Not By Works

[VCO]

Do you think maybe it could be because the Father didn’t know where he was? The point was that the Son never lost his Sonship. And all was restored to him when he returned. True?

In addition, the FATHER KNOWS EVERYTHING, past, present, and future. HE KNEW IF HE LET HIM Choose His own Path, he would come back regretting that Decision, begging the FATHER for Mercy, to let him be a servant. That I call, "The Grass is ALWAYS Greener on the Other Side of the FENCE" Syndrome.

People seem to forget that GOD KNOWS EVERY DECISION WE WILL MAKE IN OUR ENTIRE LIFE TIME, Before Time Began.
HE KNOWS Everyone who will come BACK, and HE KNOWS all who will NOT comeback, Before Time Began.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Hebrews 12:28-29 (HCSB)
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us hold on to grace. By it, we may serve God acceptably, with reverence and awe,
29 for our God is a consuming fire.'

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (ASV)
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.

Revelation 13:8 (ESV)
8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it {the Beast}, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Revelation 20:14-15 (ESV)
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 (ESV)
27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


This is why it grieves me to see someone WHO unwittingly and habitually makes False Statements about OSAS BELIEFS, as it seems to me, like they are flirting with DISASTER, depending on whether their hearts are right with the LORD.

 

[DorothyMae]

Amen! Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Notice they said, "Lord, Lord, didn't "WE," (vs. 22) when the correct answer would have been, "Lord, Lord didn't "YOU." Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people who were "nominal" Christians were not true converts.

I notice you have to piece those scriptures together out of context. Instead of obeying the teachings of Christ, you reduced it all you do is giving mental ascent to a theological position leaving the behavior fully intact. You do not follow a teaching to its end in context.

Read the following verse “ whoever puts my words into PRACTICE...” which means DO what he teaches, not merely agree He saved them. This you reduce to just thinking.

Knowing God will not happen for those who refuse to obey Him.

Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep his teaching (doing what he taught) and those the Father will love and come and make His home in them. I know simply believing you’re going to heaven is a lot cheaper, but those are His conditions for knowing Him.

 

[Fastfredy0]

You do not seem to get it
preacher4truth claimed eg states EG believes god only chooses those who chose him

If EG believes this. They would be correct but EG does not believe this and never has claimed to say this. They also have been shown BY EG that what they’re claiming is not true. So when they continue to make the accusation. It becomes a LIE

Just try to be diplomatic. Call whatever you see as a LIE as a mistake and then respond by giving a correct or clarification. Don't inflame the situation by calling people liars. They made a mistake, I DOUBT IT WAS PURPOSEFUL ... and, if you self-examine you should say to yourself ... maybe I wasn't clear or maybe I made a mistake. Don't make an attack personal.
Soften the blow like I try to by inserting "IMO", or I believe 'so and so' opinion is "X'. Just be the bigger man and don't make it personal.

Re:
preacher4truth said:

You teach God chooses others because they chose him. You then teach he chose you because you chose him, making you special for doing so, which merited him choosing you.
That is merit, not grace.

Whatever ... same advise as above. I don't see any personal attack in preacher4truth statement. Just tell him you think he misrepresented you and correct him. Aside: The message board form of communication is not ideal and we are all fallible. Heck, I called a guy a women by mistake this week on this forum


Re: Fastfredy0 said:
LOL .... just flows naturally rolls off the tongue. God says, I chose to elect those who elect Me.
Hmmm, I could have been more diplomatic admittedly. But, it was not a personal attack ... and, to be honest, I think it does point out where your logic leads to. But the important thing is, I did not attack your person, just your idea(s).

1 It was an inflammatory remark, whether you think so or not. You were in affect mocking me with your words

Again, I attacked you IDEA, not you personally. You simply responded by saying what is wrong with my statement, in this case I, IMO, pointed out the consequence of your opinion. I almost NEVER attack the person, always the idea. We are all doing it.

I chose him, WHICH IS A LIE!!!

Once again..

1. I DID NOT CHOSE CHRIST HE CHOSE ME
2. HE CHOSE BASED ON THE GOSPEL. of which I CHOSE TO RECIEVE THAT GOSPEL HE OFFERED AND HAVE IT APPLIED TO ME'
3. I CAME TO FAITH BECAUSE GOD DREW ME, CONVICTED ME AND TAUGHT ME HIS TRUTH. NOT OF MY OWN POWER
4. I CHOSE SALVATION. BASED ON THAT GIFT.

if you continue to insist otherwise, well then that is a major problem

Well, perhaps we are at an impasse. You want to debate but want take exception when I/someone tries to state my/their understanding of your position and I/they don't do it correctly. You take it personally. I don't see how someone can talk to another about what they said and not mention what that person said and how they interpreted what that person said. (unless one sets up a formal system or employs lawyers to proof read).

Let's agree to disagree. Let's agree to not address each other directly as you think I am a LIAR and I don't like to be called this and we get to you calling me a LIAR and I thinking you are a LIAR for do so. LOL....(not laughing you ... laughing at the conclusion this discussion leads to ... that everyone who debates you is a liar ... LOL)

oh well, I tried
Aside: I will not stop attacking ideas I don't agree with.
Aside2: I don't think you should engage in debate with those you disagree with. *ponders* Don't you think it a strange coincidence that every Christian you disagree with and confronts you on this forum ends up being a liar. Interesting co-incidence, perhaps.
Aside3: At least now I have a clue why you are calling me a liar. I don't agree with your reasoning for your personal attacks, but I have some clue what you are talking about.
Aside4: Maybe I will change my mind

 

[DorothyMae]

He never lost his sonship.

As far as the father was concerned he was dead.

 

[DorothyMae]

Where ever I go the Father goes with me....as in Holy Spirit.....did you know that?

There are many things one can say.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You base part of your post on the mistranslated word "simplicity".

Sure, only the KJV has mistranslations in it...

Do you ever wonder why the newer translators seemingly agree with each other in most instances? Along with many of the study “helps” (lexicons, Bible dictionarys)?

It’s interesting that no one seems to consider wether or not translators were spiritually sound who translated the writings inspired by the Spirit (the word of God). Just being a learned man in the original languages is not a qualifying factor for me; you must also exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.

The translators to the reader in the KJV is unmatched in showing a love for the word when compared to the bland pedantic scholar-speak (jargon) that most modern Bible prefaces are filled with.

The KJV was translated with such precision that it equips the believer to conduct perfect spiritual warfare. That’s been my experience. I have proved the KJV in spiritual warfare and it is effective.

I appreciate your opinion, though.

 

[DorothyMae]

Not those He redeemed through His offering of His Son.

The body of Christ is both Jew and Gentile who believe and receive. Would Father ever divorce His Son?

Members of His body and He keeps His body whole.

Sons and fathers are not married so cannot be divorced according to a post you recently wrote.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Anyway. Thanks, let’s see where this goes. Of course my last post to you was direct and to the point. I hope you were not offended

I was not offended. You stated your honest feelings and did not get personal.

Honestly, I don't purposely try to say something you did not intend. Honestly, I try to say what I think you mean when replying. Honestly, you take it as an personal insult when I unintentionally don't understand exactly what you said. I don't know how we get past that.
I too think you are my brother-in-Christ and I love that about you...but, you take what I say about your ideas personally and I don't see how we get by that. I know we are both trying ... maybe debating wasn't meant for our interaction.

 

[DorothyMae]

Sure, only the KJV has mistranslations in it...

Do you ever wonder why the newer translators seemingly agree with each other in most instances? Along with many of the study “helps” (lexicons, Bible dictionarys)?

It’s interesting that no one seems to consider wether or not translators were spiritually sound who translated the writings inspired by the Spirit (the word of God). Just being a learned man in the original languages is not a qualifying factor for me; you must also exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.

The translators to the reader in the KJV is unmatched in showing a love for the word when compared to the bland pedantic scholar-speak (jargon) that most modern Bible prefaces are filled with.

The KJV was translated with such precision that it equips the believer to conduct perfect spiritual warfare. That’s been my experience. I have proved the KJV in spiritual warfare and it is effective.

I appreciate your opinion, though.

The KJV equipped the English speaking church to spread the Gospel and none of the translators held a the rights to what they wrote.

 

[Duskey]

Well then you want to converse,dialogue....... how about you reply to my posts or are only some privy to your favour?

Time to quit throwing your pearls before swine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just try to be diplomatic. Call whatever you see as a LIE as a mistake and then respond by giving a correct or clarification. Don't inflame the situation by calling people liars. They made a mistake, I DOUBT IT WAS PURPOSEFUL ...

You weill have to forgive me, But when the same person insists over and over something is fact. when he has been shown over and over again it is not a fact.

This is purposeful.

for you. Yes, I can see how you did not do this on purpose. But you got caught up in the battle. And sadly, Like I said, Sometimes when you come into the middle of a conversation. these things happen.

and, if you self-examine you should say to yourself ... maybe I wasn't clear or maybe I made a mistake. Don't make an attack personal.
Soften the blow like I try to by inserting "IMO", or I believe 'so and so' opinion is "X'. Just be the bigger man and don't make it personal.

Again, This is ongoing with P4T and the other two people.. You do not know the history. so please do not assume anything..

He did not make a mistake. He thinks he is right, and how dare anyone claim he is wrong.

Again you got caught up in the middle of it. And for this I am sorry.

Whatever ... same advise as above. I don't see any personal attack in preacher4truth statement. Just tell him you think he misrepresented you and correct him. Aside: The message board form of communication is not ideal and we are all fallible. Heck, I called a guy a women by mistake this week on this forum

I have to just SMH, Again, You do not know the history. Or how he has done thing. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt because he continues to do the same thing over and over.


[quote[
Re: Fastfredy0 said:
LOL .... just flows naturally rolls off the tongue. God says, I chose to elect those who elect Me.
Hmmm, I could have been more diplomatic admittedly. But, it was not a personal attack ... and, to be honest, I think it does point out where your logic leads to. [/quote]

well you would be wrong, and if you continued to insist it, It would be called bearing false witness.

But the important thing is, I did not attack your person, just your idea(s).

Again this history, I did not consider it an attack, I considered it a mock. It is what I have been trying to get people to stop doing, has no bearing on the conversation. and to most people is an insult.

Again, I attacked you IDEA, not you personally. You simply responded by saying what is wrong with my statement, in this case I, IMO, pointed out the consequence of your opinion. I almost NEVER attack the person, always the idea. We are all doing it.

Well, perhaps we are at an impasse. You want to debate but want take exception when I/someone tries to state my/their understanding of your position and I/they don't do it correctly. You take it personally. I don't see how someone can talk to another about what they said and not mention what that person said and how they interpreted what that person said. (unless one sets up a formal system or employs lawyers to proof read).

Let's agree to disagree. Let's agree to not address each other directly as you think I am a LIAR and I don't like to be called this and we get to you calling me a LIAR and I thinking you are a LIAR for do so. LOL....(not laughing you ... laughing at the conclusion this discussion leads to ... that everyone who debates you is a liar ... LOL)

oh well, I tried
Aside: I will not stop attacking ideas I don't agree with.
Aside2: I don't think you should engage in debate with those you disagree with. *ponders* Don't you think it a strange coincidence that every Christian you disagree with and confronts you on this forum ends up being a liar. Interesting co-incidence, perhaps.
Aside3: At least now I have a clue why you are calling me a liar. I don't agree with your reasoning for your personal attacks, but I have some clue what you are talking about.
Aside4: Maybe I will change my mind

1. I made a statment (2+2 = 4)
2. You claim The statement i made was 2+2 = 4.2

it may sound the same, It may even appear that maybe you misunderstood me, Or it is what you see.

The fact is, It is wrong. It is not the truth (I did not say what you claimed I said) and hence, it is what they call bearing false witness, or a lie.

Now if you want to consider or discuss why you think I said it is 4.2. That ius fine, But when you outright consider to demans I said 4.2 Then any means of discussion are nullified.

This is in affect what has been happening here since P4T first made the accusation and I told him he was wrong.

I hope you can see why I feel this way. And I hope we can move on from this.

If I have offended you I ask your forgiveness

 

[EleventhHour]

Time to quit throwing your pearls before swine.

Thank you .. it is true.

I even apologized and no acknowledgment what so ever... even to say I do not think your apology it genuine, I actually would have respected that more.

 

[Duskey]

As far as the father was concerned he was dead.

And still never lost his sonship.

 

[Duskey]

Thank you .. it is true.

I even apologized and no acknowledgment what so ever... even to say I do not think your apology it genuine, I actually would have respected that more.

Shake the dust off your feet and rejoice.

 

[jaybo]

Sure, only the KJV has mistranslations in it...

Do you ever wonder why the newer translators seemingly agree with each other in most instances? Along with many of the study “helps” (lexicons, Bible dictionarys)?

It’s interesting that no one seems to consider wether or not translators were spiritually sound who translated the writings inspired by the Spirit (the word of God). Just being a learned man in the original languages is not a qualifying factor for me; you must also exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.

The translators to the reader in the KJV is unmatched in showing a love for the word when compared to the bland pedantic scholar-speak (jargon) that most modern Bible prefaces are filled with.

The KJV was translated with such precision that it equips the believer to conduct perfect spiritual warfare. That’s been my experience. I have proved the KJV in spiritual warfare and it is effective.

I appreciate your opinion, though.

And I appreciate your opinions too. However, I disagree. The idea of translation is to be faithful to the source texts in several areas: word meaning, context meaning, verb tenses, idioms, etc. What makes you think that in some way the translators who created the KJV were lovers of the word, giving them some sort of special ability that modern translators lack?

One of the main principles of good translation is to be as close to the intent of the source documents as possible. => It is poor translation practice to change the character of the source languages, which is what the KJV translators did. Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek are plain, unadorned languages; the language used in the KJV is the exact opposite. Nobody uses the stilted, archaic language of the KJV in normal conversation. Using the language of the KJV may sound beautiful and poetic, but to the modern mind it is inaccurate translation.

 

[preacher4truth]

Get over it for crying out loud.

Oh, look, another of his disciples who's joined recently.

 

[EleventhHour]

Oh, look, another of his disciples who's joined recently.

You come on this thread started by @dcontroversal and you make comments like that.... and you want to be taken seriously as to getting this thread back on track?

Who is foolin who...it ain't me.

 

[DorothyMae]

I’m actually pretty sorry for my fellow believers who laugh and jeer and snore at the words of others. They are doing something not good to their hearts.

 

[star]

Is it "Christ like" to teach false doctrine?

Doctrine that is central to the Gospel?

No it is NOT Christ-like to teach false doctrine, to act superior than others, to show arrogance towards others and most importantly, it is not godly to twist words of God. If there is a witch in the midst, I'll not succumb.

 

[DorothyMae]

And still never lost his sonship.

What do you think that means? The Bible says God loves all men, even those in hell. Being once a son doesn’t help sons who left. No son privileges are granted unless they in their own decision return .