Do you still sin?

[Lafftur]

God did NOT save us so we can run around and keep sinning and keep calling ourselves sinners.....we're suppose to STOP sinning and START living godly lives - it's a process of renewing the mind and being transformed which can only be done by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God - line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.

It's frustrating for a believer that loves God to walk in their flesh and fall into sin. We need to learn how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

God as our wonderful Father and Jesus Christ our Savior, Lord and King completely UNDERSTAND our dilemma and have already provided a solution....The Promise of the Father - to empower us with His Holy Spirit to indwell us and be with us on the Earth - to teach us, comfort us, guide us, instruct us, correct us, and empower us to witness to the saving grace of Jesus Christ - His Blood and Body as the Lamb of God that takes our sin away and gives us the Righteousness of God IN CHRIST (NOT in ourselves).

We got to grow up and start eating the MEAT of the Word, not just the milk. We got to deny ourself (flesh), take up our cross and follow Jesus. We're carrying a "cross".....darn right we're going to be in pain and suffer a lot - no need to be surprised when trials, tribulation and persecution comes.

The mistake we make is when we resist, grieve, quench or neglect the Gift of the Holy Spirit. We're suppose to stir up the gift with singing songs of praise and worship from a thankful heart to God, praying, reading our Bible, studying and meditating on the scriptures, fellowshipping with God and each other, encouraging each other, etc....

Going around "labeling" judging or condemning each other is just the works of the flesh, it's time to grow up. We have been born again for greater works that can ONLY be done in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Dear Heavenly Father,

Help us to receive by faith the Gift of Your Holy Spirit for us. Empower us to live godly lives pleasing to You, in the Name of Jesus Christ, our Lord Savior and King, amen.

 

[DorothyMae]

Oh DorothyMae, the anointing of the Holy Spirit that dwells within EVERY believer teaches them. We don't have to run to commentaries or man-made doctrines to understand scripture. Every word a pastor/preacher/priest/rabbi/bible teacher/anyone speaks is not to be believed unless the Holy Spirit in us bears witness that it is TRUE.

Well, I have applied the above measure to what you write and I find that the Holy Spirit within me as well as a pretty deep knowledge of the scriptures tells me that your teaching at some points is way off. You give us a ruler by which to measure what others say and we can, of course, apply that ruler to what you say. Surely you cannot object to that.

And by the way, I do not own a commentary not do I read the notes of a Bible as I usually use the app on my Mobile phone.

The Holy Spirit teaches ALL of us the TRUTH of God's Word, if we have an ear to hear......which all true born again believers do because we heard and believed the GOSPEL unto Salvation IN CHRIST ALONE. We knew it was TRUE even though the world says it's a lie and we're crazy Christians.

1 John 2:27 (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

He does and He tells me that what you say in the above statment is simply not true. If it were true, then there would NEVER be any disagreement between believers on any point. Even the fact that the apostles did not agree shows that your assumption is not true. To be clear, you assume, judging by the above statments of yours, that the HS teaches ALl of the truth because all believers have an ear to hear the truth because they believed the gospel until salvation. This assumption on your part assumes that we do not think nor have free will as to what we accept as truth. You assume that no one ever does not believe what the HS says to them. It is fairly dangerous as it teaches believers that whatever they think about matters of God and man in these things is the HS and is right. It teaches people to not be discerning about their own thoughts.

I work in science and when I hear a theory I test it in real life. That is how I have come to know the truth and the truth has set me free. I look around and see Christians disagreeing on important points, both claiming the HS is teaching them, and I know that what you say is not true. The testimony of the apostles who did not always agree shows me scripturally that what your write above is not true. SOunds very nice but it just is not so. The fact that you and I disagree is another proof that your position on this is not true.

The word "VICTIM" seems to be reoccurring in your posts.....I hope you're okay and all is well with you! You are loved dearly by God and there is NO HURT or WRONG done to us that GOD cannot HEAL, if we let him.

I see more clearly than some the harm that sin does to others. I, myself, am not currently suffering from the sin of anyone. It is just that I care about the other people on the planet who do suffer from the sin of others and care for them.

Christians too often take it very lightly that they sin with no thought at all about who suffers as a result. They just want it to be clear that they are forgiven and so essentially, it does not matter. The only thing that matters, judging from their writing about sin, is that they are forgiven the penalty of their sin, not that someone else's life is potentially devastated by their sin. That is unimportant. WHen I use the word "victim" it brings it home that someone else suffers as a result of our sin.

The first step is to give up all rights to judging and/or condemning others.

. Jesus said, "judge rightly" so this is another point where your thinking is not correct as far as God is concerned.

It's okay for you and I to not agree, no harm done. We can still have love in our hearts for each other. God bless you, DorothyMae.

Yes, I agree very strongly with this and see that you are a kind person. Your understanding is off in places and matches neither real life nor the scriptures, both of which are more complicated than you describe.

You know, all we have on this medium is talking to one another. Iron sharpens iron. I have learned a lot by being challenged by others and by reading what they think. But when I find someone who agrees with my position, not unusual, the conversation is very short. If two people think alike on every point, one of them is not needed.

 

[DorothyMae]

There is a passage that says in the Bible, let he who steals, steal no more. This is pretty clear and easy to measure whether we are complying or not. Each of us has different sins we did before we met Christ. We have different sins we do now as well. But it can be true that we sin less as we become more sensitive to the HS and as we draw closer to God. The bar is raised if we want to walk closer to Him. Without holiness shall no man see God.

It is hard to find anyone who tells you the reward for struggling against sin. Some advocate do not even struggle. But if a man does not mourn for real righteousness in the deeds done, he shall not have a close walk with Him and the mourning will not be comforted by choices that please God. We must desire holiness and He gives grace to be such. It is not a passive event nor merely an "ought."

Those who want to know and understand God will find that the only path is righteousness. THe righteousness in Christ at first although at that point no one understands God, and then following actually obeying the living God. The reward of this is learning to know His ways. It is the pearl of great price which costs a man everything whether he be rich or poor.

When you hear anyone say that they or worse, we, do not understand God, please know that the speaker does not understand God. There are those who do understand God and that way is holiness that will never be reached if we have a casual attitude towards sin as seen in "we all sin" or "future sins are forgiven already" or any other expression whereby no one is induced to weep over their deeds that so damage others.

So substitute the names of sins you do for the word "sin" and you will find you see it more clearly. Do you stab others with your words (or worse your hand)? Then call it abusing others when angry. It is easier to say, "yes I sin each day" than "yes, I get angry and stab others with my tongue each day." That does not sound at all acceptable. Do you tend to ignore the HS? It is easier to say, "yes I sin each day" than "yes, I ignore the Holy SPirit each day." Do you choose to find subjects for your eyes to look at that stir up wrong desires? It is easier to say "yes I sin every day" than "yes, I search for subjects to look at so wrong desires in my body are stirred up." The former statments are easy to make with no shame in a Bible study or confession time. The latter ones are at the very least embarassing and might just make us see our sin as God does. He does not take our sin casually at all and is not primarily interested in that we receive forgiveness. He cares about the victim of our sin as much as He cares for us.

 

[DorothyMae]

DorothyMae - it is wonderful to discuss this topic with you! I'm enjoying the challenging conversation! You bring up excellent points.

I am very glad. You are a kind person, I see. That is very refreshing.

I understand why you post as you do as I see what is so commonly taught in many churches today. You are not alone. It is this, we are [insert complimentary adjective describing behaviour] because of Jesus. IT is so rare to hear anyone encourage believers to examine their hearts and real deeds and I am very sorry. My brethren are missing out on really knowing God because they are told they already by faith are [insert complimentary adjective describing behaviour.] IF they would actually be what they are told they are by faith concerning their deeds, life would be so different.

That is why I insert real words instead of "sin" which Christians are taught not to take too seriously lest they become depressed at their behaviour. If the church saw their own sinful choices as God does, they would not be so glib about them and God would open up understanding to them.

That, actually, is my motivation. I, myself, am not suffering. I do see the suffering of others sometimes to include those who suffer because they are simply too proud to admit they were wrong. (Not thinking of anyone on this site whose suffering I have no way of seeing.) I know a dear brother who is suffering through deep disappointment and borderline depression whose whole problem exists because he expected God to do something God did not do. He is becoming bitter bit by bit and I am praying and sorry for his situation. If he would humble himself and be willing to go to God to learn where he was mistaken, he would not be suffering and he would understand God. But pride is not letting him do this and I am sorry for him. This is an example. IF he sought the Lord to learn his mistake instead of claiming by faith something he is not doing and is not being, he would be whole again.

 

[Lafftur]

Well, DorothyMae......I think you are a kind person, too - you have a heart for the victims of sin that are hurting. Believers will have days of trouble, trials, tribulation and persecution.....it's for our good. God has a plan.

We definitely disagree on some things but, God is not finished with either of us yet! The Grande Finale' will be spectacular!

It does intrigue me how God hides Himself in plain sight.......human reasoning is blind and deaf.

I use to read the Bible and try to understand in my own human reasoning but, soon learned human reasoning cannot know God because God's Ways are so much higher than ours..............it's best to just let His Holy Spirit teach us the scriptures. He's renewing our minds daily, if we let Him. I pray we let Him.

Complete dependency on God - choosing to just sit at His Feet and listen......so refreshing and healing and strengthening.......then, we can get up and do what He said to do IN HIS STRENGTH, not ours.

What your friend is going through is quit normal - we all go through it......every time the flesh doesn't get what it wants, it has to throw a fit which can be anger, pity party or in stubborn pride try to get it itself- without God.

It's just the flesh getting us into trouble, IF we let it. We can say NO and choose to be led by the Spirit.

 

[DorothyMae]

Well, DorothyMae......I think you are a kind person, too - you have a heart for the victims of sin that are hurting. Believers will have days of trouble, trials, tribulation and persecution.....it's for our good. God has a plan.

We definitely disagree on some things but, God is not finished with either of us yet! The Grande Finale' will be spectacular!

It does intrigue me how God hides Himself in plain sight.......human reasoning is blind and deaf.

I use to read the Bible and try to understand in my own human reasoning but, soon learned human reasoning cannot know God because God's Ways are so much higher than ours..............it's best to just let His Holy Spirit teach us the scriptures. He's renewing our minds daily, if we let Him. I pray we let Him.

Complete dependency on God - choosing to just sit at His Feet and listen......so refreshing and healing and strengthening.......then, we can get up and do what He said to do IN HIS STRENGTH, not ours.

What your friend is going through is quit normal - we all go through it......every time the flesh doesn't get what it wants, it has to throw a fit which can be anger, pity party or in stubborn pride try to get it itself- without God.

It's just the flesh getting us into trouble, IF we let it. We can say NO and choose to be led by the Spirit.

Looking forward to good discussion in the future with you!!

 

[Sarahbm]

You both are very skilled at speaking the word though, I've learned alot reading the convo, I'm sort of newish to the bible.

 

[Rosemaryx]

You both are very skilled at speaking the word though, I've learned alot reading the convo, I'm sort of newish to the bible.

I agree...
It is nice to see our sisters in Christ come together through Him , and walking in a Godly manner...
...xox...

 

[ToastAndTea]

This topic makes me think of the Pharisee in Luke 18. I would rather be the tax collector, aware of my state of sinfulness and open to receive the grace of God, than the man who thought he had it all, from my perspective. That's not to say we should not be aware of who we are in Christ. We are children of God, sons and daughters saved from the penalty of sin by the one who loves us. But we are not yet set free from the presence of sin. One day, we will be.

 

[Reformyourself]

This topic makes me think of the Pharisee in Luke 18. I would rather be the tax collector, aware of my state of sinfulness and open to receive the grace of God, than the man who thought he had it all, from my perspective. That's not to say we should not be aware of who we are in Christ. We are children of God, sons and daughters saved from the penalty of sin by the one who loves us. But we are not yet set free from the presence of sin. One day, we will be.

Amen ‘therefore be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect’ Matt. 5:48

 

[Reformyourself]

Amen ‘therefore be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect’ Matt. 5:48

1 thess. 5:23
But The God of peace shall make all of you perfectly holy and shall keep your whole spirit, soul and body without fault for the arrival of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah. 🙏

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Truly, born again believers are NOT sinners anymore.

That is going to far, We will always be sinners, Jesus said to pharisees, if you were blind then you would see, but since you claim you can see, you are blind. It means we have acknowledge that we are sinners and see a need for Jesus. Will born again believers sin, of course, according to the bible old and new testament, if we say we are not sinners we are lying and moreover, you would be saying that God himself is lying. He said we are not righteous not one of us. There is no foundation in scripture to say we are not sinners. Personally i believe we are all sinners, because just one evil thought is sin to God. Only in heaven, the presence of sin will be no more, until death we will always sin.

 

[Lafftur]

That is going to far, We will always be sinners, Jesus said to pharisees, if you were blind then you would see, but since you claim you can see, you are blind. It means we have acknowledge that we are sinners and see a need for Jesus. Will born again believers sin, of course, according to the bible old and new testament, if we say we are not sinners we are lying and moreover, you would be saying that God himself is lying. He said we are not righteous not one of us. There is no foundation in scripture to say we are not sinners. Personally i believe we are all sinners, because just one evil thought is sin to God. Only in heaven, the presence of sin will be no more, until death we will always sin.

I understand why you believe you're still a "sinner." I use to believe that too because I knew I was saved but found myself still sinning and it bothered me greatly - it was such a defeated feeling but, I've learned differently now.

It hurts God's heart when we call ourselves "sinners" after receiving all that Jesus did to save us with His Blood and Body. God doesn't call us "sinners." God calls us His children - Jesus Christ is the Firstborn among many brethren.

A "sinner" has no shepherd - they are captive to the god of this world - the kingdom of darkness -they are born in Adam with a sinful nature - their sin is unto Death - they enjoy sinning.

A "child of God" has a Good Shepherd (Jesus Christ) - they belong to God and are no longer held captive to the god of this world - they are children of the Kingdom of Light - they are born again IN CHRIST with a spiritual nature - their sin is NOT unto Death - they do NOT like sinning and are very grieved when they do sin.

1 John 5:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

As born again believers we have the incorruptible seed of Jesus Christ in us which gives us His spiritual nature our old sinful nature in Adam is gone. We're a new creation in Christ Jesus.

It's because our soul is not yet restored - this is why we are still sinning. Our soul consist of Mind, Will and Emotions. It's the Holy Spirit's Work to help us renew our minds by opening up the scriptures and feeding us the Word of God with understanding - this is a process - line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.

The more our minds are renewed by the Word and Spirit of God, our Will and Emotions begin to line up with the Father's Will more and more......we are growing and maturing IN CHRIST learning how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh which is sin.

This post is to encourage believers to know who we are IN CHRIST and not feel defeated over sin but, to rise above and just keep learning how to "walk."

We are God's Children, NOT His "sinners."

 

[CS1]

No, but I have been known to backslide......

All my sins have been dealt with and taken away from me by the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus. All my righteousness is filthy rags that I traded with Yeshua/Jesus for His Righteousness which is His Body - I am NOW the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Hallelujah!

I am sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit. Here's where the FUN begins.....

Every day is a choice to love God and follow Him..... it's very easy if I stay FILLED with the Holy Spirit, however, if I neglect the Gift of the Holy Spirit then my flesh gets stronger and I backslide.

Along comes the Accuser of the brethren - "You're NOT SAVED! You're still sinning!"

Be careful, the Accuser is a LIAR!

I need to stir up the Gift of the Holy Spirit daily and throughout the day by singing songs in my heart to God, reading, studying, meditating on Gods Word - the Bible, fellowshiping with other believers, praying, talking with God about everything...... so that I can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Sin is GONE, but my flesh has to be dealt with so, I take up my cross, deny myself (flesh) and follow Yeshua/Jesus.

Truly, born again believers are NOT sinners anymore.

Sinners are lost and condemned without a Shepherd (Yeshua/Jesus Christ) - they belong to and are blinded by the god of this world which is Satan.

There is NO CONDEMNATION for those that are in Christ Jesus - these are born again saved believers that get into trouble with their flesh because they haven't learned to stir up the Holy Spirit within them - they backslide and wander off and the Good Shepherd herds them back into the flock - they ALWAYS have a Shepherd!

I think what I get mostly from your post is, how important is your relationship with Jesus and is more than your superficial desires of the flesh? Are we committed to the relationship? I can tell you Jesus is. IF we draw near to HIM, HE will draw near to us. If we spend time with Him and deny the superficial desires of the flesh we will experience His presence. He will never leave us nor forsake us. Jesus said in John chapter 14 " I will not leave you comfortless". Obedience is an act of love but being obedient Because you LOVE HIM and do not want to hurt the relationship.

Too many, I think, focus the condition of their flesh, which I might add CANNOT BE SAVED. This is the battle. The spirit and your flesh. You cannot do anything to stop the desire of the flesh or temptation. Not if you will be tempted but When you are tempted.

1cor 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

This is part of sanctification YOU MUST Learn how to ENDURE! Jesus is trying to develop you into spiritual Maturity. Get all the knowledge of the word of God you want it will not help you overcome the flesh IF you do not apply what you know to your life.

You can live doing " the do's & don't" and still not know Jesus as Lord and Savior. Where is your heart at? Head knowledge does not move God. But the heart HE knows intimately. Where your heart is that is where your treasure is. Who has your heart? The flesh or Jesus?

 

[Nehemiah6]

As born again believers we have the incorruptible seed of Jesus Christ in us which gives us His spiritual nature our old sinful nature in Adam is gone. We're a new creation in Christ Jesus.

This is half true and half false. Yes, we are a new creation in Christ.

However this is false: "our old sinful nature in Adam is gone". God does not eradicate the sin nature ("the flesh"), which will only happen at the Resurrection/Rapture. But because He has given us His Holy Spirit SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU.

Here is one verse that clearly shows that the flesh is present in the believer:
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. (Gal 5:13)

This is stated more clearly in some other translations:

New International Version
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

New Living Translation
For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.

English Standard Version
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

New American Standard Bible
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

We need to be careful that we do not manufacture our own theology and lead others astray. The flesh must not (and should not) dominate the Christian. But it is still there and must be mortified or crucified.

 

[Lafftur]

I think what I get mostly from your post is, how important is your relationship with Jesus and is more than your superficial desires of the flesh? Are we committed to the relationship? I can tell you Jesus is. IF we draw near to HIM, HE will draw near to us. If we spend time with Him and deny the superficial desires of the flesh we will experience His presence. He will never leave us nor forsake us. Jesus said in John chapter 14 " I will not leave you comfortless". Obedience is an act of love but being obedient Because you LOVE HIM and do not want to hurt the relationship.

Too many, I think, focus the condition of their flesh, which I might add CANNOT BE SAVED. This is the battle. The spirit and your flesh. You cannot do anything to stop the desire of the flesh or temptation. Not if you will be tempted but When you are tempted.

1cor 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

This is part of sanctification YOU MUST Learn how to ENDURE! Jesus is trying to develop you into spiritual Maturity. Get all the knowledge of the word of God you want it will not help you overcome the flesh IF you do not apply what you know to your life.

You can live doing " the do's & don't" and still not know Jesus as Lord and Savior. Where is your heart at? Head knowledge does not move God. But the heart HE knows intimately. Where your heart is that is where your treasure is. Who has your heart? The flesh or Jesus?

Hello CS1,

I agree with you - God is intently looking at our hearts.

I've grown a bit since my OP - where I am now in my understanding is understood in my last post on this thread.

Enjoyed your post!

 

[Lafftur]

This is half true and half false. Yes, we are a new creation in Christ.

However this is false: "our old sinful nature in Adam is gone". God does not eradicate the sin nature ("the flesh"), which will only happen at the Resurrection/Rapture. But because He has given us His Holy Spirit SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU.

Here is one verse that clearly shows that the flesh is present in the believer:
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. (Gal 5:13)

This is stated more clearly in some other translations:

New International Version
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

New Living Translation
For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.

English Standard Version
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

New American Standard Bible
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

We need to be careful that we do not manufacture our own theology and lead others astray. The flesh must not (and should not) dominate the Christian. But it is still there and must be mortified or crucified.

Hi Nehemiah6,

Did you notice the word "freedom/liberty" in Galatians 5:13? We're free from that sinful nature in Adam - our spirit man is born again IN CHRIST. Sinful ways are in our minds but, sin no longer holds us captive, we have a choice now.

We just need to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in the process of renewing our mind which will result in the restoring of our soul. We'll be able to know the perfect Will of God, choose it and do it!

Thanks for your post!

 

[Fundamental]

How can one not sin in a world like this? For instance consumption. We all know that the way we live spoils our earth, yet it would amaze me a person doesn’t have guilty pleasures.

Isn’t sin doing something wrong while you know it’s wrong? What can we buy that has no wrong doing whatsoever? Lot of stuff we buy and use was built on extreme conditions. The batteries in our technology etc are made or extracted by poor people in extreme work conditions. Even slavery still exists this day and it would amaze me western people (such as I) have not bought any of these articles

 

[CS1]

How can one not sin in a world like this? For instance consumption. We all know that the way we live spoils our earth, yet it would amaze me a person doesn’t have guilty pleasures.

Isn’t sin doing something wrong while you know it’s wrong? What can we buy that has no wrong doing whatsoever? Lot of stuff we buy and use was built on extreme conditions. The batteries in our technology etc are made or extracted by poor people in extreme work conditions. Even slavery still exists this day and it would amaze me western people (such as I) have not bought any of these articles

You doing sin does not make it Sin unless the wrong you do is to GOD. God can carry less about how many batteries you buy, bt the moment you worship them you have sinned. many people today worship the earth and animals as Roman chapter 1 says. Not buying any of those articles does not guarantee you are saved?

 

[Fundamental]

You doing sin does not make it Sin unless the wrong you do is to GOD. God can carry less about how many batteries you buy, bt the moment you worship them you have sinned. many people today worship the earth and animals as Roman chapter 1 says. Not buying any of those articles does not guarantee you are saved?

So God doesn’t care people around me pretending to care about black lives while using batteries made on backs of black children? Just keep using them and let this insanity carrying on isn’t sin? To name just one on the top of my head