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Stopped listening 4 minutes in.
All he has said is that churches are popping up that don't have a choir or require formal dress because it's "seeker friendly" or "sinner friendly." as he puts it. Also, that by not having a choir or formal dress that they are not preaching the true Jesus.
What he said is not Biblical. Fancy clothes or a choir are by no means required. What he is preaching is legalism. Ironic this video is called Last Days Deception.
All he has said is that churches are popping up that don't have a choir or require formal dress because it's "seeker friendly" or "sinner friendly." as he puts it. Also, that by not having a choir or formal dress that they are not preaching the true Jesus.
What he said is not Biblical. Fancy clothes or a choir are by no means required. What he is preaching is legalism. Ironic this video is called Last Days Deception.
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I do not agree theologically in everything with David Wilkerson, but he is a man who had the anointing of the Spirit, and was used of God. I highly respect him and his legacy.
This message was not legalism. He is not saying a choir or casual clothes are wrong. He is concerned with lukewarmness and accomodating gospels that minimize repentance, and the need of the cross of Jesus.
This message was not legalism. He is not saying a choir or casual clothes are wrong. He is concerned with lukewarmness and accomodating gospels that minimize repentance, and the need of the cross of Jesus.
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For the sake of time and frustration of me trying to type a like minded message here is another sermon
I think needs to be heard.
It strikes me as odd that the views and replies to this thread are somewhat low yet in this forum many have entertained the thoughts of a professed Satanist and try to pour out the love and forgiveness of God to a person who knowingly and consciously rejects Christ.
These sermons cause me to examine myself am I alone in these matters?
I have a deep love for the saints and the church and a passion to fight against wolves in sheep's clothing.
Please give a listen to the message and less attention to the messager.
I think needs to be heard.
It strikes me as odd that the views and replies to this thread are somewhat low yet in this forum many have entertained the thoughts of a professed Satanist and try to pour out the love and forgiveness of God to a person who knowingly and consciously rejects Christ.
These sermons cause me to examine myself am I alone in these matters?
I have a deep love for the saints and the church and a passion to fight against wolves in sheep's clothing.
Please give a listen to the message and less attention to the messager.
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Has David Wilkerson given false prophesies about the end times? 
http://www.endtime-prophets.com/wilkerson.html
http://www.endtime-prophets.com/wilkerson.html
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I listened to the whole sermon, and I took his major premise to be a condemnation of church service structure that focuses on entertaining the congregation and doing whatever they can not to offend either the church membership or potential visitors - to the point that the gospel isn't preached, and repentance is not proclaimed.
I found it ironic that at one point he criticized "20 minute sermons" as tho they were too short to get a message of value across.. and how that these megachurches don't teach about Christ, yet his own sermon was under 30 minutes, and he didn't talk about Christ either, just about how awful the churches he was attacking are. lol?
I found it ironic that at one point he criticized "20 minute sermons" as tho they were too short to get a message of value across.. and how that these megachurches don't teach about Christ, yet his own sermon was under 30 minutes, and he didn't talk about Christ either, just about how awful the churches he was attacking are. lol?
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I would offer.
Its one of those "old age". . resurrected "new age". History repeats itself in that way because mankind does not, cannot change .At the end of every empire, nation or family its moral issues that cause the fall.
Entertaining the congregation with lying signs and wonders rather than prophecy of what those wonders are called "sign gifts" (side shows) . Rather than believing prophecy they seek after a sign of personal experience, making the self edifying experience the new gospel .
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 King James Version (KJV)And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Confirming unbelief. . no faith of Christ working in them . Not little none.
We know we have the complete word of God with no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately .With a warning no to add or substract. But the father of lies is still with all lying power making the true gospel without effect.
Luke 18:8 as a query speaks of it.
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
In other words. When Christ does come on the last day will they be walking understanding God not seen by the faith of Christ that works in those who believe. Or will they seek after personal self edifying experience .?No faith need for that .
Like those who desired to make Jesus into a circus seal .Do a miracle when we see it we will exercise faith . This shows they have no faith. Again not little. none. The pagan foundation; "out of sight out of mind".
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
I call that wonderment seekers that love amazement as a amusement .
I would suggest it is why Jesus informed Nicodemus a former wonderment seeker. Marvel not, but rather believe as the word of prophecy give ears to understand.
Called the hearing of faith the first experience of his love working in us. The first love we return to when he calls us to repent. . And not the love that comes from self edifying.
Its one of those "old age". . resurrected "new age". History repeats itself in that way because mankind does not, cannot change .At the end of every empire, nation or family its moral issues that cause the fall.
Entertaining the congregation with lying signs and wonders rather than prophecy of what those wonders are called "sign gifts" (side shows) . Rather than believing prophecy they seek after a sign of personal experience, making the self edifying experience the new gospel .
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 King James Version (KJV)And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Confirming unbelief. . no faith of Christ working in them . Not little none.
We know we have the complete word of God with no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately .With a warning no to add or substract. But the father of lies is still with all lying power making the true gospel without effect.
Luke 18:8 as a query speaks of it.
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
In other words. When Christ does come on the last day will they be walking understanding God not seen by the faith of Christ that works in those who believe. Or will they seek after personal self edifying experience .?No faith need for that .
Like those who desired to make Jesus into a circus seal .Do a miracle when we see it we will exercise faith . This shows they have no faith. Again not little. none. The pagan foundation; "out of sight out of mind".
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
I call that wonderment seekers that love amazement as a amusement .
I would suggest it is why Jesus informed Nicodemus a former wonderment seeker. Marvel not, but rather believe as the word of prophecy give ears to understand.
Called the hearing of faith the first experience of his love working in us. The first love we return to when he calls us to repent. . And not the love that comes from self edifying.
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I watched the entire thing and I have some things to say about it. The only real issue I have is the whole clothing thing so many times I have seen and heard and experienced people leering at people because they are not dressed in nice neat clothes I never heard of the apostles caring about what clothing you wore, I mean if it is offensive clothes that is different but you know I came to a church once and the only clean clothes I had was my pikachu shirt and black jeans not only did I get leering looks but a lady even got out of her seat telling me I should be ashamed for wearing such demonic clothes in churrch I never got a word in before the sermon started.
But You know this guy does have a lot of major points, it is true that all he said about the churches happens I mean some of the most famous and popular pastors are rich have huge churches and congregations and somee even have mansions I don't know why they need these things I mean unless they are housing many other people what purpose is there in that?
And it is true also that it is easy to make a forumla to form a mega church I have noticed how easy it is to make teachings and sermons to tickle the ears to make people think I don't have to change my ways or make things easier for the people listening it is in fact a comfortable sitting and even then most people cannot wait fpor the sermon to be over
Something else that kind of always urked me is how fake people act in church. I mean people purposely act more nice and polite even faking smiling and acting like good decent people yet when they get home you see how differently they act, we come as we are in both church and life if we have to pretend to be what good church are supposed to be when we go to church then something is wrong.
Another thing is that yes the cross is a burden on those who do not know it, it is good to give words of life but the difference is that ear tickling and words of life are not in any way the same thing, ear tickling leads to self you feel better about yourself you find it easier to follow a doctrine that eases your conscious you don't worry about changing and then go home to sit on the couch and watch football
words of life do not always convict us but they do lead us to Christ they make us change our ways our hearts our way of thinking and seeing the gospel always points to christ and sometimes that does include facing where we need work people just don't want to face it. I have been to many different churches but none of them felt like home to me because I never felt the spirit in them, I am not trying to boast but I am very sensative to the presence and voice of the spirit I can walk into a room and sense the spirit when he is in it I have only found this in pone church and it happened to be a small one this also was the only church where God lead me to stand in front of everyopne and speak words of life this si the only time I ever saw the spirit just flow into peoples hearts the spark was made inner healing was done and tears flowed.
Sadly I was never able to go back to that church because I cannot drive and live far away from it I cannot ever get a ride and don't have the money for a ride either For the most part I think this guy is spot on
But You know this guy does have a lot of major points, it is true that all he said about the churches happens I mean some of the most famous and popular pastors are rich have huge churches and congregations and somee even have mansions I don't know why they need these things I mean unless they are housing many other people what purpose is there in that?
And it is true also that it is easy to make a forumla to form a mega church I have noticed how easy it is to make teachings and sermons to tickle the ears to make people think I don't have to change my ways or make things easier for the people listening it is in fact a comfortable sitting and even then most people cannot wait fpor the sermon to be over
Something else that kind of always urked me is how fake people act in church. I mean people purposely act more nice and polite even faking smiling and acting like good decent people yet when they get home you see how differently they act, we come as we are in both church and life if we have to pretend to be what good church are supposed to be when we go to church then something is wrong.
Another thing is that yes the cross is a burden on those who do not know it, it is good to give words of life but the difference is that ear tickling and words of life are not in any way the same thing, ear tickling leads to self you feel better about yourself you find it easier to follow a doctrine that eases your conscious you don't worry about changing and then go home to sit on the couch and watch football
words of life do not always convict us but they do lead us to Christ they make us change our ways our hearts our way of thinking and seeing the gospel always points to christ and sometimes that does include facing where we need work people just don't want to face it. I have been to many different churches but none of them felt like home to me because I never felt the spirit in them, I am not trying to boast but I am very sensative to the presence and voice of the spirit I can walk into a room and sense the spirit when he is in it I have only found this in pone church and it happened to be a small one this also was the only church where God lead me to stand in front of everyopne and speak words of life this si the only time I ever saw the spirit just flow into peoples hearts the spark was made inner healing was done and tears flowed.
Sadly I was never able to go back to that church because I cannot drive and live far away from it I cannot ever get a ride and don't have the money for a ride either For the most part I think this guy is spot on
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Here's where I'm at.....if your looking for a perfect church....a perfect person ....a perfect reputation you won't find it.
I had asked to listen to the message not the speaker. If God can give voice to a ass or raise stones to praise he certainly can choose what ever avenue he sees fit to convey his message.
Jesus was the most discredited person that ever walked yet he is truth.
I dare say that some here without knowing the new testament and lived in Christ day would stand in the crowd that demanded crucifixion.
There are more scripture in the word of God about failure than success. Why because we will fail in one way or another. Pride, flattery, reputation, all are poison to the Christian.
Wanting to be something or someone more than what we were created for started this whole thing of sin.
The message is clear...the motive is warning....our God is a never changing God. Yet the known church is changing. Changing the very core of our foundation leading little lambs to a slaughter.
Every Christ centered church has brought something to the table of reason. We may not believe totally in there doctrine or practice when they expound on things other than salvation issues and the deity of Christ but such is the body of Christ today.
We now are warned that a church is arising that challenges the word of God. That preach self help, that preach take comfort in your sins. That preach another gospel.
Even a established Christ center church can fall pray to these lies looking for numbers .
Not relying on the leading of the Holy Spirits denying the power of the gospel.
Does this not alarm anyone?
I had asked to listen to the message not the speaker. If God can give voice to a ass or raise stones to praise he certainly can choose what ever avenue he sees fit to convey his message.
Jesus was the most discredited person that ever walked yet he is truth.
I dare say that some here without knowing the new testament and lived in Christ day would stand in the crowd that demanded crucifixion.
There are more scripture in the word of God about failure than success. Why because we will fail in one way or another. Pride, flattery, reputation, all are poison to the Christian.
Wanting to be something or someone more than what we were created for started this whole thing of sin.
The message is clear...the motive is warning....our God is a never changing God. Yet the known church is changing. Changing the very core of our foundation leading little lambs to a slaughter.
Every Christ centered church has brought something to the table of reason. We may not believe totally in there doctrine or practice when they expound on things other than salvation issues and the deity of Christ but such is the body of Christ today.
We now are warned that a church is arising that challenges the word of God. That preach self help, that preach take comfort in your sins. That preach another gospel.
Even a established Christ center church can fall pray to these lies looking for numbers .
Not relying on the leading of the Holy Spirits denying the power of the gospel.
Does this not alarm anyone?
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I am thinking something. We cannot get the televangelists. But should not our course of action rather be going to these megachurch websites and forums or maybe in person if they gather nearby, rather than talking amongst ourselves.
Here they broadcast the "seed of faith" thing every morning. It makes me shudder, how are these people not afraid of God. This phony man holds a presentation in front of a paid actor audience shouting aaaa-men, cutting fruits one by one and showing seed. If you keep seed in your pocket you'll never get fruit. Keep money in your pocket and you'll never save money. By the end of the presentation he has a fruit salad going on. Send us a thousand dollars, and God will bless you, plant the money into the ground and you will have money. Preying on the weak and the gullible. Targeting the poorest, struggling believers. If you can't pay your rent this month, just send us money and that'll fix it. Instead of helping the poor, these wolves want to fleece them. And the wolves paid for that TV term, we can do nothing about it.
I am wondering if we can do something constructive we can do, besides just sharing how upset we are about these things.
:brainstorm open:
Here they broadcast the "seed of faith" thing every morning. It makes me shudder, how are these people not afraid of God. This phony man holds a presentation in front of a paid actor audience shouting aaaa-men, cutting fruits one by one and showing seed. If you keep seed in your pocket you'll never get fruit. Keep money in your pocket and you'll never save money. By the end of the presentation he has a fruit salad going on. Send us a thousand dollars, and God will bless you, plant the money into the ground and you will have money. Preying on the weak and the gullible. Targeting the poorest, struggling believers. If you can't pay your rent this month, just send us money and that'll fix it. Instead of helping the poor, these wolves want to fleece them. And the wolves paid for that TV term, we can do nothing about it.
I am wondering if we can do something constructive we can do, besides just sharing how upset we are about these things.
:brainstorm open:
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Hehehe
You're right tho, what good does it do to the people being strung along in these places, for us to talk about it here? Unless we bring the understanding we have to them.
Let's join their small groups & evangelize them
We can bring fajitas to ingratiate ourselves
You're right tho, what good does it do to the people being strung along in these places, for us to talk about it here? Unless we bring the understanding we have to them.
Let's join their small groups & evangelize them
We can bring fajitas to ingratiate ourselves
Heavenly Father, in Jesus' name we pray.
Help us pull your sheep out of the lions' mouth.
Direct us where to go, and make us worthy so we will in love tell the truth about these megachurches these people go to and are preyed upon.
Also direct us our way, let them cross our paths, so they have the opportunity to hear the truth.
Stir their curiosity up to open their Bibles and open their eyes to see and ears to hear what is being spoken of in the Bible, so they can shake off the deception and really serve God. Do this for your glory, Jesus. And when they go out, let them also lead more of others out. Lead them out by the thousand, and thousands of thousands. Let the whole of your people come out of her.
Amen in Jesus' name
I don't even know who are these groups, so for starters, let anyone who knows something step in and educate. Just let's be careful not to pluck the wheat with the tares. I have heard of Hillsong having very weird teachings and services going on, and saw on YouTube what I can only describe as stripping on stage, in their "worship service". They went from twisting simple praise and worship into glamourous entertainment, to plain raunchy.
When it comes to YouTube, I think these people are largely exposed, people pretty much everywhere speak the truth about such preachers and services, unless a particular channel censors or bans all comments. I am thinking joining their private forums will quickly ban us but we may try that too. It might be a good secret op to join these places, infiltrate and post Scripture for uplifting, without explaining our views, or post Bible audiobooks. Just post Scripture in a non confrontational way, they can't ban you for that, and let the Word of God do the talking. Because it's hard for me to imagine that their followers are sufficiently exposed to Scripture as a whole. They are exposed to Scripture that gets twisted immediately after being spoken, the verses being chosen very selectively by their teachers, no way they will teach all of the Scripture.
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Soulweaver you made my day praise God. Tears flowed and my wife came running up wondering what happened.
Our first commandment is to tend the garden in fact that is one of our tasks that we were created for.
Weeds will grow, fungus will grow, plants will stunt insects will infest a unkept garden.
Some will say that was Eden not the world but what did Jesus say? How are we to pray?
We need voices to cry from the wilderness, we are to occupy, we are to prepare the way for the Lords return.
We must speak out, we must answer the call, there's no reward for arm chair Christian's.
Let us begin to fight the good fight.
Our first commandment is to tend the garden in fact that is one of our tasks that we were created for.
Weeds will grow, fungus will grow, plants will stunt insects will infest a unkept garden.
Some will say that was Eden not the world but what did Jesus say? How are we to pray?
We need voices to cry from the wilderness, we are to occupy, we are to prepare the way for the Lords return.
We must speak out, we must answer the call, there's no reward for arm chair Christian's.
Let us begin to fight the good fight.
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THIS is surely prevalent within many Congregations that I know of, and have heard reported on. I suspect it is a world wide problem among the various Congregations (regardless of Denomination/Group), especially when GROWTH is replaced with the Gospel of Christ.
It reminds me of that song............Just Preach Jesus..........where a young Pastor was told what he could/could not preach............
I thank God for my Churches (three that I attend and love) of God Reformation Movement where the Gospel is preached, and if someone's feelings get hurt, well............THAT'S WHAT THE ALTER IS THERE FOR!
It reminds me of that song............Just Preach Jesus..........where a young Pastor was told what he could/could not preach............
I thank God for my Churches (three that I attend and love) of God Reformation Movement where the Gospel is preached, and if someone's feelings get hurt, well............THAT'S WHAT THE ALTER IS THERE FOR!
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E
Clothes
what about the poor that can not afford these fancy suits, we just turn them away?
choir? I loved the choir I sang in, but are they required to “feed the sheep”?
20 minite sermonette hellfire and brimestone I called them, are they winning the lost and feeding the sheep
when I returned home after 15 years in the military, I went to the church I grew up in, there was only about 30 people attending, the pastor was an evangelist, he Could preach the gospel. But the people I saw where people who went there when I left 15 years earlier with some new faces, who I got to know and am sure they were saved, did they need the gospel? Where they growing? There was no growth, in fact a few left. They were upset because I would not join, but how could I join a church that was stagnant. sadly. I drove by the old church a few weeks ago, it is no longer open.
there is no perfect church, but sadly churches focus to, much on the wrong things
what about the poor that can not afford these fancy suits, we just turn them away?
choir? I loved the choir I sang in, but are they required to “feed the sheep”?
20 minite sermonette hellfire and brimestone I called them, are they winning the lost and feeding the sheep
when I returned home after 15 years in the military, I went to the church I grew up in, there was only about 30 people attending, the pastor was an evangelist, he Could preach the gospel. But the people I saw where people who went there when I left 15 years earlier with some new faces, who I got to know and am sure they were saved, did they need the gospel? Where they growing? There was no growth, in fact a few left. They were upset because I would not join, but how could I join a church that was stagnant. sadly. I drove by the old church a few weeks ago, it is no longer open.
there is no perfect church, but sadly churches focus to, much on the wrong things
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"We are witnessing perilous events never before witnessed, in any age. And, it is disturbing,
many words are put forth in hope of conveying what is felt that people want to hear...( politicians being notorious of same tactic )
'tell them anything for self acclaim, and to be on my side'.
And, this is precisely the mind set of untold 'preachers', for the sole purpose of sucking in the hapless souls that are honestly
seeking some type of reprieve in their quest of God.
Rarely are my thoughts put forth in this forum, as the word of God shall be upon each with diverse interpretations. So being,
perhaps none are right or wrong, I simply disqualify myself as one that claims to know my way is the only way.
Each must make a choice, and choose their own path. A sad observation, being that so many pursue endless dialog about
the word of God, yet appear, by attitude and behavior, of no apparent testimony of how God's word has helped change their lives
in a positive manner, by applying the 'word' in their own life. And, I understand the premise of spreading the 'gospel'.
And, I also understand to be an example must surly require more than merely reciting repetitious scripture to a lost soul...
this being a profound will of God, to bring in and help lost souls.
By the grace of God, my personal spiritual 'awakening' experience, has put my life on a spiritual journey, now over two decades
ago, that has turned my life around to knowing, born again is a renewed look at my life, and by the Holy Spirit bringing
remembrance of striving to live under God's 'principles' of life, here in the now...such simple things as love, goodness, kindness,
gentleness, self control...etc. etc. And, I have found what sounds simple, are the hardest challenges each day, striving
to get right by God's 'principles' and myself...this alone being a full time endeavor...believe it.!
( Just my thoughts from, 'this side of the glass'.........Praise God!" )
many words are put forth in hope of conveying what is felt that people want to hear...( politicians being notorious of same tactic )
'tell them anything for self acclaim, and to be on my side'.
And, this is precisely the mind set of untold 'preachers', for the sole purpose of sucking in the hapless souls that are honestly
seeking some type of reprieve in their quest of God.
Rarely are my thoughts put forth in this forum, as the word of God shall be upon each with diverse interpretations. So being,
perhaps none are right or wrong, I simply disqualify myself as one that claims to know my way is the only way.
Each must make a choice, and choose their own path. A sad observation, being that so many pursue endless dialog about
the word of God, yet appear, by attitude and behavior, of no apparent testimony of how God's word has helped change their lives
in a positive manner, by applying the 'word' in their own life. And, I understand the premise of spreading the 'gospel'.
And, I also understand to be an example must surly require more than merely reciting repetitious scripture to a lost soul...
this being a profound will of God, to bring in and help lost souls.
By the grace of God, my personal spiritual 'awakening' experience, has put my life on a spiritual journey, now over two decades
ago, that has turned my life around to knowing, born again is a renewed look at my life, and by the Holy Spirit bringing
remembrance of striving to live under God's 'principles' of life, here in the now...such simple things as love, goodness, kindness,
gentleness, self control...etc. etc. And, I have found what sounds simple, are the hardest challenges each day, striving
to get right by God's 'principles' and myself...this alone being a full time endeavor...believe it.!
( Just my thoughts from, 'this side of the glass'.........Praise God!" )
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I would agree looking for numbers, numbering people and days rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal .
2 Corinthians 10:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present. For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
The golden measure of faith (the unseen) the golden rule . Gold represents faith and redeemed believers .
Mankind in doing so follows after the natural course of this corrupted creation under the father of lies, the god of this world. They create lying wonders that men seek after. (Rather than prophecy.)
No sign as a wonder was given. To include the mark (666) the number of unconverted mankind. Jesus confirms by saying it a evil generation (out of sight out of mind) Mankind , that refuses to walk by the of Christ the unseen glory.
David who did not walk by faith numbered the people and many died.
2 Corinthians 10:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present. For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
The golden measure of faith (the unseen) the golden rule . Gold represents faith and redeemed believers .
Mankind in doing so follows after the natural course of this corrupted creation under the father of lies, the god of this world. They create lying wonders that men seek after. (Rather than prophecy.)
No sign as a wonder was given. To include the mark (666) the number of unconverted mankind. Jesus confirms by saying it a evil generation (out of sight out of mind) Mankind , that refuses to walk by the of Christ the unseen glory.
David who did not walk by faith numbered the people and many died.