My take on water baptism...

[Peterlag]

Ah I see. nobody used water, yet the word uses water.

Well, you've heard this cultic teaching of yours from somewhere and no amount of Bible or church history or church creeds in history will convince you. Your mind is closed, its a lost cause. So have fun with your heresy, atleast I tried.

A post from another guy...

Post 322 from Joseph1949

Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.

 

[Guojing]

The different time periods in the Bible are called dispensations. The Greek word for “dispensation” is “oikonomia” meaning the act of administering. The word “o’kos” means house, and “nemo” means to dispense, to weigh or deal out, as a steward or housekeeper. Therefore, the word was used to manage or administrate a household. The word is used three times in Luke 16:2-4, where it's translated “stewardship.” In four other places it's translated “dispensation.” I like the word administration because it communicates very well with our current English language. We must understand these administrations have different time periods in the Bible and each have their own beginning and their own ending—with the exception of the last one.

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

So would you consider yourself a dispensationalist then?

 

[Lion222]

I heard you should hold them under until they really repent.

 

[Guojing]

I don't think Jesus washing feet had anything to do with water baptism, but you are right. Water baptism is neither good nor bad, it just gets you wet. if people want to be submersed in water and make a public event out of it, it is not sin. But it is not necessary to get saved.

Well said!

Those who preach that water baptism doesn't save you but saved people get water baptized confuses the whole issue. The latter implies that if you don't get baptized, it may not be certain that you are saved, which amounts to contradicting the former.

The way you say it has a much clearer implication.

 

[Peterlag]

Hi, after reading another post...thought I'd see the issue peeps had with your writings.

Font see anything yet but a new member....

In this case I could not be dogmatic about water Baptism.

Because I just thought of something I never seen......
This is my thought in reference to first Peter 3:21

And: Romans 6

Don't you know that all who share in Christ Jesus by being baptized also share in his death? When we were baptized, we died and were buried with Christ. We were baptized, so that we would live a new life, as Christ was raised to life by the glory of God the Father.

If we shared in Jesus' death by being baptized, we will be raised to life with him. We know that the persons we used to be were nailed to the cross with Jesus. This was done, so that our sinful bodies would no longer be the slaves of sin. We know that sin doesn't have power over dead people.

I CAN NOW SEE A WATER BAPTISM AS A SYMBOL OF PUTTING OFF THE FLESH...AS IN ALSO RELATION TO CIRCUMCISM... BECAUSE IT COULD REPRESENTS HOW WE ARE TO LIVE OUT OUR LIFE WHILE ALIVE IN THE BODY. FOR 1 Peter addresses a Baptism that saves us now...and it seems to say it is by walking by the Spirit.....
Another words in their day...it was the law after the flesh, But now it is the law after the Spirit in which we can come to have a relationship with the father and be delivered from present circumstances. People seemed to be Baptized because they accepted a teaching.

As surely as we died with Christ, we believe we will also live with him. We know that death no longer has any power over Christ. He died and was raised to life, never again to die. When Christ died, he died for sin once and for all. But now he is alive, and he lives only for God. In the same way, you must think of yourselves as dead to the power of sin. But Christ Jesus has given life to you, and you live for God.

Romans 6:3-11

You write well. Thanks for sharing. You can see more of what I write if you feel inspired to do so since my stuff is online for all to see at www.carb-fat.com/stephen.html

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus did for sure wash the disciples' feet, though. Jesus' exact words were, "Unless I wash you, you will have no part with me." John 13:8. That was quite literally with water. And Peter's response was, "Then wash me head to toe, too!" Jesus replied that those who have already been baptized need not do it again. The disciples were all Jewish: they had undergone mikva before. Judas probably underwent mikva, too, but with the wrong Spirit, and so was unclean.

Jesus never said it was a sin to undergo water baptism. So if you want Jesus to wash you, then why not go out and physically get baptized with water? You are expressing your faith--not just with feel-good "thoughts", but by actually putting one foot in front of the other.

A post from another guy...

Post 322 from Joseph1949

Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.

 

[Peterlag]

This remark not only shows your ignorance about Church doctrine, but your contempt for Christian baptism. It confirms that you are a false teacher.

I believe the doctrine of Christian baptism is in Scripture to separate genuine Christians from pretenders. Thus false ideas regarding baptism crept into the churches at a very early date, and they continue to this day.

FALSE TEACHINGS ABOUT CHRISTIAN BAPTISM

1. Baptismal regeneration -- sinners are born again when they are baptized.

2. Water washes away sins, when it is the blood of Christ which washes sins.

3. Baptism was for the remission of sins, when it is repentance that is necessary for the remission of sins.

4. Water baptism confers the gift of the Holy Spirit, when faith in Christ results in the gift of the Spirit.

5. Water baptism is necessary for salvation, when salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

6. Water baptism was only for saved Jews, and Gentile believers need not be baptized.

7. Water baptism is not a commandment for Christians today, when Christians command to be baptized.

A post from another guy...

Post 322 from Joseph1949

Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.

 

[Peterlag]

So would you consider yourself a dispensationalist then?

I don't know what a dispensationalist is.

We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.

These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

 

[Blain]

I don't think Jesus washing feet had anything to do with water baptism, but you are right. Water baptism is neither good nor bad, it just gets you wet. if people want to be submersed in water and make a public event out of it, it is not sin. But it is not necessary to get saved.

True it isn't about getting saved it is a proclamation kind of like how we testify or give testimony

 

[Blain]

A post from another guy...

Post 322 from Joseph1949

Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.

Whether or not it is a commandment doesn't seem to be the issue, the issue is whether it is biblical for the church or not. Most already know water baptism isn't what saves the issue comes when it is argued that it is a false docrtine which it isn't.
The bible makes it clear water baptism doesn't saved but it is an outward expression of giving your life to Christ I mean if a new believer wanted to be baptized for this reason if we believe it is a false doctrine do we then stop him from doing so?

 

[Guojing]

Whether or not it is a commandment doesn't seem to be the issue, the issue is whether it is biblical for the church or not. Most already know water baptism isn't what saves the issue comes when it is argued that it is a false docrtine which it isn't.
The bible makes it clear water baptism doesn't saved but it is an outward expression of giving your life to Christ I mean if a new believer wanted to be baptized for this reason if we believe it is a false doctrine do we then stop him from doing so?

As long as one is educated that his confidence for his salvation should have nothing to do with water baptism, just like it should have nothing to do with giving money to the church, speaking in tongues etc, then getting wet as a testimony to your unsaved friends and relatives is fine.

 

[Guojing]

I don't know what a dispensationalist is.

We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.

These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

You appear to be one then, so I think it will be good for you to read more about it. It will provide you with a unified framework to understand the various debates in Christianity.

I recommend Les Feldick and Cornelius R Stam.

 

[Blain]

As long as one is educated that his confidence for his salvation should have nothing to do with water baptism, just like it should have nothing to do with giving money to the church, speaking in tongues etc, then getting wet as a testimony to your unsaved friends and relatives is fine.

Exactly it isn't what saves it is like giving a testimony for being born again. Also as for Peter being a dispensationalist now that I think about it it kind of makes sense
Also Peter this might help you understand what it is granted it actually is only the surface
Dispensationalism is a religious interpretive system and metanarrative for the Bible. It considers biblical history as divided by God into dispensations, defined periods or ages to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles. According to dispensationalism, each age of God's plan is thus administered in a certain way, and humanity is held responsible as a steward during that time. Dispensationalists' presuppositions start with the inductive reasoning that biblical history has a particular discontinuity in the way God reacts to humanity in the unfolding of their, sometimes supposed, free wills.[1]
Dispensationalism stands in contrast to the traditional system of covenant theology used in biblical interpretation.

 

[Guojing]

Exactly it isn't what saves it is like giving a testimony for being born again. Also as for Peter being a dispensationalist now that I think about it it kind of makes sense
Also Peter this might help you understand what it is granted it actually is only the surface
Dispensationalism is a religious interpretive system and metanarrative for the Bible. It considers biblical history as divided by God into dispensations, defined periods or ages to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles. According to dispensationalism, each age of God's plan is thus administered in a certain way, and humanity is held responsible as a steward during that time. Dispensationalists' presuppositions start with the inductive reasoning that biblical history has a particular discontinuity in the way God reacts to humanity in the unfolding of their, sometimes supposed, free wills.[1]
Dispensationalism stands in contrast to the traditional system of covenant theology used in biblical interpretation.

As I have said to posthuman, the horror comes when you ask someone on their death bed why they are sure that they are saved, if they tell you confidently "because I have been water baptized", you know something went wrong somewhere.

Yes, how the Sanhedrin took upon themselves to stone Stephen, it was a horrifying incident for all of them. After that incident, when Peter saw that God is telling him to go to Cornelius, when God saved them without the Law, without circumcision and without water baptism, I believe he could also tell a change has happened.

I believed God made him witness all that he witnessed, in Acts 10, so that he could be the critical support for Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision, at Acts 15

 

[Blain]

As I have said to posthuman, the horror comes when you ask someone on their death bed why they are sure that they are saved, if they tell you confidently "because I have been water baptized", you know something went wrong somewhere.

Yes, how the Sanhedrin took upon themselves to stone Stephen, it was a horrifying incident for all of them. After that incident, when Peter saw that God is telling him to go to Cornelius, when God saved them without the Law, without circumcision and without water baptism, I believe he could also tell a change has happened.

I believed God made him witness all that he witnessed, in Acts 10, so that he could be the critical support for Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision, at Acts 15

Yeah that is the main issue with water baptism when people think it saves. When I was little I asked to be baptized but I did it for attention yet my mom swore she saw the holy spirit all around me, it wasn't until many years later when I was baptized with the holy spirit I was saved.

But it also is not a work of the flesh it is like with everything else in life a matter of the heart

 

[Peterlag]

You appear to be one then, so I think it will be good for you to read more about it. It will provide you with a unified framework to understand the various debates in Christianity.

I recommend Les Feldick and Cornelius R Stam.

Now let me get this straight. God speaks to different people at different times and you mean to tell me those who realize this have been given a name like if there's another possible way God could speak to people?

 

[Peterlag]

Whether or not it is a commandment doesn't seem to be the issue, the issue is whether it is biblical for the church or not. Most already know water baptism isn't what saves the issue comes when it is argued that it is a false docrtine which it isn't.
The bible makes it clear water baptism doesn't saved but it is an outward expression of giving your life to Christ I mean if a new believer wanted to be baptized for this reason if we believe it is a false doctrine do we then stop him from doing so?

It's not a false doctrine. It's not a doctrine at all.
Here's more data on Baptism...

The question we must ask, and answer, is why did Jesus command his disciples to stay in Jerusalem? It was to wait for what the Father had promised, i.e., the gift of holy spirit. The disciples had already been baptized in water. If water baptism was all that was important and necessary for salvation, there would have been no need for the disciples to wait in Jerusalem or receive the gift of holy spirit. Sadly, many people reverse what Jesus said here in Acts. They say water baptism is essential for the believer and act as if baptism in holy spirit is not really essential but perhaps “nice to have,” or valuable in many ways. Jesus was teaching quite the opposite. He knew the disciples had already been water baptized. He also knew it would no longer be intrinsically valuable after the Church started on the Day of Pentecost. Thus, he commanded his disciples to stay in Jerusalem and receive baptism in holy spirit “because” John [only] baptized in water, but holy spirit was going to be first poured out in Jerusalem.

“with water.” The Greek is hudōr (#5204 ὕδωρ) in the dative, thus, “with water.” Thus it is clear that the element that people were baptized with was water. However, in the later part of the verse, the specific word “in” (en, #1722 ἐν) is used, emphasizing that the Christian is baptized “in” holy spirit. There is one baptism for the Christian, and it is spirit, not water (cp. Eph. 4:5). John’s baptism was a shadow of what was to come, and even John himself said this (Matt. 3:11; etc.). There is no reason to baptize in water today. Nevertheless, the practice continues, and sadly some even teach that it is necessary for salvation.

 

[Peterlag]

True it isn't about getting saved it is a proclamation kind of like how we testify or give testimony

Here's some data on Baptism...

The question we must ask, and answer, is why did Jesus command his disciples to stay in Jerusalem? It was to wait for what the Father had promised, i.e., the gift of holy spirit. The disciples had already been baptized in water. If water baptism was all that was important and necessary for salvation, there would have been no need for the disciples to wait in Jerusalem or receive the gift of holy spirit. Sadly, many people reverse what Jesus said here in Acts. They say water baptism is essential for the believer and act as if baptism in holy spirit is not really essential but perhaps “nice to have,” or valuable in many ways. Jesus was teaching quite the opposite. He knew the disciples had already been water baptized. He also knew it would no longer be intrinsically valuable after the Church started on the Day of Pentecost. Thus, he commanded his disciples to stay in Jerusalem and receive baptism in holy spirit “because” John [only] baptized in water, but holy spirit was going to be first poured out in Jerusalem.

“with water.” The Greek is hudōr (#5204 ὕδωρ) in the dative, thus, “with water.” Thus it is clear that the element that people were baptized with was water. However, in the later part of the verse, the specific word “in” (en, #1722 ἐν) is used, emphasizing that the Christian is baptized “in” holy spirit. There is one baptism for the Christian, and it is spirit, not water (cp. Eph. 4:5). John’s baptism was a shadow of what was to come, and even John himself said this (Matt. 3:11; etc.). There is no reason to baptize in water today. Nevertheless, the practice continues, and sadly some even teach that it is necessary for salvation.

 

[Blain]

Here's some data on Baptism...

The question we must ask, and answer, is why did Jesus command his disciples to stay in Jerusalem? It was to wait for what the Father had promised, i.e., the gift of holy spirit. The disciples had already been baptized in water. If water baptism was all that was important and necessary for salvation, there would have been no need for the disciples to wait in Jerusalem or receive the gift of holy spirit. Sadly, many people reverse what Jesus said here in Acts. They say water baptism is essential for the believer and act as if baptism in holy spirit is not really essential but perhaps “nice to have,” or valuable in many ways. Jesus was teaching quite the opposite. He knew the disciples had already been water baptized. He also knew it would no longer be intrinsically valuable after the Church started on the Day of Pentecost. Thus, he commanded his disciples to stay in Jerusalem and receive baptism in holy spirit “because” John [only] baptized in water, but holy spirit was going to be first poured out in Jerusalem.

“with water.” The Greek is hudōr (#5204 ὕδωρ) in the dative, thus, “with water.” Thus it is clear that the element that people were baptized with was water. However, in the later part of the verse, the specific word “in” (en, #1722 ἐν) is used, emphasizing that the Christian is baptized “in” holy spirit. There is one baptism for the Christian, and it is spirit, not water (cp. Eph. 4:5). John’s baptism was a shadow of what was to come, and even John himself said this (Matt. 3:11; etc.). There is no reason to baptize in water today. Nevertheless, the practice continues, and sadly some even teach that it is necessary for salvation.

And again the scriptures show the reason for it I gave the scriptures on what it says it is for but you completely disregarded, another thing is that if we are being technical it is a doctrine any set of beliefs religous or spiritual practice or teachings in a specific manner is by definition a doctrine even if you don't consider it to be and you even said it was a false doctrine.

You know I ntoiced you say here is some data a lot which shows you think inteligently and are inteligent yourself, however I also think you think to logically and use intelilect more than you do in the spirit. The key is balance, when it comes to the things of god it isn't bad to have a logical view of the bile but you also have to be to use the spirit as well this I think is where you are making the mistake.
I want to say I am not saying this to be judgemental or attack you but these are things I have noticed about you, yes you are inteligent you have a good grasp on how to utilize this aspect and apply it to the bible but the problem is that you are prideful arrogant, you think know better than most people mock and belittle others and you have no capacity to listen and learn from others, this is the trait of the logical but not of the spiritual which is why you cannot be to much on either side if you are to logical then this is what happens if you are to spiritual you fail to use logic and get carried away

 

[Scribe]

Here's some data on Baptism...

The question we must ask, and answer, is why did Jesus command his disciples to stay in Jerusalem? It was to wait for what the Father had promised, i.e., the gift of holy spirit. The disciples had already been baptized in water. If water baptism was all that was important and necessary for salvation, there would have been no need for the disciples to wait in Jerusalem or receive the gift of holy spirit.

Jesus did not tell them to wait in Jerusalem for salvation. He said wait because they would be enduded with power from on high to be witnesses. He had already breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit 10 days before. They were already saved. Jesus Never said that they needed to wait in the city of Jerusalem because they needed something else for their salvation. You have added your own imaginations as to WHY they were told to wait instead of agreeing with what the text says WAS the reason that they were to wait. Not for their salvation but for power to be witnesses.

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


F. F Bruce comments, “The idea of an unbaptized Christian is simply not entertained in the New Testament.”
56F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts, The New International Commentary on the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1954), 77.

Matt 28: 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.