Not By Works

[DorothyMae]

2 Corinthians 11:3 in the NIV reads, "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ", which is quite different than the verse you quoted form the KJV.

Matthew 18:3 in the NIV reads, "And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven", which is also quite different than the KJV.

Hebrews 10:26-27 in the NIV reads, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. "

There are several problems with your post... 1) Taking single verses out of context can often lead to problems as verses (and chapters) are not part of the Bible; 2) English has changed over 400+ years; the meanings of words and phrases are not the same after four centuries. Nobody today clearly understands "your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" . 3) God is not Santa Claus.

You base part of your post on the mistranslated word "simplicity". It means something quite different in modern English than it did hundreds of years ago. Don't mix "apples and oranges", i.e., 400-year-old archaic English and the 21st century English of today. It can only lead to misunderstanding and false doctrine.

Interesting that there are conditions.and being deceived and led astray is possible.

 

[biker]

Would like to add, those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition and those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul.

And that is all good and well, but it still does not take away the fact those who remain and those who CHOOSE to sin still both accepted the Truth into their lives at one point.

This portion of the Greek even makes it clear they have accepted Christ to the point they have been under the Blood (Sacrifice) of Christ.

26 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

 

[biker]

Since we have those who want to make the Book of Hebrew nothing but the LAW, when clearly that is absolutely a false notion, I wonder how they would tackle these verses?


“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame (Hebrews 6:4-6).”


That clearly states people were definitely SAVED, should they fall away (which shows SAVED people can be LOST) they CRUCIFY JESUS over and over and over and over again and put Jesus to SHAME!

There is no denying these verses proves you can be SAVED and become LOST!

 

[biker]

Here God talks about those WHO are SAVED and fall back that GOD no longers has pleasure in them


“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38).”

 

[Duskey]

Oh, look, another of his disciples who's joined recently.

Sorry friend, I used to live where you now live, in the soulless pit of insecure hostility, and I’m never going back.

Your bad fruit is easy to see and I have no desire to partake. With that, I give you the last word, because I know you need it.

 

[Duskey]

What do you think that means? The Bible says God loves all men, even those in hell. Being once a son doesn’t help sons who left. No son privileges are granted unless they in their own decision return .

Then I suggest you return.

 

[biker]

No wonder you want the Book of Hebrews to be considered the LAW because God is RIPPING your Doctrine a NEW ONE!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

But the point is that these guys were never saved to begin with. Jesus never knew them. He never gave them a new heart and made them a new creation in Him.

So this passage cannot be used to say we can lose our so ship, or Salvation.

The word knew can be used as to know somebody or in an intimate way... how does God call us to intimacy? Through covenant. So the ones He didn't know was the ones out of covenant. Israel was in covenant but got a bill of divorce. God didn't know them anymore. We are serving the same God brother. He didn't change.

 

[stonesoffire]

In addition, the FATHER KNOWS EVERYTHING, past, present, and future. HE KNEW IF HE LET HIM Choose His own Path, he would come back regretting that Decision, begging the FATHER for Mercy, to let him be a servant. That I call, "The Grass is ALWAYS Greener on the Other Side of the FENCE" Syndrome.

People seem to forget that GOD KNOWS EVERY DECISION WE WILL MAKE IN OUR ENTIRE LIFE TIME, Before Time Began.
HE KNOWS Everyone who will come BACK, and HE KNOWS all who will NOT comeback, Before Time Began.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Hebrews 12:28-29 (HCSB)
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us hold on to grace. By it, we may serve God acceptably, with reverence and awe,
29 for our God is a consuming fire.'

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (ASV)
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.

Revelation 13:8 (ESV)
8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it {the Beast}, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Revelation 20:14-15 (ESV)
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 (ESV)
27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


This is why it grieves me to see someone WHO unwittingly and habitually makes False Statements about OSAS BELIEFS, as it seems to me, like they are flirting with DISASTER, depending on whether their hearts are right with the LORD.

While all this is true, the father in the story of the prodigal son was earthly.

 

[star]

And that is all good and well, but it still does not take away the fact those who remain and those who CHOOSE to sin still both accepted the Truth into their lives at one point.

This portion of the Greek even makes it clear they have accepted Christ to the point they have been under the Blood (Sacrifice) of Christ.

26 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

If your interpretation of that verse is truth, not one single soul will see heaven.

 

[biker]

“Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).”


This portion here:
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is believing you can sin and be saved doing the Will of the Father?

 

[EleventhHour]

Sorry friend, I used to live where you now live, in the soulless pit of insecure hostility, and I’m never going back.

Your bad fruit is easy to see and I have no desire to partake. With that, I give you the last word, because I know you need it.

And desires to drag down others there too!

Agree,
I think I will use the ignore function, it is time... I realized finally I will miss nothing.

 

[biker]

If your interpretation of that verse is truth, not one single soul will see heaven.

It is like I have been stating my entire time on this Thread:
Do we accept Grace as a GIFT or something OWED to us?

If it is a GIFT and we remain truly repentive, we are saved.

But if we believe we can sin and it has been covered so no need to repent, we are not Saved!

I believe these verses explain that:
“Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).”

 

[star]

“Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).”


This portion here:
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is believing you can sin and be saved doing the Will of the Father?

Are you without sin? Is anyone saved without sin? Do you believe in saved and being sinless? And who that is saved believes they can sin and it won't affect the heart of the Lord? Also, do you believe not accepting eternal salvation from our Lord and Savior as a once and for all event is doing the will of the Father?

 

[biker]

Are you without sin? Is anyone saved without sin? Do you believe in saved and being sinless? And who that is saved believes they can sin and it won't affect the heart of the Lord? Also, do you believe not accepting eternal salvation from our Lord and Savior as a once and for all event is doing the will of the Father?

I believe GRACE and MERCY are GIFTS, not owed to me.

If I need to ride the altar to get to heaven, I have no issue getting some nice comfy knee pads!

 

[star]

It is like I have been stating my entire time on this Thread:
Do we accept Grace as a GIFT or something OWED to us?

If it is a GIFT and we remain truly repentive, we are saved.

But if we believe we can sin and it has been covered so no need to repent, we are not Saved!

I believe these verses explain that:
“Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).”

Nope, that is not what the Savior has told us, or what God has told us. No one should knowingly sin but we do sometimes. That sin is to be repented for but that sin does not "erased" our salvation. If that were the case, there is no security in the gift of salvation. No security because we cannot live a sinless life.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Gandolf...


the difference between the OT covenant and the NT covenant is huge.

old is a contract of you do this, I do that.
new is a will of inheritance.

God is a god of covenant, always will be.

Jesus said everything is about Him, old and new so I doubt that difference is so huge

What is the difference between the Old and New Covenant? The page that separate them in your Bible. One book, one non changing God and his bride.

 

[star]

I believe GRACE and MERCY are GIFTS, not owed to me.

If I need to ride the altar to get to heaven, I have no issue getting some nice comfy knee pads!

Salvation is a gift from God Almighty and we receive that gift from Jesus Christ. None of us are "owed" it and none of us are "forced" to accept it. Once accepted, it cannot be lost.

 

[EleventhHour]

I believe GRACE and MERCY are GIFTS, not owed to me.

If I need to ride the altar to get to heaven, I have no issue getting some nice comfy knee pads!

A gift is not given based on merit....you are making meritous by trusting in your self to gain and maintain salvation.

 

[biker]

Nope, that is not what the Savior has told us, or what God has told us. No one should knowingly sin but we do sometimes. That sin is to be repented for but that sin does not "erased" our salvation. If that were the case, there is no security in the gift of salvation. No security because we cannot live a sinless life.

Ephesians 5:3-8
“But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not associate with them, for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light”