Do you believe you had a choice to be physically conceived and born?
Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
- Thread starter GraceAndTruth
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Amen sister, and God has big things for you to do to spread and glorify His name. I too was saved THEN went to His word, and honestly I make this point a lot because it destroys the idea we "decide" to grab the bible one day and start following it, as I thought it had to work in my fallen mindset. I know it doesn't work like this for everyone, God does draw some in that way too of course, my wife was one He saved that way. But the ones I know that He saves like this, in my limited experience so far, He seems to light a fire in them so hot and uses them for big things.
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EleventhHour
Guest
No one has the choice to be created, however under the "Calvinist predestination" view most are denied salvation.
You are okay with that?
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EleventhHour
Guest
I’m not going to play God. I do not have the wisdom or understanding of all His Ways. My job is to preach the Gospel to all.
Forget for a second that there is plenty of Scripture that specifically says God chose us, NOT by the will of any man.
So you know you had no choice in your physical conception and birth, yet you think you had a choice in your NEW BIRTH, as NEW CREATION in Christ?
If they believe that....I would like to see the scripture that says most are denied salvation.
No one knows who God Saves...how can anyone know that?
See brother, I always say this and it's pretty clear in this conversation, but we love are catch phases and slogans so much, but I guess don't really think about what they mean??? I can say "God is sovereign", all day long and get an "Amen" from nearly everyone. Right? The second I start speaking of God as if He's sovereign it causes a dust up.
I am the first to admit that I have no clue how God sovereignty works with our wills, but there is no denying the He is in control of everything. There is no problem thinking "God knew me before I was conceived", but never stop to think about the implications that has on the "free will" of your parents, grand parents, great grand parent.... See? God grants us life, He grants us repentance, He draws us to Himself. He also does give us a choice, He did make us in His image. I can't lie the "Gods sovereignty/our choice" mystery is one of the biggest imo, but make no mistake God is in complete control of everything as His word CLEARLY states. I don't think people realize what they are trying to usurp from God when they try to claim their salvation was EARNED by "their choice". It's His glory they want some of for themselves. I know they don't see it that way but I feel God gets ALL glory for my salvation. I didn't even make the choice, in fact if I had ever believed in God before I was reborn, the day I hit my knees I did NOT at all, so the whole "choice thing" doesn't work in my case at all.
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EleventhHour
Guest
What I know is that God is not willing that any should perish... and any is any ... not the elect.
Choice is everywhere is scripture.
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EleventhHour
Guest
This sentence doesn’t make sense.
No one can fly, however bananas are yellow.
Yeah well, I am not into reams of words.
It was a faulty analogy to begin with.
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EleventhHour
Guest
You are right it is not in scripture but that is what they believe and that is why they are wrong.
There is absolutely no question that passage in Peter is the verse that people, myself included in the past, ran to when Gods sovereignty vs mans free will comes up. As well it should.
I think it was Trofimus, who I haven’t seen here lately, who had a great answer on that.
But from my perspective, and I will dig deeper when I have time, there’s something ringing in my ears having to do with this, with “ the sin of the Amorites is not yet complete “. I think the answer is tied up with that concept.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Umm no......
Did Jesus state...
All people are created they have no choice = all people will be born again and have no choice.
That is would be the correct equivocation.
That is not what Jesus is stating.
L
lenna
Guest
Now this is what I object to. This is what comes out when certain people here think they have the upper hand.
What is sad, is you are judging the hearts of other Christians. You have no business stating that those who are not Calvinists have hostility towards God. Hostility towards Calvinism (which is not really Calvinism at all as has been shown) you betcha! However, that seems to equate or create equality between that doctrine and God and that is approaching something blasphemous. No doctrine IS God and people disagree and have disagreed for centuries.
I am neither Calvinist or Armenian but I have never read of nor heard any person of any flavor of Christianity (and God having much patience knows there are many) say they were somehow not at enmity with God prior to accepting Christ.
No. Sadly that is just you being a billboard for the intolerance, cruelty and injustice certain hyper Calvinists seem to adhere to. This intolerance is born not of a desire to defend the gospel, but rather a smug and self righteous spirit which seems to actually go along with traits one can find in the character of one Mr Calvin if said individual is represented with correct historical reference, but we just need to look at your post and not go digging for more evidence of the spirit of hyper Calvinism.
You misrepresent both the gospel and Christians here. I don't care what you say or teach, but when you start trying to assassinate the characters of others and vilify people who have a genuine love for their Savior, you put yourself in another category.
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EleventhHour
Guest
There are many verses, that is the one that came to mind.
And God's true sovereignty includes Him giving choice... not Him being a puppet master.
I've noticed one thing in this conversation that the "anti-Calvinist" keep doing that I think is dead wrong, and something I don't see the "Calvinist" ever defend either, is that if God is sovereign in the way the word it defined, that this completely eliminates human choice in the time/space world we live in. Like if I believe in predestination *(that the bible CLEARLY teaches BTW) that means I never make a decision and God just puppets us all and throws some in the toy box and others in the fire. I don't know about you, but I know my God and I KNOW He's good, I have no clue why some are created for destruction, I even believe we can choose, but what I don't believe is that God cast anyone away that want Him, what the reality is behind how that works behind the scenes is above my pay grade, but I do know who gives me every breath.
So what's with this false idea the if God is sovereign that ='s we make no choices? I just don't think that follows in any real solid way.
So what's with this false idea the if God is sovereign that ='s we make no choices? I just don't think that follows in any real solid way.
How can they believe that..if it’s not in scripture?
Therefore it is man made...which has no standing up against the word of God!
Only God’s word stands.
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