Not By Works
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Well...... as far as I can tell they did not have ears to hear with. But more prominently I believe that there was a rejection of the person of Jesus Christ Himself, as well as finding the cross offensive.
When I see outright rejection, those are the two things I see most often. Its as if seed was literally bouncing off the hard ground. Really that's what it seems like to me. God willing He would put into the hearts of these people the memory of that preaching one day that they might be redeemed I pray this in Jesus' precious Name.
When I see outright rejection, those are the two things I see most often. Its as if seed was literally bouncing off the hard ground. Really that's what it seems like to me. God willing He would put into the hearts of these people the memory of that preaching one day that they might be redeemed I pray this in Jesus' precious Name.
I did. It still says those who received Him were born of God. John could not have written this any clearer than he did.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:12-13]
Those who were born of God received Him. Those who received Him were born of God. Clear as crystal.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:12-13]
Those who were born of God received Him. Those who received Him were born of God. Clear as crystal.
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I am sorry that I got quite short with you.
You have my permission that if you want to know what exacty OSAS Theology teaches, I will be happy to answer you, Truthfully, and if I do not KNOW, I will ask my Pastor to explain. That way you don't make inadvertent statements that are untrue, and we keep the PEACE.
.
I know our Theology brands are different, but I also have been able to just AGREE TO DISAGREE, a go on with Christian lives.
You see, I happen to believe that the ONLY SIN that anyone goes to hell for, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is rejecting what the Holy Spirit is trying to get one to believe the Truth about Christ paying for our SINS.
I have figured out Difference between your Theology, and my Theology. The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it is CRITICAL.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body— {That would include the Thief on the Cross, where baptism in water does not.} whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
John 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. {Notice, Born Again does not happen to the Body.}
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
That is the definition of Born Again, the moment we Come Threw the Narrow Gate. Sanctification happens to the Body After Salvation, and takes a lifetime, and we will not be PERFECT until the Ressurection. No, I do not think you will agree with me, but we Believe OBEDIENCE is part of Agape LOVE, which all happens after Sal.
I very much appreciate your olive branch and would like to come to the place where we at least understand each other, agreeing to disagree as it were. In an exchange of few words as we do here this is not always easy.
I appreciate you expressing what you think I believe so I can correct it. Again, I know you won’t agree with me but it’s better if you know what you don’t agree with. I will use fairly normal language not Christianese although I know the terms quite well.
Your explanation of my theology is not correct. You said,
“The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation.”
I don’t count disciples as those baptized and on the road to salvation. I count the saved as those who have had the experience of having their sins forgiven through the blood of Christ and chosen to be a disciple of Christ. The Bible speaks of being saved and future tense will be saved. I, myself, think that are those who you know are saved, having been forgiven of committee sins and are going forward with Christ to varying degrees, those you know are unsaved, and those you don’t know at all by observing their life.
Can you answer how you or your church deals with those do claim to be saved having, say, the experience Magenta had, but as she did, not manifesting the fruit of the Spirit (for a time) as you describe below and how this is not judging or requiring works?
You wrote, “Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer.”. Love, agape or otherwise, is also a fruit and how do you detect it? Again, if it’s not there what do you think and do?
I was surprised you mention that obedience follows salvation as something I don’t agree with. This is a big misunderstanding. Of course the unsaved don’t go around obeying God. This is obvious. Obedience does not come before salvation, but how often do we hear encouragement to obey God after salvation?
What I said is that unless we obey God, we will not understand Him. How many Christians say openly that they don’t understand God? Doesn’t mean they’re not saved. But it does mean their relationship is not very intimate. One cannot have an intimate relationship by having that a statement in a church doctrine that claims everyone does. An intimate relationship with anyone means you understand them.
God doesn’t reveal Himself to those who refuse to obey Him. “God hides from the wise and intelligent and reveals himself to babes.” Jesus said those who keep his teaching are those who he comes and dwells in. I know that sounds like works salvation but I didn’t claim it, Jesus did. We would be wise to know what he meant. I do know and it’s not works salvation at all. It’s intimacy with God.
Do you in OSAS believe we can refuse to obey God?
My understanding of the difference between my theology and yours is that you don’t believe a person can ever change their mind about following Christ once becoming a genuine believer by the definition we both know and I believe any believer can change their mind for the reasons Jesus described (difficulties or temptations.)
Does your church teach the only work we need to do is believe? It’s a tricky one, this only believe and nothing added to it but then add “if you believe you will manifest works we see” and not introduce law at that point.
I think the way out is to encourage obedience to God Himself. This has been my whole point all along. Those who hunger to know Him must obey Him when He gives them works they need to do. This is not a path to salvation as he only does this in the lives of those already saved. This is walking with God on a deeper level than is commonly taught and lived.
Well VCO, there are a few questions there I’d be interested in your response to. Please feel free to ask me questions in return. No questions are anything but genuine. Not trying to trick anyone. His blessings upon you, D
You have my permission that if you want to know what exacty OSAS Theology teaches, I will be happy to answer you, Truthfully, and if I do not KNOW, I will ask my Pastor to explain. That way you don't make inadvertent statements that are untrue, and we keep the PEACE.
.I know our Theology brands are different, but I also have been able to just AGREE TO DISAGREE, a go on with Christian lives.
You see, I happen to believe that the ONLY SIN that anyone goes to hell for, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is rejecting what the Holy Spirit is trying to get one to believe the Truth about Christ paying for our SINS.
I have figured out Difference between your Theology, and my Theology. The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it is CRITICAL.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body— {That would include the Thief on the Cross, where baptism in water does not.} whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
John 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. {Notice, Born Again does not happen to the Body.}
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
That is the definition of Born Again, the moment we Come Threw the Narrow Gate. Sanctification happens to the Body After Salvation, and takes a lifetime, and we will not be PERFECT until the Ressurection. No, I do not think you will agree with me, but we Believe OBEDIENCE is part of Agape LOVE, which all happens after Sal.
I am sorry that I got quite short with you.
You have my permission that if you want to know what exacty OSAS Theology teaches, I will be happy to answer you, Truthfully, and if I do not KNOW, I will ask my Pastor to explain. That way you don't make inadvertent statements that are untrue, and we keep the PEACE..
I know our Theology brands are different, but I also have been able to just AGREE TO DISAGREE, a go on with Christian lives.
You see, I happen to believe that the ONLY SIN that anyone goes to hell for, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is rejecting what the Holy Spirit is trying to get one to believe the Truth about Christ paying for our SINS.
I have figured out Difference between your Theology, and my Theology. The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it isn. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it is CRITICAL.
That is the definition of Born Again, the moment we Come Threw the Narrow Gate. Sanctification happens to the Body After Salvation, and takes a lifetime, and we will not be PERFECT until the Ressurection. No, I do not think you will agree with me, but we Believe OBEDIENCE is part of Agape LOVE, which all happens after Salvation, and never has been part of SALVATION.
MAGENTA, will be happy for the last two Paragraphs were in magenta.
You have my permission that if you want to know what exacty OSAS Theology teaches, I will be happy to answer you, Truthfully, and if I do not KNOW, I will ask my Pastor to explain. That way you don't make inadvertent statements that are untrue, and we keep the PEACE.
.I know our Theology brands are different, but I also have been able to just AGREE TO DISAGREE, a go on with Christian lives.
You see, I happen to believe that the ONLY SIN that anyone goes to hell for, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is rejecting what the Holy Spirit is trying to get one to believe the Truth about Christ paying for our SINS.
I have figured out Difference between your Theology, and my Theology. The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it isn. Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer. I am not sure how much regard this verse, be we OSAS Believers think it is CRITICAL.
That is the definition of Born Again, the moment we Come Threw the Narrow Gate. Sanctification happens to the Body After Salvation, and takes a lifetime, and we will not be PERFECT until the Ressurection. No, I do not think you will agree with me, but we Believe OBEDIENCE is part of Agape LOVE, which all happens after Salvation, and never has been part of SALVATION.
MAGENTA, will be happy for the last two Paragraphs were in magenta.
I appreciate you expressing what you think I believe so I can correct it. Again, I know you won’t agree with me but it’s better if you know what you don’t agree with. I will use fairly normal language not Christianese although I know the terms quite well.
Your explanation of my theology is not correct. You said,
“The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation.”
I don’t count disciples as those baptized and on the road to salvation. I count the saved as those who have had the experience of having their sins forgiven through the blood of Christ and chosen to be a disciple of Christ. The Bible speaks of being saved and future tense will be saved. I, myself, think that are those who you know are saved, having been forgiven of committee sins and are going forward with Christ to varying degrees, those you know are unsaved, and those you don’t know at all by observing their life.
Can you answer how you or your church deals with those do claim to be saved having, say, the experience Magenta had, but as she did, not manifesting the fruit of the Spirit (for a time) as you describe below and how this is not judging or requiring works?
You wrote, “Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer.”. Love, agape or otherwise, is also a fruit and how do you detect it? Again, if it’s not there what do you think and do?
I was surprised you mention that obedience follows salvation as something I don’t agree with. This is a big misunderstanding. Of course the unsaved don’t go around obeying God. This is obvious. Obedience does not come before salvation, but how often do we hear encouragement to obey God after salvation?
What I said is that unless we obey God, we will not understand Him. How many Christians say openly that they don’t understand God? Doesn’t mean they’re not saved. But it does mean their relationship is not very intimate. One cannot have an intimate relationship by having that a statement in a church doctrine that claims everyone does. An intimate relationship with anyone means you understand them.
God doesn’t reveal Himself to those who refuse to obey Him. “God hides from the wise and intelligent and reveals himself to babes.” Jesus said those who keep his teaching are those who he comes and dwells in. I know that sounds like works salvation but I didn’t claim it, Jesus did. We would be wise to know what he meant. I do know and it’s not works salvation at all. It’s intimacy with God.
Do you in OSAS believe we can refuse to obey God?
My understanding of the difference between my theology and yours is that you don’t believe a person can ever change their mind about following Christ once becoming a genuine believer by the definition we both know and I believe any believer can change their mind for the reasons Jesus described (difficulties or temptations.)
Does your church teach the only work we need to do is believe? It’s a tricky one, this only believe and nothing added to it but then add “if you believe you will manifest works we see” and not introduce law at that point.
I think the way out is to encourage obedience to God Himself. This has been my whole point all along. Those who hunger to know Him must obey Him when He gives them works they need to do. This is not a path to salvation as he only does this in the lives of those already saved. This is walking with God on a deeper level than is commonly taught and lived.
Well VCO, there are a few questions there I’d be interested in your response to. Please feel free to ask me questions in return. No questions are anything but genuine. Not trying to trick anyone. His blessings upon you, D
E
VCO,
I’ve copied and pasted a version without the mess to make it easier.
I very much appreciate your olive branch and would like to come to the place where we at least understand each other, agreeing to disagree as it were. In an exchange of few words as we do here this is not always easy.
I appreciate you expressing what you think I believe so I can correct it. Again, I know you won’t agree with me but it’s better if you know what you don’t agree with. I will use fairly normal language not Christianese although I know the terms quite well.
Your explanation of my theology is not correct. You said,
“The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation.”
I don’t count disciples as those baptized and on the road to salvation. I count the saved as those who have had the experience of having their sins forgiven through the blood of Christ and chosen to be a disciple of Christ. The Bible speaks of being saved and future tense will be saved. I, myself, think that are those who you know are saved, having been forgiven of committee sins and are going forward with Christ to varying degrees, those you know are unsaved, and those you don’t know at all by observing their life.
Can you answer how you or your church deals with those do claim to be saved having, say, the experience Magenta had, but as she did, not manifesting the fruit of the Spirit (for a time) as you describe below and how this is not judging or requiring works?
You wrote, “Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer.”. Love, agape or otherwise, is also a fruit and how do you detect it? Again, if it’s not there what do you think and do?
I was surprised you mention that obedience follows salvation as something I don’t agree with. This is a big misunderstanding. Of course the unsaved don’t go around obeying God. This is obvious. Obedience does not come before salvation, but how often do we hear encouragement to obey God after salvation?
What I said is that unless we obey God, we will not understand Him. How many Christians say openly that they don’t understand God? Doesn’t mean they’re not saved. But it does mean their relationship is not very intimate. One cannot have an intimate relationship by having that a statement in a church doctrine that claims everyone does. An intimate relationship with anyone means you understand them.
God doesn’t reveal Himself to those who refuse to obey Him. “God hides from the wise and intelligent and reveals himself to babes.” Jesus said those who keep his teaching are those who he comes and dwells in. I know that sounds like works salvation but I didn’t claim it, Jesus did. We would be wise to know what he meant. I do know and it’s not works salvation at all. It’s intimacy with God.
Do you in OSAS believe we can refuse to obey God?
My understanding of the difference between my theology and yours is that you don’t believe a person can ever change their mind about following Christ once becoming a genuine believer by the definition we both know and I believe any believer can change their mind for the reasons Jesus described (difficulties or temptations.)
Does your church teach the only work we need to do is believe? It’s a tricky one, this only believe and nothing added to it but then add “if you believe you will manifest works we see” and not introduce law at that point.
I think the way out is to encourage obedience to God Himself. This has been my whole point all along. Those who hunger to know Him must obey Him when He gives them works they need to do. This is not a path to salvation as he only does this in the lives of those already saved. This is walking with God on a deeper level than is commonly taught and lived.
Well VCO, there are a few questions there I’d be interested in your response to. Please feel free to ask me questions in return. No questions are anything but genuine. Not trying to trick anyone. His blessings upon you, D
I’ve copied and pasted a version without the mess to make it easier.
I very much appreciate your olive branch and would like to come to the place where we at least understand each other, agreeing to disagree as it were. In an exchange of few words as we do here this is not always easy.
I appreciate you expressing what you think I believe so I can correct it. Again, I know you won’t agree with me but it’s better if you know what you don’t agree with. I will use fairly normal language not Christianese although I know the terms quite well.
Your explanation of my theology is not correct. You said,
“The main difference, is you count every baptized Disciples who Follows CHRIST as being on the road to Salvation.”
I don’t count disciples as those baptized and on the road to salvation. I count the saved as those who have had the experience of having their sins forgiven through the blood of Christ and chosen to be a disciple of Christ. The Bible speaks of being saved and future tense will be saved. I, myself, think that are those who you know are saved, having been forgiven of committee sins and are going forward with Christ to varying degrees, those you know are unsaved, and those you don’t know at all by observing their life.
Can you answer how you or your church deals with those do claim to be saved having, say, the experience Magenta had, but as she did, not manifesting the fruit of the Spirit (for a time) as you describe below and how this is not judging or requiring works?
You wrote, “Where as OSAS Believers only count those manifesting the FRUIT of the Spirit, as be a genuine Born Again Believer.”. Love, agape or otherwise, is also a fruit and how do you detect it? Again, if it’s not there what do you think and do?
I was surprised you mention that obedience follows salvation as something I don’t agree with. This is a big misunderstanding. Of course the unsaved don’t go around obeying God. This is obvious. Obedience does not come before salvation, but how often do we hear encouragement to obey God after salvation?
What I said is that unless we obey God, we will not understand Him. How many Christians say openly that they don’t understand God? Doesn’t mean they’re not saved. But it does mean their relationship is not very intimate. One cannot have an intimate relationship by having that a statement in a church doctrine that claims everyone does. An intimate relationship with anyone means you understand them.
God doesn’t reveal Himself to those who refuse to obey Him. “God hides from the wise and intelligent and reveals himself to babes.” Jesus said those who keep his teaching are those who he comes and dwells in. I know that sounds like works salvation but I didn’t claim it, Jesus did. We would be wise to know what he meant. I do know and it’s not works salvation at all. It’s intimacy with God.
Do you in OSAS believe we can refuse to obey God?
My understanding of the difference between my theology and yours is that you don’t believe a person can ever change their mind about following Christ once becoming a genuine believer by the definition we both know and I believe any believer can change their mind for the reasons Jesus described (difficulties or temptations.)
Does your church teach the only work we need to do is believe? It’s a tricky one, this only believe and nothing added to it but then add “if you believe you will manifest works we see” and not introduce law at that point.
I think the way out is to encourage obedience to God Himself. This has been my whole point all along. Those who hunger to know Him must obey Him when He gives them works they need to do. This is not a path to salvation as he only does this in the lives of those already saved. This is walking with God on a deeper level than is commonly taught and lived.
Well VCO, there are a few questions there I’d be interested in your response to. Please feel free to ask me questions in return. No questions are anything but genuine. Not trying to trick anyone. His blessings upon you, D
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Again, you’re standing that on its head. Verse 13 qualifies who those are who received Him. Those who received Him were(past tense, already done) born of Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:12-13]
Who were the ones who received Him?
The ones born of blood? No.
The ones of the will of the flesh? No.
The ones of the will of man? No.
Those born of God? Yahtzee!
The ones born of God received the Christ. John couldn’t be any clearer in this if he tried.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:12-13]
Who were the ones who received Him?
The ones born of blood? No.
The ones of the will of the flesh? No.
The ones of the will of man? No.
Those born of God? Yahtzee!
The ones born of God received the Christ. John couldn’t be any clearer in this if he tried.
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I believe those born of God...automatically receive him.....like I have explained a few times...I found the Holy Spirit irresistible..(not in a dirty way).
I became born again without a bible........I have the NIV bible.....I knew straight away when I received the Holy Spirit..that I was born again...I belonged to God,I was his child...
My sin was removed,I felt as light as a feather....that’s my testimony..I fell in Love with God,there and then...instantly..have been in Love with him ever since....nothing can part him from me......
Once one is saved....that is when obedience follows...you learn to be obedient to God..he teaches you.
Until we are born again we aren’t recognised by God?
Only on saving can we please God?
When one is saved,we then start our walk with the Holy Spirit.....coming out of sin / darkness,into a relationship with God.
I also believe greatly that we should bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit....once we are saved.....then we see Jesus in that born again....not ourselves but Jesus..shining from within us.outwardly.
Walking in the Spirit takes time,because the flesh gets in the way..it’s like a constant battle..spirit v flesh.
Submitting more to the Spirit and less of the flesh.
What about when we lose it...isn’t that of the flesh?
Until we are born again we aren’t recognised by God?
Only on saving can we please God?
When one is saved,we then start our walk with the Holy Spirit.....coming out of sin / darkness,into a relationship with God.
I also believe greatly that we should bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit....once we are saved.....then we see Jesus in that born again....not ourselves but Jesus..shining from within us.outwardly.
Walking in the Spirit takes time,because the flesh gets in the way..it’s like a constant battle..spirit v flesh.
Submitting more to the Spirit and less of the flesh.
What about when we lose it...isn’t that of the flesh?
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"For whoever would love life and see good days must keep their tongue from evil and their lips from deceitful speech. They must turn from evil and do good; they must seek peace and pursue it." - 1 Peter 3:10-11
"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." - Hebrews 12:14
"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere." - James 3:17
"Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness." - James 3:18
verses about peace
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I agree, it’s not in a dirty way. When I used Genesis 4:1, some took the ball and ran with it. Just as Adam and Eve had an intimate encounter, I meant to show that their marriage is an intimate relationship. Just like our marriage to the Lamb. It’s an intimate relationship. No, there isn’t any intercourse at all, but there is intimacy as He gives us His love and we reciprocate that love to Him. We are His bride, the bride of the Lamb.
I noticed you never said forced. He doesn’t force it on us. Look at it like this. You are in public when you have a massive heart attack. You’re on the ground when someone sees you. Do they stand over you and say, “Get up! Get up! Come on! Make a decision to stand on your feet!“ Can you do this they are saying for you to do? Of course not. Why? You’re dead. They have to then get down and do CPR. Then, and only then, can you get up. And I know it’s several days after being in the hospital you finally go home.
Many can shoot holes in that story, as any we tell aren’t perfect. The point is dead ppl, no matter how many times they hear the gospel, unless God moves unilaterally to give them life, they can never truly hear it and be saved. They, in their fallen state, automatically reject it. Why? It’s foolishness unto them. They can also not understand the things of the Spirit. Why? They’re spiritually appraised.
Look at Ezekiel 37:1-11. He sees a valley of bones, dry and very dry. They were beyond hope of ever living again in that condition. God asks Ezekiel, “Son of man, can these bones live?” He gives him a prudent answer, “O Lord GOD, You know.” He is then told to “Prophesy over these bones and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.’” Wait, these bones are dead. They don’t even have ears to hear with. God won’t command ppl to do that He knows they can’t do, will He? He did right there. He then said ”Behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life. I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive; and you will know that I am the LORD.’” Notice how it is God who caused them to come to life by doing for them what they could never do in this dead state. He was the cause of their coming to life through the words Ezekiel spoke. That’s how God saves the elect today. As Christians witness to them, God moves through their words to bring them to life. They then repent and believe the gospel[Mark 1:15], that they couldn’t do prior as they were dead in transgressions and sin[Ephesians 2:1], and are saved. All this happens simultaneously. No one is saved and doesn’t have faith and neither does one have faith and is not saved.
I will leave you with this passage, But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.[Ephesians 2:4-10] Notice, it says when we were dead in our transgressions and sins He made us alive together with Christ. Just as those bones were dead in Ezekiel and God was the cause of them coming back to life, He is the cause of them coming back to life. It’s 100% God’s doing.
I noticed you never said forced. He doesn’t force it on us. Look at it like this. You are in public when you have a massive heart attack. You’re on the ground when someone sees you. Do they stand over you and say, “Get up! Get up! Come on! Make a decision to stand on your feet!“ Can you do this they are saying for you to do? Of course not. Why? You’re dead. They have to then get down and do CPR. Then, and only then, can you get up. And I know it’s several days after being in the hospital you finally go home.
Many can shoot holes in that story, as any we tell aren’t perfect. The point is dead ppl, no matter how many times they hear the gospel, unless God moves unilaterally to give them life, they can never truly hear it and be saved. They, in their fallen state, automatically reject it. Why? It’s foolishness unto them. They can also not understand the things of the Spirit. Why? They’re spiritually appraised.
Look at Ezekiel 37:1-11. He sees a valley of bones, dry and very dry. They were beyond hope of ever living again in that condition. God asks Ezekiel, “Son of man, can these bones live?” He gives him a prudent answer, “O Lord GOD, You know.” He is then told to “Prophesy over these bones and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.’” Wait, these bones are dead. They don’t even have ears to hear with. God won’t command ppl to do that He knows they can’t do, will He? He did right there. He then said ”Behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life. I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive; and you will know that I am the LORD.’” Notice how it is God who caused them to come to life by doing for them what they could never do in this dead state. He was the cause of their coming to life through the words Ezekiel spoke. That’s how God saves the elect today. As Christians witness to them, God moves through their words to bring them to life. They then repent and believe the gospel[Mark 1:15], that they couldn’t do prior as they were dead in transgressions and sin[Ephesians 2:1], and are saved. All this happens simultaneously. No one is saved and doesn’t have faith and neither does one have faith and is not saved.
I will leave you with this passage, But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.[Ephesians 2:4-10] Notice, it says when we were dead in our transgressions and sins He made us alive together with Christ. Just as those bones were dead in Ezekiel and God was the cause of them coming back to life, He is the cause of them coming back to life. It’s 100% God’s doing.
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