The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[PlainWord]

When I wrote the following portions... especially (for example) where I pointed out the 70ad events in the MATTHEW 22:7 verse (and its v.2 context--see bottom of post, which I had posted alongside the other [related] passages I listed),





...[so...] where Matthew 22:2 [the context for v.7 ^ ] sets it up by saying, “The kingdom of the heavens is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son"...


...just who are these ^ that you think *I WAS THINKING* that this [all ^ ] is speaking of, Barney Rubble and Bamm-Bamm?? lol

It is good that you were able to link the 70 AD events with the Parable of the Wedding Feast. However, we aren't talking about the events of 70 AD right now. We are talking about the events of the 6th century BC as they relate to the destruction of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom. The question I would like answered, again, is:

Was God present for these 4 destructions and did He use a foreign invading army in each case???? If you don't know, perhaps read the passages I cited previously. If you still don't know, please just say you still do not know.

 

[PlainWord]

Back To Chaos?

Small and large caps, brackets, underline, three different colors?

By using this technique, he is able to dodge the questions. Perhaps you would like to take a crack at this???

Was God present during the fall of Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26), the fall of Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9), the fall of Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13), and the fall of Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5)? By present, I don't mean He is omnipresent, we all know that. I mean was His presence there in each case carrying out judgment?

And in each instance of these great slaughters at the fall of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom in the sixth century B.C., did the Lord used an invading foreign army to carry out His judgment?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

By using this technique, he is able to dodge the questions. Perhaps you would like to take a crack at this???

No, I'm just astounded that [to me] it appears you've not bothered to even read my posts ['what I just said']...

Yesterday at 9:32 AM #2,286 TDW : IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"

(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction" (note the connection btwn "Neb" as "head of gold" and the far-future "ten toes" of the same "dream/statue/image"--this being what the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is referring to, distinct from [...])

PlainWord: ...to carry out His judgment?

"Who" do you think *I am saying* was in charge (i.e. 'carrying out HIS JUDGMENT') where my example was [His using] THE BABYLONIANS (i.e. WAY BACK THEN!! which was YOUR QUESTION! )

"THOU hast established [the Babylonians] AS JUDGMENT [HIS JUDGMENT], and... hast established [the Babylonians] for CORRECTION"

... how are you thinking *I am saying* He was IN NO WAY *involved* in this JUDGMENT?? Is that how you "read" what I put?

... or was it that you just did not care to bother actually *reading* my direct RESPONSE I SUPPLIED, to your question??




Hmm. It's beginning to dawn on me, this fine morning...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

However, we aren't talking about the events of 70 AD right now. We are talking about the events of the 6th century BC as they relate to the destruction of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom. The question I would like answered, again, is:
Was God present for these 4 destructions and did He use a foreign invading army in each case???? If you don't know, perhaps read the passages I cited previously. If you still don't know, please just say you still do not know.

Oh, believe me, I *have* answered it "AGAIN."

[see Post #2303, above this one, where I quote a small portion of my Post of yesterday morning's string of posts I put, as response... Today, my fingers are dead... I ain't doing more elaborating today ]

 

[Absolutely]

See there, you gave total (Disregard) to my claim that no man knows the day or hour, as you pretend like it didn't exist, it's posted again.

The ten Virgin parable is also about the "Second Coming" and no man knows the day or hour, as you falsely claim this is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions being left behind on earth knowing the day and hour.

Matthew 25:10-13KJV
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Yes
No man knows the day or hour.

Next

 

[garee]

Yes
No man knows the day or hour.

Next

Yes it like "why marvel"? We walk by faith We can watch like Noah but when it comes the end is here.

 

[Absolutely]

When Jesus comes, it is the end of this world as we know it - Peter says when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, everything will burn up and there won’t even be an atmosphere in which planes continue to fly, water in which ships voyage, or buildings in which people dwell. It won’t sustain life for 7 minutes, let alone 7 more years, right?

In rev 14 he comes on a cloud and gathers ripe fruit.

In 1 the 4 he does something similar

After the trib he comes SOLELY to conquer. No rapture after the trib.

No removal after the flood
No removal post sodom

No CONQUORING king at the rapture,the ripe fruit of rev 14,the 144k of rev 14,the one taken of mat 24,the 5 virgins of mat 25,or with lot or Noah.

No horses,no army,no conquoring king,no retaking the land.

All the catching away is pre judgement except rev 14.

There is ZERO examples or instances of post judgement catching away.

The Only Exceptions are exodus (removal into testing,judgement,wandering,and thinning of the heard. Removal and basically cursed)
...and two other ot examples.

There is zero traction for any postrib removal.

The only "sorta deal" that might be more or less remade into a postrib gathering is the end of rev 14 ...a gathering straight to the winepress.


I mean what a slam dunk.

The bible OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTS a pretrib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

100% Correct, when Jesus Christ appears immediately after the tribulation it's the end, fire time!

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

We both agree he comes back postrib

Next

 

[Absolutely]

Josephus was a 4 time married adulterous Jewish traitor, who turned against his Jewish people

He was a propaganda priest for Rome and it's emperor's, rewarded with wives and the emperor's wealth.

You quote Josephus as if he was an anointed Apostle of God, sad!

Character assasination is to be used sparingly.

Otherwise king david is also a target and disenfranchised as well

 

[Absolutely]

Paul says the church is to “come behind in no gift waiting for the coming of the Lord” - one of the gifts to the church is that of prophecy.

Also, the church that Jesus returns to take home is the “remnant church” which means the “last” church and Revelation 12:17 says that church (a woman in prophecy represents a church - Jeremiah 6:2; Isaiah 51:16) has the “testimony of Jesus Christ” which is “the Spirit of Prophecy” according to Revelation 12:17.

The covenant Jew comes in last. Rev 14 is the jewish gathering close to the end of the gt.

The gentile bride is taken first.
Then "Jacob's trouble" ...the focus of the gt is a line in the sand for the jew.

Jacob's trouble. A terrible time.
But it is for the jewish gathering.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE ""There's just one problem with that theory: you're forgetting that the 1,000 years are bookended by the two resurrections, according to Revelation.""

Which is why he runs Everyting together.

All to make the GWTJ into the rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

I don't accept or reject a spiritual proposition based on who teaches, but based on whether it stands the test of Biblical scrutiny. Doesn't Psalms 7:6-11 says that God judges the righteous while being angry at the wicked along with an allusion to the "Day of Atonement" which all understand was the end of the year "Judgment" of Israel? Does not the Bible say that God "trieth" the righteous while at the same time hating the wickedness of men (Psalm 11:5-6)? It is from this word "bacham" that the word "trial" is derived. Judgment must first begin at the house of God, right? Also, Jesus is coming "with" His reward, which means the rewards have to be determined by trials before He comes. Daniel says Jesus comes before the Ancient of Days and the "Judgment was set an the books were opened" and this Judgment takes place while the Little Horn is still running his mouth, so that is before the 2nd Coming. Many more verses that teach of this Judgment.
There's just one problem with that theory: you're forgetting that the 1,000 years are bookended by the two resurrections, according to Revelation.
There are only two resurrections, the one that takes place at the 2nd Coming and the resurrection of the wicked 1,000 years later...so in that way "all" will be resurrected, but not at the same time.

That is Exactly the pretrib rapture position.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

See there, you gave total (Disregard) to my claim that no man knows the day or hour, as you pretend like it didn't exist, it's posted again.
The ten Virgin parable is also about the "Second Coming" and no man knows the day or hour, as you falsely claim this is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions being left behind on earth knowing the day and hour.

Matthew 25:10-13KJV
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know [perfect indicative] neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I have a slightly different viewpoint from "Abs" (though I am pre-trib as I think he is also)... which I've posted on before, so won't make that big long post right now... but just enough to say:

I do NOT believe Jesus STILL "does not know"... I believe He has known ever since His resurrection/ascension/exaltation [32ad], and has disclosed FUTHER INFORMATION, on THAT Subject, in the [LATER] 95ad "[The] Revelation," which is what Rev1:1 is saying, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass [comp 1:19c / 4:1] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (i.e. not over the course of some 2000 yrs, but IN QUICKNESS [NOUN], i.e. the FUTURE 7-yr trib yrs leading UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth [so INCLUDING THAT], which is the SUBJECT of the Matt24:36 / Matt25:13 / [etc] words).

--"know" in these verses (on that Subject, where found) is in the "PERFECT indicative" (it is NOT saying "no one WILL EVER KNOW," see )

--the Subject being spoken of is in regard to His Second Coming to the earth (not "our Rapture"), per contexts

--the passages are not saying, "no one CAN/WILL *ever* know" (etc); Jesus Himself disclosed the "FURTHER INFORMATION" on that Subject, in "[The] Revelation," and this is what the SEQUENCE between Matt22:7 [70ad events] and Matt22:8's "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" (which "SAITH" necessarily came AFTER the 70ad events [when He was UP IN HEAVEN]), and this is what we see being disclosed per the Rev1:1 wording (ABOUT that FUTURE time-period that immediately precedes His "RETURN" to the earth... with its time-stamps and timing-indicators strewn all throughout it... IOW, He now knows [ever since His ascension / exaltation] and has disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT Subject in the Revelation... so that those who find themselves in that future time-period [the (7) trib yrs] CAN come to know, *IF* they will but heed His Word [...some will, and some will not heed His Word... as Scripture itself informs they will do])

 

[PlainWord]

Oh, believe me, I *have* answered it "AGAIN."

[see Post #2303, above this one, where I quote a small portion of my Post of yesterday morning's string of posts I put, as response... Today, my fingers are dead... I ain't doing more elaborating today ]

Okay you said God was involved with the destruction of Babylon, but was His presence literally there? I will assume your view on the Babylonian destruction would be the same for 6th century BC Judah, Edom and Egypt as well, right? I am trying to establish a pattern as I'm sure you know, but seems like you want to resist seeing it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is good that you were able to link the 70 AD events with the Parable of the Wedding Feast. However, [...]

[since we're on the Subject ^ , briefly ]

...HOWEVER, it doesn't appear you grasp "the rest of the story" which I just put in Post #2313 (about the Matthew 22... Matt22:7 [70ad events] and then the LATER 22:8 ["THEN SAITH HE to his servants"] CHRONOLOGY/SEQUENCE issues... I spelled out briefly in that post)


[for the readers, WE are not the "10 Virgins [PLURAL]"]

 

[Absolutely]

[since we're on the Subject ^ , briefly ]

...HOWEVER, it doesn't appear you grasp "the rest of the story" which I just put in Post #2313 (about the Matthew 22... Matt22:7 [70ad events] and then the LATER 22:8 ["THEN SAITH HE to his servants"] CHRONOLOGY/SEQUENCE issues... I spelled out briefly in that post)


[for the readers, WE are not the "10 Virgins [PLURAL]"]

Jesus comes back for the wise virgins.
They are watching and waiting for Him
The 5 are ready
He takes the worthy ones to the wedding chamber.
The rapture depiction is vivid
So you are wrong.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I will assume your view on the Babylonian destruction would be the same for 6th century BC Judah, Edom and Egypt as well, right? I am trying to establish a pattern as I'm sure you know, but seems like you want to resist seeing it.

So am I. ; )

And so are you, it seems.

lol






[for the readers... since my fingers are all typed out ... read here (for example): https://biblehub.com/bsb/jeremiah/25.htm ]

 

[PlainWord]

[since we're on the Subject ^ , briefly ]

...HOWEVER, it doesn't appear you grasp "the rest of the story" which I just put in Post #2313 (about the Matthew 22... Matt22:7 [70ad events] and then the LATER 22:8 ["THEN SAITH HE to his servants"] CHRONOLOGY/SEQUENCE issues... I spelled out briefly in that post)


[for the readers, WE are not the "10 Virgins [PLURAL]"]

We are not on the subject of 70 AD yet. Let's stick with 6th C BC until we understand your views.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus comes back for the wise virgins.
They are watching and waiting for Him
The 5 are ready
He takes the worthy ones to the wedding chamber.
The rapture depiction is vivid
So you are wrong.

For the record (again), and for the readers who may not have been here back when you and I discussed this in the past:

--Jesus is NOT coming to MARRY 10 or 5 VirginS [PLURAL]--these are who [will go] "[/went] in with [G3326 - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [aka the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN there (Rev19), like Lk12:36-37,38,40 says "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ... THEN the meal (G347)]

--THIS "with [G3326]" word being DISTINCT FROM the "WITH [G4862]" word that pertains to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us) and Christ (re: the MARRIAGE itself)


That's all I wanna type out atm... weary fingers at the present

 

[KJV1611]

Here's the passage. Others were present but only Nero was named.

As construction of the canal in Greece began, Cassius Dio writes, “[W]hen the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared. Nero himself thereupon grasped a mattock and by throwing up some of the soil fairly compelled the rest to imitate him.” Recording this event, Suetonius indicates that as Nero broke the ground, the sound of a trumpet was heard. The fact that a trumpet was heard at the time in which the dead appear to have been raised literally fulfills 1 Corinthians 15:52: “For the trumpet will sound, [and] the dead will be raised imperishable. . . .” Cassius Dio Roman History 63.22

So basically this whole idea comes from the account of one person, Cassius Dio a Roman historian. For me, that doesn't even come close to enough evidence that the resurrection took place in 70 AD especially in light of all the biblical evidence that it took place at the resurrection of Christ.