see rev 14 ,you are seeing the first ones invited that refused (parable of the wedding guests) gathered through much tribulation.
You can not understand what is going on by clicheing single dynamics and phrases into a narrative you happen to be biased in.
Leave out the next apex and you will forever chase your tail.
Purpose.
God is a God of purpose
The parable of the wedding guests has several gatherings.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the main harvest
The 144k are firstfruits of the jewish harvest
The dialogue at the last supper is the exact dialogue of the jewish betrothal as is the setting.
I have never heard a postrib...EVER... unpack the harvest dimension or the groom/bride dynamic.
They will contend with those components in reframing them,but never honestly approach them.
The apex of the next major event is the gathering of the bride.
Postribs have disenfranchised themselves.
Seems impossible....but .... they tirelessly pursue it.
The next major event that all of heaven is centered in, is COMPLETELY IGNORED.
The first miracle is forever canonized as "the first miracle".....at a wedding with covenant wine,from the hand of Jesus...to the jews. The last is the first. Rev 19 the bride is now the wife. Wedding consumation in heaven. It is without a doubt a pretrib gathering with the jews gathered in rev 14( the very fact that the 144k are FIRSTFRUITS tells us that the main harvest follows....and the Fact it is not wheat or barley ,but grapes,tells us it is the jews.
Jesus told us he was preparing a place in heaven for his bride.
Rev 19 has that bride in heaven,ready to ride down to battle,and she has become the wife.
When I saw the bride/groom dynamic over 10 years ago I began to see things fit together.
That is the heart of God. That is the next apex....the gathering of the bride.
When you see rev 14 ,you are seeing the first ones invited that refused (parable of the wedding guests) gathered through much tribulation.
You can not understand what is going on by clicheing single dynamics and phrases into a narrative you happen to be biased in.
Leave out the next apex and you will forever chase your tail.
Purpose.
God is a God of purpose