You’re embellishing Scripture again, but thanks for playing ~ to your own demise.
Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
- Thread starter GraceAndTruth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
John 10:25-27
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Thanks for your military service. Where were you stationed ? I was drafted in the 60's spent 15 months in Korea.
Who is Calvin?
How many did the father give the power to believe as a gift to His Son? .I am sure you are not attributing some power to the earthen bodies of death .
Jesus said of his own corrupted flesh; it profits for nothing. It was the work of the father's Holy Spirit not seen that that worked in the Son of man Jesus that did profit the first born Just as with his brothers and sitters us .Why would we reason above his revealed will?
Power = Creative Authority
Black = no power
Green = Life
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Why the murmurogma?
You must have a point to make other than those individuals did not believe in Jesus at that moment, hence why He stated they were not members of His flock ~ at that moment.
Not sure what paraphrase you are using?
It would seem by putting Israel together with Jacob having two different purposes can confuse the matter. Jacob (deceiver) a second born at birth is shown grabbing the heel of the first born Esau. It was changed to denote born again to represent the Son of God the first born new creature .
Today the bride of Christ are called by the father "Christian" a more befitting name for the bride made up of all nations .
Jacob denotes flesh and blood .While Israel denotes strengthened by God working in with man empowering him to resist the desires of the flesh.
All of Israel is not Israel, today is the same as saying all Christians are not Christians.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
This is contradictory to me.
God makes His Grace irresistible in Calvinism... they do not need any "knowledge of their state" in this dogma.
They are unable to respond, receive (total inability) therefore God has to make His grace irresistible.
I wonder if you know that?
E
EleventhHour
Guest
How does this support "world of the elect?"
Jesus had been speaking about the Pharisees and then speaks about those that are His sheep by contrast.
He did not state they could not believe but they refused after all He had shown them and done.
TULIP as a system is not found in scripture.
Yawnnnnn this does not prove your calvinogma, nor does it prove the ignorance of Calvin's false ideology.Thanks for your military service. Where were you stationed ? I was drafted in the 60's spent 15 months in Korea.
Who is Calvin?
How many did the father give the power to believe as a gift to His Son? .I am sure you are not attributing some power to the earthen bodies of death .
Jesus said of his own corrupted flesh; it profits for nothing. It was the work of the father's Holy Spirit not seen that that worked in the Son of man Jesus that did profit the first born Just as with his brothers and sitters us .Why would we reason above his revealed will?
Power = Creative Authority
Black = no power
Green = Life
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Why the murmurogma?
Salvation is open to all, creation and the invisible testifies, no one is without excuse and MEN MUST CHOSE.....
God did not make man A for heaven and man B thru Z for hell!
It sounds like you don't have a clue to how important Jacob is in God's purpose. You should study more about the sugnifficense of why God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel. All scriptures are important, and they will have to harmonize, if you are to understand the truths contained in God's inspired words. All of the nation of Israel is not christian, just those elect that Jacob/Israel represents.
I am almost sure that every time that you see the word "ISRAEL" mentioned in the scriptures, you interpret it as "the nation of Israel", when, in actuality, most of the time it refers to Jacob/Israel.
Rom 2:28-29, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;(nation of Israel) But he is a Jew, which one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, (Jacob/Israel), and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 9:6, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Rom 9:11, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth. verse 13, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:15-16, For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion, so then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
So in your theory God made mankind A thru Z to inherit heaven. Dan 4:35, If God doeth is will among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, then all mankind will be in heaven, Right?
God has given mankind the freedom of choosing out his changes as he lives here on earth, but man has no choice in his eternal destination. That is determined by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man. Show me the scripture where God says he will not usurp his authority over man's free will.
You cannot believe until you hear, and only his sheep (regenerated) hear his voice, with the understanding of what he is saying, because they cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks they are foolishness (1 Cor 2:14), until God quickens them and adds them to his sheepfold.
Someone has deceived you with a false doctrine that is not the doctrine of Jesus.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
I doubt you will see it but here it goes.................
1 Corinthians 2:14.
Read it very carefully and in context ...
The comparison here is not natural man with the spiritual man ...
the contrast is between human wisdom and divine revelation.
He is stating if you rely on human wisdom (philosophies) you cannot understand the divine revelation.
This is kinda ironic don't ya think .... given the topic of this thread.
I wonder if you know that the natural man is still spiritually dead, 1 Cor 2:14, and can not respond favorably to the things of the Spirit, during the process of God quickening him, Eph 2.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Like I said you cannot see what Paul is addressing .. he was well aware of the philosophies of his day, the problems of Gnosticism and the problems in the Corinthian assembly.
Your doubt was right, this is stretched further than I have ever seen it stretched in order to try and conform 1 Cor 2:14 to fit into the false doctrine that you have been taught.
It says what it says, plain and simple, you are going to have to reinforce your explanation of 1 Cor 2:14 with scriptures that will harmonize with your stretched out version of this scripture
Scripture proves scripture, and they all must harmonize before you will be able to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.
I refuse to believe that the Holy Spirit, within you, has revealed this to you as truth. I believe that you are a christian that has been quickened to the new spiritual life, but you are in need of some different teaching, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit, You seem to be someone that is truly interested in gleaning the truth of the scriptures. I pray that you can deny your own entelect, and let the Holy Spirit reveal some truths to you.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
I am indeed.
The Holy Spirit, Context (historical research as well) reasoning and sound teachers.
Helps to use all the tools.
Like I said. Its a statement of fact.
God doesn't "have to" do anything except what He Wills.
Sure seems like it.
You don't believe because you are not my sheep.
My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.
If they were the elect they would believe. They would hear the Lords voice and they would follow Him.
- Status