That first quoted verse, I have no IDEA how it dropped the verse quoted. It should be 2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB) .
Not By Works
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That first quoted verse, I have no IDEA how it dropped the verse quoted. It should be 2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB) .
No, my beliefs are not like Catholicism. They're closer to Eastern Orthodox though even there there are significant differences.
Catholics still hold to a penance-like view of salvation which the reformers were correct in rejecting.
Though Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are both correct in the peculiar manner sola fide is understood by protestants has no basis in history and requires a peculiar reading of Paul that then becomes the judge of the entire Bible rather than reading the Bible for what it says.
Just look at the criteria Jesus uses for separating the goats from the sheep. He doesn't say "this one truly rested in belief" instead he says "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."(Matthew 25:34-36)
Notice how those are all works?
Catholics still hold to a penance-like view of salvation which the reformers were correct in rejecting.
Though Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are both correct in the peculiar manner sola fide is understood by protestants has no basis in history and requires a peculiar reading of Paul that then becomes the judge of the entire Bible rather than reading the Bible for what it says.
Just look at the criteria Jesus uses for separating the goats from the sheep. He doesn't say "this one truly rested in belief" instead he says "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."(Matthew 25:34-36)
Notice how those are all works?
I don't agree circumcision and animal sacrifice were necessary for salvation, no. That seems to me to be a misunderstanding of the purpose of the law, as the promises attached to that law involved God dwelling among the Israelites and keeping their kingdom strong not things like eternal life.
Eternal life has always come through faith, and faith alone. Now, that could be as Luther argued because it is faith that truly fulfills the law but I don't believe the law(as in Sinai covenant) is related to eternal life. The animal sacrifices purified the temple and its furniture so God could continue to dwell, and circumcision, the Sabbath, and Kashrut served to identify the people. They are no longer necessary not because God is saving in a different manner, but because He has moved the temple and revealed His true people.
Eternal life has always come through faith, and faith alone. Now, that could be as Luther argued because it is faith that truly fulfills the law but I don't believe the law(as in Sinai covenant) is related to eternal life. The animal sacrifices purified the temple and its furniture so God could continue to dwell, and circumcision, the Sabbath, and Kashrut served to identify the people. They are no longer necessary not because God is saving in a different manner, but because He has moved the temple and revealed His true people.
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With regards to separating sheep and goats, certainly Jesus not contradicting any other scripture.
Jesus did not preach salvation by works and then have Paul come along and preach salvation by grace through faith.
Jesus is separating the law of works (goat actions were not of grace) and the law of liberty (sheep, actions were of liberty)
The goats ...45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
No matter how much they did it was never going to be enough... it was not born out of grace.
Jesus did not preach salvation by works and then have Paul come along and preach salvation by grace through faith.
Jesus is separating the law of works (goat actions were not of grace) and the law of liberty (sheep, actions were of liberty)
The goats ...45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
No matter how much they did it was never going to be enough... it was not born out of grace.
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That's a tortured reading if I ever saw one. The primary question is not "salvation by grace through faith vs salvation by works" as such as a distinction wasn't something people made until Luther. And it comes down to how you're reading Paul not that there's any hint of contradiction.
The whole question in Matthew 25 is what the people did, as the goats failed to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Jesus' words don't contradict nor do they need to be tortured into "actions of liberty" whatever that means.
For Jesus, Paul, and James faith is not simply a matter of belief. Faith was faithfulness, demonstrated by Paul's quotation of Habakkuk in his description of faith which is clear in the Hebrew Habakkuk is not speaking of belief but having actions in accord with godliness.
If the gospel requires such a sharp distinction between justification and sanctification, why was such not discovered til the 16th century? Seems rather strange to believe that no one understood the gospel between Paul and Luther.
The whole question in Matthew 25 is what the people did, as the goats failed to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Jesus' words don't contradict nor do they need to be tortured into "actions of liberty" whatever that means.
For Jesus, Paul, and James faith is not simply a matter of belief. Faith was faithfulness, demonstrated by Paul's quotation of Habakkuk in his description of faith which is clear in the Hebrew Habakkuk is not speaking of belief but having actions in accord with godliness.
If the gospel requires such a sharp distinction between justification and sanctification, why was such not discovered til the 16th century? Seems rather strange to believe that no one understood the gospel between Paul and Luther.
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it is always and forever about 'the heart/intentions', if one believes that they are a true Christian...
pleasing our Saviour first and foremost should be 'top-priority' under any circumstance, it's our 'job'!!!
EPH 2:10.
For we are His 'work-man-ship', created in Christ Jesus unto good-works, which God has before ordained
that we should 'walk in them'.
is this 'debatable' for the debaters;???
it is written:
'If you Love Me, keep My Commandments', in other words, He is ASKING US to 'prove' our Love for Him'...
again,
MATT. 22:37.
Jesus said unto him, you shall love The Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul,
and with all your mind.
pleasing our Saviour first and foremost should be 'top-priority' under any circumstance, it's our 'job'!!!
EPH 2:10.
For we are His 'work-man-ship', created in Christ Jesus unto good-works, which God has before ordained
that we should 'walk in them'.
is this 'debatable' for the debaters;???
it is written:
'If you Love Me, keep My Commandments', in other words, He is ASKING US to 'prove' our Love for Him'...
again,
MATT. 22:37.
Jesus said unto him, you shall love The Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul,
and with all your mind.
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12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment
James 2:12-13
Salvation as a free gift "by grace through faith apart from works" is seems this is far too radical for the workers for salvation.
I am sure there were many who understood the Gospel prior to Luther and outside of the control of Roman Catholicism... just because they did not have a pen to write does not mean they were not there... ... but if they were few then all the more reason to guard the Gospel.
James 2:12-13
Salvation as a free gift "by grace through faith apart from works" is seems this is far too radical for the workers for salvation.
I am sure there were many who understood the Gospel prior to Luther and outside of the control of Roman Catholicism... just because they did not have a pen to write does not mean they were not there... ... but if they were few then all the more reason to guard the Gospel.
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Again................ any works done apart from being IN Him, will EARN this from Jesus..... "depart from me I never knew you."
Works will not sanctify, and in the end the Sheep and the Goats show that works will not even prove salvation..... God knows who are
His, are IN Him who worked IN His name.
Pedantic I know but the command is "love your neighbor as you love yourself"
Which raises the question "Who is my neighbor?
We see
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
We see here "Your people" children of your people.
So your neighbor is whom?
But we see
Luke 10:25-37
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
(Matt. 22:34–40; Mark 12:28–34)
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion.
34 So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’
36 So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
37 And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
For me given that the misinterpreted views of the Pharisees love your neighbor and hate your enemies was being addressed.
We are to be the good neighbor, just like the Samaritan who would have been considered an enemy.
He was a good neighbor and loved the injured person.
Which raises the question "Who is my neighbor?
We see
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
We see here "Your people" children of your people.
So your neighbor is whom?
But we see
Luke 10:25-37
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
(Matt. 22:34–40; Mark 12:28–34)
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion.
34 So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’
36 So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
37 And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
For me given that the misinterpreted views of the Pharisees love your neighbor and hate your enemies was being addressed.
We are to be the good neighbor, just like the Samaritan who would have been considered an enemy.
He was a good neighbor and loved the injured person.
I agree there were many who understood the gospel, and in the context of the Catholic teachings on penance and topics such as the sacrifice of the mass and deeds of merit/treasury of merit Luther was absolutely more in line with it than the Catholic church either then or now.
But the gospel is not that all are accepted into the kingdom, nor is it the Calvinist teaching of the great exchange. The gospel is not that Jesus "paid the full price for our sins." The gospel is that sins are forgiven and we have an opportunity to freely serve the King. Luther separating sanctification from justification is divorced from the complete picture of the gospel.
The difference is whether one believes Jesus was raised from the dead, or if one simply believes in the resurrection. With Luther and protestant doctrine on the gospel there is room to boast, as it's all about agreeing with the right things. In protestantism it is not the salvation of Jesus but the believers belief that is meritorious. This is insidious but it's ill effects are aparent when we see groups like Westboro pop up and view themselves as "the elect" and preach hatred of everyone else.
Believing Jesus was raised from the dead, rather than believing in such a resurrection, necessarily changes how one behaves. Garbage collecters begin collecting garbage for God, lawyers navigate the law for God, bankers bank for God. Not special works done out of piety but works none the less springing from the conviction. And their works complete their faith in the way that Jesus found the Sardians deeds incomplete.
But the gospel is not that all are accepted into the kingdom, nor is it the Calvinist teaching of the great exchange. The gospel is not that Jesus "paid the full price for our sins." The gospel is that sins are forgiven and we have an opportunity to freely serve the King. Luther separating sanctification from justification is divorced from the complete picture of the gospel.
The difference is whether one believes Jesus was raised from the dead, or if one simply believes in the resurrection. With Luther and protestant doctrine on the gospel there is room to boast, as it's all about agreeing with the right things. In protestantism it is not the salvation of Jesus but the believers belief that is meritorious. This is insidious but it's ill effects are aparent when we see groups like Westboro pop up and view themselves as "the elect" and preach hatred of everyone else.
Believing Jesus was raised from the dead, rather than believing in such a resurrection, necessarily changes how one behaves. Garbage collecters begin collecting garbage for God, lawyers navigate the law for God, bankers bank for God. Not special works done out of piety but works none the less springing from the conviction. And their works complete their faith in the way that Jesus found the Sardians deeds incomplete.
