Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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First, the burden of proof lies with the accuser or in this case the heretic.
Second, are you insinuating that these comments by Calvin teach against election? Seriously, when you read these comments by Calvin does your mind truly not comprehend what is being said?
Let me help you out: Look to me, here he addressed the Jews alone as if to them alone salvation belonged but now he extends his discourse farther. He invites the whole world to the hope of salvation and at the same time brings a charge of ingratitude to all the nations...
Second, are you insinuating that these comments by Calvin teach against election? Seriously, when you read these comments by Calvin does your mind truly not comprehend what is being said?
Let me help you out: Look to me, here he addressed the Jews alone as if to them alone salvation belonged but now he extends his discourse farther. He invites the whole world to the hope of salvation and at the same time brings a charge of ingratitude to all the nations...
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I am not merely insinuating. I am showing you what Calvin said in all honesty, but you are twisting that in ALL DISHONESTY. Which goes to show that Calvinists really don't care what Scripture actually says.
"He invites the whole world to the hope of salvation" -- John Calvin.
This one verse thoroughly refutes the false doctrine of election for salvation.
"He invites the whole world to the hope of salvation" -- John Calvin.
This one verse thoroughly refutes the false doctrine of election for salvation.
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And there can never be harmony with this..
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.”
John Calvin
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.”
John Calvin
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Agree completely, Calvin adopted the philosophy of Augustine of Hippo.
And reiterated in his writings....
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.”
John Calvin
And reiterated in his writings....
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.”
John Calvin
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I do not eulogize corrupted dead flesh and bones. A Jew is is one born again inwardly not according the flesh what the eys see. They are used to represent mankind as a whole according to the the proper theology . Some eulogize the flesh to no profit. That’s bad theology.
God puts no difference between corrupted Jewish flesh and corrupted gentile flesh By a work of his faith also called a labor of love, he working in them, with them. together do the good pleasure of God's living will .
Acts 15:8-10King James Version And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Yea getting to to root and asking for answers, what a horrible approach. I'm not a "Calvinist" BTW, so stop labeling me that please, but that is what I love, truth, strait answers, no fear when seeking the truth of any and every thing. To me sounds pretty good, and smart really, but seeing as you have me labeled completely wrong anyway, I guess you comment doesn't apply to me at all. Right?
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I know right? It's only by His power that I can even see that to stop. Especially me because I have SO MUCH I want to say. The thing is I only want that for His glory, and getting into a back and forth like I was just was does not glorify Him at all.
I am also grateful for the voice of reason from you. Thanks oldethennew, I'm glad you're here.
I am also grateful for the voice of reason from you. Thanks oldethennew, I'm glad you're here.
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Regardless of all that, Calvin HONESTLY interpreted Isaiah 45:22. He had no choice but to do that. He also honestly interpreted John 1:29. Again, he had no choice but to say exactly what it said:
JOHN CALVIN ON JOHN 1:29: ALL MEN NEED TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD
Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.
If he then failed to incorporate this truth into his false gospel, that is another matter. But we are focused on the actual interpretation of a verse which THOROUGHLY REFUTES "Unconditional Election" (election for salvation).
When a Christian is confronted with the Word of God, he or she has two options: (1) believe it for what it actually says or (2) twist it to fit your false theology or gospel. And there is no question that Calvinists twisted the truth when they created TULIP.
JOHN CALVIN ON JOHN 1:29: ALL MEN NEED TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD
Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.
If he then failed to incorporate this truth into his false gospel, that is another matter. But we are focused on the actual interpretation of a verse which THOROUGHLY REFUTES "Unconditional Election" (election for salvation).
When a Christian is confronted with the Word of God, he or she has two options: (1) believe it for what it actually says or (2) twist it to fit your false theology or gospel. And there is no question that Calvinists twisted the truth when they created TULIP.
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I am not offended, and no you were not harsh to me.
I am indifferent to the post because quite frankly I am not the one you should be apologizing to... I just made a simple point that the original post was about the dogma and was not personal to any particular person.
Movin on...
I am indifferent to the post because quite frankly I am not the one you should be apologizing to... I just made a simple point that the original post was about the dogma and was not personal to any particular person.
Movin on...
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Ok brother, I'm going to just respond to the part of this post that was to me. First off, I'm a sister...Don't know why but most people on here think I'm a man....My cross avatar must look manly, jk...lol I do agree with what you say about the labels. I grew up in between Baptist and Pentecostal churches half my family was Baptist other half Pentecostal...so you can imagine the division and arguments, I saw growing up...lol I learned to try to focus on the Lord and not take on either of those labels. I do not believe everything exactly the same as all Baptists or all Pentecostals and don't want to be held to all the belief of each and everyone who calls themselves by those labels.
That being said, I don't think I ever even heard of Calvinism before starting this site. I did have to take a religion class in college to get my degree, but it didn't get into the different denominations of Christianity.
Anyways, I am glad I never heard of limited atonement before I got saved. To me this could cause many problems. I believe that Jesus died for everyone, and God draws everyone, but it is ultimately their choice to accept or not. To me, the idea of limited atonement gives satan a vice to use when God is calling someone. The devil is deceptive and tricky just like he was in the garden. He will use anything that he can to cause people not to believe and have faith in what God has said. God has said that whosoever will may come unto him and that whosoever believes in him shall not perish. He is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. The idea of limited atonement could cause doubt and confusion. The devil could use this to cast doubt and cause someone to think that they cannot be saved because God did not choose them and will not save them.
I have met a few Calvinists on here that say that they do not preach limited atonement to the lost. I am glad about that, but I still don't understand if it is something someone should not preach to the lost then why preach it to anyone...Anyways, the Calvinistic versus non Calvinistic discussions are usually very heated. I have had many call me a liar, uneducated, simpleton, or even twists my beliefs and tell me that I believe in universalism, or that I think I saved myself. This guy would never admit it, though. He thinks that he is never in error. This is very frustrating and I have said and did somethings in the past that I am not proud of myself because of it.
I am trying not to fall into that same type of behavior that I have displayed in the past, but when it comes to limited atonement...I will have to say, I do not believe it is biblical. I think it is harmful and cannot compromise with it.
That being said, I don't think I ever even heard of Calvinism before starting this site. I did have to take a religion class in college to get my degree, but it didn't get into the different denominations of Christianity.
Anyways, I am glad I never heard of limited atonement before I got saved. To me this could cause many problems. I believe that Jesus died for everyone, and God draws everyone, but it is ultimately their choice to accept or not. To me, the idea of limited atonement gives satan a vice to use when God is calling someone. The devil is deceptive and tricky just like he was in the garden. He will use anything that he can to cause people not to believe and have faith in what God has said. God has said that whosoever will may come unto him and that whosoever believes in him shall not perish. He is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. The idea of limited atonement could cause doubt and confusion. The devil could use this to cast doubt and cause someone to think that they cannot be saved because God did not choose them and will not save them.
I have met a few Calvinists on here that say that they do not preach limited atonement to the lost. I am glad about that, but I still don't understand if it is something someone should not preach to the lost then why preach it to anyone...Anyways, the Calvinistic versus non Calvinistic discussions are usually very heated. I have had many call me a liar, uneducated, simpleton, or even twists my beliefs and tell me that I believe in universalism, or that I think I saved myself. This guy would never admit it, though. He thinks that he is never in error. This is very frustrating and I have said and did somethings in the past that I am not proud of myself because of it.
I am trying not to fall into that same type of behavior that I have displayed in the past, but when it comes to limited atonement...I will have to say, I do not believe it is biblical. I think it is harmful and cannot compromise with it.
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