The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

[massorite]

You do realize that "sleeping" or "resting" refers to those in Hades awaiting Christ to free them, right?

Yes I do. I have done some very heavy studies of hell and found and I have found that there are, like all other things that God has created, three different sections to the lower parts of the earth. One is called Gehenna, which is a place of torment, Hades which is the place of departed souls and the definition of the word "Hades" doesn't distinguish between good or bad souls and lastly Tartarus which is a prison where Angels in chains are reserved unto judgement.
The problem is that KJ in all of his wisdom changed 99% of the common names of the three sections of the lower parts of the earth to the word "Hell" which confounded our ability to better understand what the Word of God was telling us about the lower parts of the earth. Hades consists of two places. The place of torment that the rich man went to, then there is a great fixed gulf (water) between the place of torment and the Bosom of Abraham which is the same place as Paradise which a resting place for the dead in Christ until He comes to Resurrect us from the grave.

 

[CS1]

I agree. No matter how many or what any scriptures says they will never back down from their doctrinal beliefs because they are prideful and have invested to much of themselves into a false and antichrist belief.

God has stopped doing anything after 77AD lol. And the words of Christ are taken down by Paul. it is foolishness.

The idea of no rapture is fine, but it is the human rational interjected to limit God. You see it in the very argument they try to formulate:

"They would suffered in vain and those responsible got away with it."
"Perhaps you can explain to us how God repaid those who were troubling the early Thessalonian Church? How and when was the vengeance taken on them? "

None of this is biblical it is taking what the word of God said out of Context.

 

[CS1]

Yes I do. I have done some very heavy studies of hell and found and I have found that there are, like all other things that God has created, three different sections to the lower parts of the earth. One is called Gehenna, which is a place of torment, Hades which is the place of departed souls and the definition of the word "Hades" doesn't distinguish between good or bad souls and lastly Tartarus which is a prison where Angels in chains are reserved unto judgement.
The problem is that KJ in all of his wisdom changed 99% of the common names of the three sections of the lower parts of the earth to the word "Hell" which confounded our ability to better understand what the Word of God was telling us about the lower parts of the earth. Hades consists of two places. The place of torment that the rich man went to, then there is a great fixed gulf (water) between the place of torment and the Bosom of Abraham which is the same place as Paradise which a resting place for the dead in Christ until He comes to Resurrect us from the grave.

This is why many have a hard time with our SDA friends.

There is no eternal hell
There is no coming of the Lord
There is no resurrection of the unrighteous dead.
There is no eternal judgment
There is no entering the presence of The lord for the righteous dead.

Yet Jesus said:
Hell is a place of eternal torment
I am Coming soon
I am the resurrection and the Life Yet tho one was dead he shall live. and he that Belieth in ME shall NEVER DIE
Jesus will judge as we are told in Rev.
I go to prepare a place for you that where I am YOU may be also. IF it were not so I would not have told you.

But our friends know Better than Jesus. it is not believing what Jesus said, nope, it is believed my Human intellect.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I was asking John146 because he said this:

He clearly said, "Souls can speak, feel, think, etc." and that they wear robes. I was asking him how that is possible. So far, only crickets from John146.

A "soul" is a the "I", the "ego", the "self", the "person". Of course, a person can think and wear clothes. Ever here the expression, "I got to church early and there wasn't a SOUL in the place"? "Soul" simply means "Person". A Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, as Genesis 2:7 plainly and undeniably teaches. At death, the opposite occurs and the Soul ceases to be.

Now you said, "the soul ceases to be" until one of the resurrections. Does it vanish into thin air?

Electric current (Breath of Life) flowing through a light bulb (Body) will produce light (Living Soul), right? If we flip the switch and interrupt the current flow, does light continue shining or does it pass out of existence? Likewise, when the body "shall return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit shall return unto the God Who gave it", the Soul ceases to exist; it becomes a "Dead Soul".

Where does it go and how does it know the way back?

"It", the Soul, ceases to exist the moment the Spirit returns to God and the Body begins decomposition. Does Genesis 2:7 say that Adam was "given" a Soul? Does Genesis say a "soul" traveled to the Garden of Eden and entered Adam? Did Adam exist before he was created? No, it says Adam "became" a Soul at the moment the Breath of Life entered the Body...conversely, at death, the Soul doesn't travel anywhere..it ceases to be. The only thing that travels is the Breath of Life which returns to God.

I agree the body returns to the earth. What happens next to that body?

It rots away and dissolves into the elements of the Periodic Table.

Please explain the mechanism whereby that body comes back to life as a spiritual body.

Once a Person, or "Living Soul", dies and becomes a "Dead Soul" (ceases to exist), he stays dead until the one or the other Resurrections. They can fight wars and detonate nukes on top of his grave but he'll "perceiveth it not of them" because "the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything." (Job 14:21 KJV; Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)...until the one or the other of the two Resurrections.

In the Resurrection of Life, God provides new bodies for the saints (2 Corinthians 5) in which He breathes His Breath of Life and they are alive forevermore.

In the Resurrection of Damnation, the wicked are raised to a Second Life with mortal bodies - probably the ones they had just before their death - be judged, and then cast into the Lake of Fire. After each suffer according to their deeds, God will withdraw the Breath of Life from them and they will die the Second Death, leaving their bodies to turn to ashes. The Second Death is a permanent death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection. That's why Jesus called the first death a "sleep" because everybody's waking up in the one or the other Resurrection.

 

[CS1]

A "soul" is a the "I", the "ego", the "self", the "person". Of course, a person can think and wear clothes. Ever here the expression, "I got to church early and there wasn't a SOUL in the place"? "Soul" simply means "Person". A Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, as Genesis 2:7 plainly and undeniably teaches. At death, the opposite occurs and the Soul ceases to be.
Electric current (Breath of Life) flowing through a light bulb (Body) will produce light (Living Soul), right? If we flip the switch and interrupt the current flow, does light continue shining or does it pass out of existence? Likewise, when the body "shall return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit shall return unto the God Who gave it", the Soul ceases to exist; it becomes a "Dead Soul".
"It", the Soul, ceases to exist the moment the Spirit returns to God and the Body begins decomposition. Does Genesis 2:7 say that Adam was "given" a Soul? Does Genesis say a "soul" traveled to the Garden of Eden and entered Adam? Did Adam exist before he was created? No, it says Adam "became" a Soul at the moment the Breath of Life entered the Body...conversely, at death, the Soul doesn't travel anywhere..it ceases to be. The only thing that travels is the Breath of Life which returns to God.
It rots away and dissolves into the elements of the Periodic Table.
Once a Person, or "Living Soul", dies and becomes a "Dead Soul" (ceases to exist), he stays dead until the one or the other Resurrections. They can fight wars and detonate nukes on top of his grave but he'll "perceiveth it not of them" because "the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything." (Job 14:21 KJV; Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)...until the one or the other of the two Resurrections.

In the Resurrection of Life, God provides new bodies for the saints (2 Corinthians 5) in which He breathes His Breath of Life and they are alive forevermore.

In the Resurrection of Damnation, the wicked are raised to a Second Life with mortal bodies - probably the ones they had just before their death - be judged, and then cast into the Lake of Fire. After each suffer according to their deeds, God will withdraw the Breath of Life from them and they will die the Second Death, leaving their bodies to turn to ashes. The Second Death is a permanent death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection. That's why Jesus called the first death a "sleep" because everybody's waking up in the one or the other Resurrection.

wrong!

sleep was only in context to those of the righteous dead 1Thess 4:13-18

 

[John146]

Please show me where the word, "soul" is found in the above passage that you just relied upon.

Who are those that are asleep that God is bringing with Him to receive their glorified bodies?

 

[Ahwatukee]

A "soul" is a the "I", the "ego", the "self", the "person". Of course, a person can think and wear clothes. Ever here the expression, "I got to church early and there wasn't a SOUL in the place"? "Soul" simply means "Person". A Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, as Genesis 2:7 plainly and undeniably teaches. At death, the opposite occurs and the Soul ceases to be.
Electric current (Breath of Life) flowing through a light bulb (Body) will produce light (Living Soul), right? If we flip the switch and interrupt the current flow, does light continue shining or does it pass out of existence? Likewise, when the body "shall return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit shall return unto the God Who gave it", the Soul ceases to exist; it becomes a "Dead Soul".
"It", the Soul, ceases to exist the moment the Spirit returns to God and the Body begins decomposition. Does Genesis 2:7 say that Adam was "given" a Soul? Does Genesis say a "soul" traveled to the Garden of Eden and entered Adam? Did Adam exist before he was created? No, it says Adam "became" a Soul at the moment the Breath of Life entered the Body...conversely, at death, the Soul doesn't travel anywhere..it ceases to be. The only thing that travels is the Breath of Life which returns to God.
It rots away and dissolves into the elements of the Periodic Table.
Once a Person, or "Living Soul", dies and becomes a "Dead Soul" (ceases to exist), he stays dead until the one or the other Resurrections. They can fight wars and detonate nukes on top of his grave but he'll "perceiveth it not of them" because "the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything." (Job 14:21 KJV; Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)...until the one or the other of the two Resurrections.

In the Resurrection of Life, God provides new bodies for the saints (2 Corinthians 5) in which He breathes His Breath of Life and they are alive forevermore.

In the Resurrection of Damnation, the wicked are raised to a Second Life with mortal bodies - probably the ones they had just before their death - be judged, and then cast into the Lake of Fire. After each suffer according to their deeds, God will withdraw the Breath of Life from them and they will die the Second Death, leaving their bodies to turn to ashes. The Second Death is a permanent death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection. That's why Jesus called the first death a "sleep" because everybody's waking up in the one or the other Resurrection.

What you wrote regarding "In the Resurrection of Damnation" there is not one scripture that supports your claim of cessation of existence for the wicked. The second death is another name for the lake of fire. Scripture makes it very clear with the use of the words, 'forever and ever, eternal and never ending and everlasting, that the punishment of the wicked is never ending conscious awareness in the lake of fire, which is the the second death. There is no scripture which states that God withdraws the breath of the wicked , leaving their bodies to turn to ashes.

There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. The righteous will receive immortal and glorified bodies, where the wicked will receive indestructible bodies mete for their punishment. They will be physical bodies which cannot be destroyed, but will experience the torment of flame.

Life = eternal conscious awareness in the joy and the kingdom of God

Death = Eternal conscious awareness in separation from God in the lake of fire.

"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The same word 'aionios' translated as 'eternal' in the verse above, is used to describe the fate of both the righteous and the wicked and it must therefore retain the same meaning for both. That said, you can't have the wicked experience temporary punishment and the righteous experience unending life. Whatever meaning you apply to one, has to be applied to the other.

Since we know that eternal life for the righteous means never ending existence in the kingdom of God, then eternal punishment must also meaning never ending existence in separation from God in the lake of fire. No one who has come into existence, whether angel or mankind, will cease to exist.

You problem is that you don't understand the meaning of death. It is not cessation of existence, but is one's state of being in relation to God.

Everyone who died in their sins throughout all of history, like the rich man of the rich man and Lazarus fame, their spirits have gone into Hades/Sheol and continue to do so 24/7. At the time of the great white throne judgment, their bodies will be resurrected and their spirits will be released from Sheol/Hades being united with their resurrected bodies, and they will stand before God to be judged for every sin. And because their names will not be found in the book of life, they will be cast into the lake of fire suffering eternal, never ending, on-going, eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

The reference to 'sleep' is referring to the body only, not the spirit. 2 Corinthians 5:6 and Philippians 1:21-22 make it very clear that, when the righteous die, their spirits depart and go immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. Regarding this, when the resurrection takes place, those who have died in Christ, their bodies will be resurrected and their spirits will be reunited with their resurrected bodies, immortal and glorified. In opposition, when the wicked die, their spirits depart from the body and go down into Hades to begin their punishment where they will remain until the great white throne judgment.

The word 'anastasis' translated as 'resurrection' is defined as the physical body standing up again. Therefore, the resurrection has to do with the spirit returning to the body. Jesus is our example of this. When the disciples didn't believe, the Lord showed them the nail marks in His hands and feet as proof. So, the resurrection is a bodily standing up again. That said, in the scriptures above, Paul is taking about the departure of the spirit, which is what takes place at the time of death, where the resurrection is the spirit returning to the body and standing up again.

 

[John146]

So the very scriptures you quoted contradict what you are saying. Where does it say in either one of your quoted scriptures that those who are sleeping are in heaven?? Nowhere. However those who are sleeping does prove my point. Jesus stated that the girl wasn't dead but was sleeping.
Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Lazarus who was in the bossum of Abraham was silent and never say a single word. But we know that Lazarus was saved when he died because he was carried away by angels. But the rich man was not saved and was not carried away to the Bosom of Abraham
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
When Christ was told that Lazarus was sick even Christ told Martha and Mary that Lazarus was not going to die of the sickness.
Joh 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Oh but Lazarus did die after all which means that Christ was a liar or He didn't know what He was talking about. Right??
No not at all. Though the body of Lazarus died, the souls Lazarus went to the Bosom of Abraham and during the conversation between the rich man and Abraham Lazarus was not dead at all but was in the Bosom of Abraham and never says a word because he was sleeping.
Even in the Old Testament the prophets didn't go straight to heaven when they died but went DOWN into the lower parts of the earth and were sleeping.
1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
And when Samuel was brought up he was upset because he was disturbed from his sleep.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
We are even told in prophetic scriptures that we will be sleeping in the dust of the earth and will be raised from the grave. Not brought back down from heaven so we can be raised from the grave by Christ.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:2 proves that we do not go to heaven at all when we die but that we simply go to sleep and are not awakened until Christ comes back to wake us and raise us from the grave
So who is ignorant here??? You call me ignorant yet you quote scripture that actually proves that we don't go to heaven at the point of death and will not go to heaven until the day that Christ raises us from the grave.
I would suggest that you do a little more research and know what you are talking about before you call someone ignorant and assume that you are correct and thereby making yourself look very foolish in doing so.
And still yet you have provided no scripture that tells us that we go to heaven as soon as we die.

The examples you gave are before the cross. Of course no one could go to heaven without the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[John146]

Now you are showing just how ignorant you really are. Christ is our perfect example for any and all aspects of life of our walk with him even in death even as He did we will go to Paradise/Bosom of Abraham and will be raised from the grave By God/Christ.
I would say that your statement is bordering on Blasphemy.

Paradise is located in the third heaven, the dwelling place of God. The Lord translated it after His resurrection. Notice he was caught up to paradise.

2 Corinthians 12
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Paradise is located in the third heaven, the dwelling place of God. The Lord translated it after His resurrection. Notice he was caught up to paradise.

2 Corinthians 12
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Hi John146!

Forgive me for jumping in, but the word 'paradise' should not be pigeonholed, to represent one single place. The garden of Eden was also referred to as paradise. When the thief on the cross said to Jesus "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," Jesus said to him, "truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In the event of the rich man and Lazarus, both Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were in Sheol/Hades. However, the scripture says that there was a great chasm/gulf separating the two places. When the rich man requested to have Lazarus go back up to the earth to his father's house to warn his brothers so that they didn't come to that place, Abraham said Lazarus was comforted, i.e. in a place of paradise, where the rich man was/is in a place of torment in flame. Therefore, that one side of Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were was a place of paradise. This is where the spirits of Jesus and the thief departed to at the time of death.

In further support of this, we know that Jesus did not ascend to the Father in the heavenly paradise, because after He resurrected the Lord told Mary not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father. Therefore, His spirit was down under the earth on the side of paradise in Sheol/Hades for three nights and days.

=====================================================
"Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

"But the other one rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same judgment? We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember mej when You come into Your kingdom!”

And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
====================================================

Neither the word paradise nor any other word should be used to distinctly represent one thing or place.

The word paradise was used by Paul to describe heaven, the garden of Eden was a place of paradise and the comfort side of Hades was also a place of paradise. In the same way the word 'trumpet' does not always refer to a specific trumpet event.

 

[John146]

Hi John146!

Forgive me for jumping in, but the word 'paradise' should not be pigeonholed, to represent one single place. The garden of Eden was also referred to as paradise. When the thief on the cross said to Jesus "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," Jesus said to him, "truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In the event of the rich man and Lazarus, both Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were in Sheol/Hades. However, the scripture says that there was a great chasm/gulf separating the two places. When the rich man requested to have Lazarus go back up to the earth to his father's house to warn his brothers so that they didn't come to that place, Abraham said Lazarus was comforted, i.e. in a place of paradise, where the rich man was/is in a place of torment in flame. Therefore, that one side of Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were was a place of paradise. This is where the spirits of Jesus and the thief departed to at the time of death.

In further support of this, we know that Jesus did not ascend to the Father in the heavenly paradise, because after He resurrected the Lord told Mary not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father. Therefore, His spirit was down under the earth on the side of paradise in Sheol/Hades for three nights and days.

=====================================================
"Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

"But the other one rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same judgment? We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember mej when You come into Your kingdom!”

And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
====================================================

Neither the word paradise nor any other word should be used to distinctly represent one thing or place.

The word paradise was used by Paul to describe heaven, the garden of Eden was a place of paradise and the comfort side of Hades was also a place of paradise. In the same way the word 'trumpet' does not always refer to a specific trumpet event.

Yes, I agree that’s why I believe when paradise was lost it became Abraham’s bosom in the heart of the earth and was later translated to heaven upon the resurrection of Christ to the third heaven where it resides today. Does that make sense? You may or may not agree.

 

[Phoneman-777]

On thing that is not consider here is it is not happy time in the Seven years following the " Rapture".

Hey CS1! Peter says after Jesus comes as a thief in the night ("rapture"), the Earth is pretty much gonna look like someone detonated a couple bazillion nukes.

And if there is no Rapture God is going to protect HIS people while pouring out Judgement on the earth.

God's going to protect us during the tribulation as He's both promised and demonstrated His ability to do so.

saying " The Jesus Ball" is one of the most unbiblical things I have heard said to make a point.

Well, since the "context" is the actions of "left behind" heathens, its an apt description of what might happen in the Jesuit Futurist fantasy of a "seven year tribulation".

The context of " As a thief" is not same coming "of a thief". The meaning is the event will come when you least expect it. The Bible says in Matthew 24 where Jesus is speaking they will be partying as it were in the days of Noah all the way up until the entered the Ark. This jesuit Futurism is more about the denial of " Last days " than anything it seems. This is a "Amazing Facts" position of the SDA.

Are you saying Jesus comes TWO TIMES as a thief? Please tell me you are not.

The pre-tribulational rapture has Scriptural support.

Negatory. The saints are going to be protected through the tribulation, just like Noah in the Ark, Israel in Goshen, Daniel in the Lion's Den, the Hebrews in the Furnace (I could keep going...)

Were believers destined to endure the Tribulation, Paul should have said, Wherefore scare ye one another with these words.

For someone who constantly reminds people of the "context", you've dropped the ball here, brother The context of "wherefore, comfort one another with these words" has to do with verse 13 regarding the bereaved, heartbroken Thessalonian saints whose loved ones have "fallen asleep" - it's not advice on how the saints are to cope when we go through the tribulation because such advice is unnecessary...we are promised that we'll only behold the terror, not suffer it. Paul is telling the bereaved Thessalonians to take comfort in the promise of the Resurrection of their loved ones (so, why do so many preachers comfort the bereaved at funerals with vain words like "Oh, he's walking the streets of gold..she's singing in the angelic choir..."?)

Perhaps the best proof text for the pre-tribulational rapture position is found in Revelation 3:10: Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. It should be noted that the church is not promised protection in or during the hour of trial, but protection out of it. The Tribulation saints are not promised exemption from suffering (Rev. 6:9–11; 7:9–14; 14:1–3; 15:1–3).

Is not Psalm 91 an apocalyptic Psalm depicting the tribulation and does it not promise that we will be kept from the terror? Does not Matthew 24 speak of the same things the Psalmist here does like "pestilence" and "terror" and "arrows" (warfare) and "destruction" and "plagues" (like the "Seven Last Plagues") and 'deliverance" and the "reward of the wicked" which is, of course, at the end? The promise is that we will only behold the tribulation, not suffer it. Besides, Jesus prayed the opposite of what you teach: "I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil" just like He kept Noah, Israel in Goshen, Israel in the Red Sea, Daniel, the Three Hebrews, Elisha in Dothan, the disciples on the raging Galilean Sea, etc., etc.

 

[Phoneman-777]

wrong!

sleep was only in context to those of the righteous dead 1Thess 4:13-18

Please turn to Psalm 13. Is not David praying for light - salvation - lest he "sleep" the sleep of death, the death of a lost soul? But even if you disagree, PLEASE TURN TO JEREMIAH 51:39 KJV and JEREMIAH 51:57.

I await your forthcoming apology...or a California Roll!

 

[CS1]

as you know the strawman that has been laid here is very humorous. The human reasoning what completely removes the God factor in the equation.

"Peter says after Jesus comes as a thief in the night ("rapture"), the Earth is pretty much gonna look like someone detonated a couple bazillion nukes. "

No Peter did not say that in Acts 2 you context of comes from 2Peter then I cause you to remember what is said in 2peter chapter verses 19-21

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[fn] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;

knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,[fn]

for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[fn] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Three things here:

1. We have the prophetic word confirmed
2. no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation
3. God breathed all prophecy

Now the context of 2pet chapter 1 does not end that chapter. Peter continues to speak about false teachers and deception. In Chapter 3

Peter speaks about signs "Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), "

knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,
and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”

This was question not about those who have only died in this present time it was one of all those who have died FROM The Beginning. The Beginning of what? Man existence.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[fn] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I guess some had issues with the time frame of the Lord return.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[fn]

Jesus spoke about the thief too:


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Peter says:
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


We who are alive are to be acting and waiting and occupying till HE comes.

You suggest that One is saying Jesus is coming two times as a thief is funny. Jesus came as a Child, He rose from the dead, He ascended, He appeared to Paul, In 1thess 4:13-18 Jesus is ascending to receive His saints it doesn't say HE touches the mount. of Olives.
in Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

These same white linen saints are metioned again in this same chapter Coming WITH the Lord.

19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

This is far more than the 12 or 24 elders and Where the word Saints is spoken it is the Body of Christ.

 

[CS1]

Please turn to Psalm 13. Is not David praying for light - salvation - lest he "sleep" the sleep of death, the death of a lost soul? But even if you disagree, PLEASE TURN TO JEREMIAH 51:39 KJV and JEREMIAH 51:57.

I await your forthcoming apology...or a California Roll!

please turn to what Jesus said about Lazerus , and the little girl then read 1thess 4:13-18

 

[CS1]

please turn to what Jesus said about Lazerus , and the little girl then read 1thess 4:13-18

I will not need your apology. Remember Jesus said sleep Paul said sleep and David prayed while HE was alive. Jesus is the resurrection and the Life, Yes you were dead you shall live and he who believes in me SHall Never die. FYI Whenever Jesus is speaking HE is the final authority Over David, Jeremiah, or any other.
There is a reason why every knee and tongues confess Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[Phoneman-777]

What you wrote regarding "In the Resurrection of Damnation" there is not one scripture that supports your claim of cessation of existence for the wicked.

Not one Scripture? Please take shelter, because a 10 Megaton Truth Bomb is about to hit

>Genesis 2:7 says a Soul comes into existence when the Breath of Life and Body unite. So, what happens when this union is dissolved and the Breath of Life returns to God? When you run current through a light bulb, light begins to shine...when you kill the power, does the light keep on shining...OR DOES IT CEASE TO EXIST?

>There is not a single passage that refers to an "immortal Soul"

>John says "...no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" so if he has no eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering?

>Paul says those who "seek for..immortality" will find it (Romans 2:7-9 KJV) - the wicked do not seek it and therefore are not immortalized in flames of torment.

>Paul says God "only hath immortality" which excludes me, you, Hitler, everybody. Immortality is a gift for the saints, not the wicked, who will perish in the flames, not maintain an eternal yet wretched existence in them.

>Ezekiel 28 says of the devil (personified as the King of Tyre), "...and never shalt thou BE anymore" which means "never shalt thou EXIST anymore". Will you argue the devil will absent from the flames but sinners will be there?

>Obadiah 16 says the wicked are going to "be as though they had not been" which means "...exist as though they had not existed". How much more clear can the prophet be in expressing that the wicked go out of existence?

>Jeremiah says of the wicked TWICE so that even you eternal tormentors will not miss it: "...they shall sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord" and, of course, "sleep" is a Biblical metaphor for "death".

>John says the "and the world (sinners) passeth away and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." Sinners pass away, but the righteous "abide forever".

>"...no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away" which includes sinners.

>Since you want people to live in flames, let's turn to Isaiah 33:14-16 KJV, and find out who that is going to be, shall we?

33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure.

Well, well, well...since "our God is a consuming fire", those who hold on to sin will burn up with it, while the righteous will dwell safely in the midst of His glory, having been cleansed of sin by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Phoneman-777]

please turn to what Jesus said about Lazerus , and the little girl then read 1thess 4:13-18

CS1, you claimed in Post #65 that "sleep" is used Biblically to refer to the the death of the saints and I showed you two verses in Jeremiah where he absolutely uses "sleep" in reference to the punishment of the wicked. If you're unwilling to admit your error, that's fine, but please don't accuse me of error when I've got BIBLE on my side and you don't.

 

[CS1]

CS1, you claimed in Post #65 that "sleep" is used Biblically to refer to the death of the saints and I showed you two verses in Jeremiah where he absolutely uses "sleep" in reference to the punishment of the wicked. If you're unwilling to admit your error, that's fine, but please don't accuse me of error when I've got BIBLE on my side and you don't.

it is, Jesus used it many times to describe those who were in the right relationship. the words sleep have more than one meaning in the Old Testament at least 4 to 5 of them. context is important and The verdict is still out on Jeremiah from your understanding. It is not error you have pulled one verse out of a whole chapter and trying to make it fix LOL. You do not take the context of Jeremiah and use it to discredit what Jesus said in the New. That is ridiculous.

 

[PlainWord]

CS1,

Tell that to those who have died in the faith. And You did not explain Peter and Paul who were the troubled ones LOL. You don't believe Jesus when HE said " Upon this rock, I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail".

I was speaking specifically about the promises Paul made to the Church of Thessolanika. Don't forget the same promise was made to the souls told to wait in Rev 6. God would round up all the rotten apples in the Roman Empire, AKA, the Jewish religious order in all the synagogues, who were persecuting Christians. As He said in Mat 13, First gather up all the tares to be bundled and burned, or something along those lines. The persecutors of those under the alter, all the martyrs, were gathered to Jerusalem and perished in the great tribulation or the fires that followed when Titus broke through the walls. Words have meaning and the literally way to take these passages is that this would happen to the one's responsible, the ones who killed the Son and His disciples and followers. "Vengeance is Mine, Saith the Lord, I will repay!!"

Was Jesus only speaking of the early Church? LOL. You accept HIM at some of HIS word to which you agree with or hold to your line of thinking. The suffered in vain? I guess you think that the preaching Paul did where no one was saved was a waste of time?

Paul is and was my hero, HE DID NOTHING IN VAIN.

Paul preached to Felix, Agrippa, and Ceaser guess what. We have no record of their conversion. Paul had his head taken off and you think he suffered in vain? Paul was victorious in Christ. Paul taught the Thessalonian's Faith and Trust in the Promises of God as They go through their tribulation at that time.
those who have died did not see " Their rest" on this side of heaven. The Presence of the Lord and the day of the Lord have different meanings depending on the context. And FYI Peter and Joel say the same thing yet Peter added something in Acts 2 that maybe you did not see or know in the Greek language

In a way. The presence of the Lord can come without judgment but the Lord is always present for any of His Days of the Lord. Yes, Peter cited Joel stating they (Peter and his generation) were now living in those days foretold by Joel. You left out the best part of Acts 2, start back a little sooner:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

The spirit poured out was the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!!! I sincerely hope you realize this and understand the gravity of what was happening??? Please tell me you can see that!! Peter invokes Joel because Joel's prophesy was happening right then and now!! Peter is saying WE ARE NOT DRUNK, REMEMBER WHAT JOEL SAID? They taught (shall prophesy), they saw visions and dreams. This happened in the last days - their last days!

Less move into Chapter 3 of ACTS

aFTER pETER AND jOHN HEALED THE LAME MAN pETER BEGAn to teach :

verse 13 of CHAPTER 3

WOW, THIS TIME YOU STARTED CITIING ACTS 3 TOO LATE AND MISSED THE CONTEXT AGAIN. Let me pick up right before you started quoting:

22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days.

The Prophet was JESUS!! Every soul that did not hear Jesus would be utterly destroyed from among the people. AND THEY WERE. Peter is saying basically every prophet from Samuel on down discussed the days they were living in. They certainly weren't talking about our days. They were living in the last days of their nation, their Jewish age, their age as God's Chosen nation. It was all about to end and they were going crazy about realizing it. The writer of Hebrews echoes what Paul says in Acts 3 and confirms they were in the last days.

Heb 1: God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

I hope this helps straighten out your eschatological belief system? You are looking for certain things that happened long ago.