The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[Ahwatukee]

One thing I've noticed is that websites like this where there are Bible discussion forums attract people who really like to discuss the Bible. People who are interested enough on the Bible to discuss it using hundreds, even thousands, of impassioned posts probably have firmly held beliefs and convictions about what they are saying.

The result is we get a message board full of people with vastly different interpretations who are steadfastly unmoving from any position that contradicts their view. That accounts for most of the bickering and disagreements. And you will find most people aren't teachable here.

I have gotten into one argument, bit afterwards I realized the vanity of it. It's better to just state a position, explain why, and move on without trying to convince people of anything. That's my opinion.

Hi Runningman!

What you are talking about above means that Satan and the powers of darkness are doing their intended job.

One of the major problems that I continue to experience is that even when you provide scripture after scripture, people still refuse to budge from what they have adopted.

Satan doesn't even need to do much to deceive. He just needs to find people to introduce the false teaching and then sit back and watch it spread, like a virus. This type of thing was already permeating the church, such as with Hymenaeus and Philetus who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, which Paul said was godless chatter, would spread like gangrene, that they were destroying the faith of some and that they had wondered away from the truth. We have those among us today referred to as preterist, meaning that they believe that most if not all end-time events found in Matt.24 and all of Revelation have already taken place, including the resurrection. They completely ignore all reasoning from scripture in support of the poison that they have swallowed.

Their rejection of the plain truth of God's word, just makes you shake your head in amazement! Forgive me, I'm ranting now! Take the Amillennialist for example who directly reject the word of God which states six times the words "a thousand years" and instead jump out of context and apply the meaning of a thousand from Psalm 50:10 where God says, "for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills." We are definitely seeing the following scripture being fulfilled:

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

True deception is when you don't even know that you have been deceived.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[EDIT to ADD to my post] The following verse uses "G386 [resurrection]" 2x :

https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/11-35.htm - Hebrews 11:35

Heb11:35 [blb] -

"Women received back their dead by [ex/ek - out of] resurrection [G386]; and others were tortured, not having accepted release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection [G386]."


[so I guess it depends on what "ex/ek" (G1537) means in this verse]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hmmm. Are you saying that Jesus was not "resurrected," but only "raised from the dead," as though the two phrases refer to wholly distinct things (tho we know that OUR bodily resurrection is yet future, for those of us who will have DIED before that point ).


Consider the following:

"then let this be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed." - Acts 4:10


"After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken." - John 2:22


"Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel," - 2 Timothy 2:8


"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?" - 1 Corinthians 15:12


[each of these verses using "raised [G1453]" and the last verse using also "resurrection [G386]"]



If Christ was "raised from the dead," was He "resurrected"?

Good day, DivineWathermark!

Because I can't see who you are responding to they must be on my 'ignore' list. This information is for their benefit.

However, regarding your conversation and for the sake of the other poster, I would add that the word 'anastasis' translated as 'Resurrected' always refers to the physical body standing up again. Therefore, the word Resurrection never refers to the departure of the spirit, but has to do solely with the physical body. The meaning of the resurrection has to do with the spirit returning to the body and standing up again. Jesus is our example regarding this in that, when the women went to the tomb on the morning of the third day, they did not find His body laying in tomb. The angels that appeared in the tomb said, "Why are you looking for living among the dead? He (His body) is not here. He rose just as He said He would.

The bodily resurrection is also supported by the fact that, when Jesus appeared to His disciples after His resurrection, they thought that they were seeing a spirit. But Jesus comforts them by saying, "Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Jesus' proof that He resurrected in the same body was for them to look at the nail marks in His and hands and feet and the fact that Had flesh and bones, i.e. a bodily resurrection.

======================================================================================
Strong's Concordance
anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (an-as'-tas-is)
Definition: a standing up, a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Usage: a rising again, resurrection.

HELPS Word-studies
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).

Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).

[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]

 

[Truth7t7]

Hmmm. Are you saying that Jesus was not "resurrected," but only "raised from the dead," as though the two phrases refer to wholly distinct things (tho we know that OUR bodily resurrection is yet future, for those of us who will have DIED before that point ).

Consider the following:

"then let this be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed." - Acts 4:10

"After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken." - John 2:22

"Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel," - 2 Timothy 2:8

"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?" - 1 Corinthians 15:12

[each of these verses using "raised [G1453]" and the last verse using also "resurrection [G386]"]

If Christ was "raised from the dead," was He "resurrected"?

Lazarus dead body that was in gravesclothes was raised from the dead, simple and very easy to understand as seen below.

John 11:43-44KJV
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good day, DivineWathermark!

Because I can't see who you are responding to they must be on my 'ignore' list. This information is for their benefit.

However, regarding your conversation and for the sake of the other poster, I would add that the word 'anastasis' translated as 'Resurrected' always refers to the physical body standing up again. Therefore, the word Resurrection never refers to the departure of the spirit, but has to do solely with the physical body. The meaning of the resurrection has to do with the spirit returning to the body and standing up again. Jesus is our example regarding this in that, when the women went to the tomb on the morning of the third day, they did not find His body laying in tomb. The angels that appeared in the tomb said, "Why are you looking for living among the dead? He (His body) is not here. He rose just as He said He would.

The bodily resurrection is also supported by the fact that, when Jesus appeared to His disciples after His resurrection, they thought that they were seeing a spirit. But Jesus comforts them by saying, "Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Jesus' proof that He resurrected in the same body was for them to look at the nail marks in His and hands and feet and the fact that Had flesh and bones, i.e. a bodily resurrection.

======================================================================================
Strong's Concordance
anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (an-as'-tas-is)
Definition: a standing up, a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Usage: a rising again, resurrection.

HELPS Word-studies
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).

Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).

[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]

From the guy speaking the truth on your ignore list

Lazarus wasn't resurrected as this takes place on the "Future" Last day.

Lazarus was "Raised From The Dead" as the future resurrection is when the believer obtains the glorified immortal body.

John 6:40KJV
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Lazarus dead body that was in gravesclothes, he was raised from the dead, simple and very easy to understand as seen below.

John 11:43-44KJV
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Lazarus dead body that was in gravesclothes was raised from the dead, simple and very easy to understand as seen below.
John 11:43-44KJV
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Okay, but my question was about Jesus:

Did the word "resurrection [G386]" apply to Him, when He was "raised [G1453] from the dead"?

Romans 1:4 -

"having been declared the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness, by [ex/ek] resurrection [G386] from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord,"

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/1-4.htm

...considered alongside the verses I already supplied (with the word "raised [G1453] from the dead" [re: Jesus] in Acts 4:10, Jn2:22, 2Tim2:8, and 1Cor15:12).



Does the word "resurrection [G386]" apply to Jesus, just as "raised [G1453] from the dead" was (at the same point in time--meaning, back in 32ad same yr He died [or whichever year you think that was])??

 

[Truth7t7]

Okay, but my question was about Jesus:

Did the word "resurrection [G386]" apply to Him, when He was "raised [G1453] from the dead"?

Romans 1:4 -

"having been declared the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness, by [ex/ek] resurrection [G386] from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord,"

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/1-4.htm

...considered alongside the verses I already supplied (with the word "raised [G1453] from the dead" [re: Jesus] in Acts 4:10, Jn2:22, 2Tim2:8, and 1Cor15:12).



Does the word "resurrection [G386]" apply to Jesus, just as "raised [G1453] from the dead" was (at the same point in time--meaning, back in 32ad same yr He died [or whichever year you think that was])??

Christ is the "First Fruit" of the bodily resurrection, when Jesus Christ returns on the "Last Day" those that died in faith will be resurrected, at the "End Of The World" at the second coming, immediately after the tribulation.

"The Last Day Resurrection"

1 Cor 15:23-24KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[KJV1611]

Christ is the "First Fruit" of the bodily resurrection, when Jesus Christ returns on the "Last Day" those that died in faith will be resurrected, at the "End Of The World" at the second coming, immediately after the tribulation.

"The Last Day Resurrection"

1 Cor 15:23-24KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

There you go changing the Bible again. Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS (plural) of them THAT SLEPT. Can you comprehend what that means? They rose with Jesus and they ain’t sleeping no more!

1Co 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

 

[KJV1611]

There you go changing the Bible again. Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS (plural) of them THAT SLEPT. Can you comprehend what that means? They rose with Jesus and they ain’t sleeping no more!

1Co 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

@Truth7t7

That also means that the one time MASS resurrection at the “end of the world” that you think is coming.... well it ain’t coming. It started with Christ and the rest of the other FIRSTFRUITS and is ongoing from that point on.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There you go changing the Bible again. Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS (plural) of them THAT SLEPT. Can you comprehend what that means? They rose with Jesus and they ain’t sleeping no more!

1Co 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Actually, the Greek word is SINGULAR in all 8x (possibly 9x) it is used, including these two verses in 1Cor15 that are speaking of Christ, 1Cor15:20,23 "G536 - aparché - firstfruit [SINGULAR]" :

-- https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-20.htm - 1Cor15:20

-- https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-23.htm - 1Cor15:23


[surely you believe versions were "preserved" BEFORE the kjv1611 was "preserved" in the year 1611, right?]

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7

That also means that the one time MASS resurrection at the “end of the world” that you think is coming.... well it ain’t coming. It started with Christ and the rest of the other FIRSTFRUITS and is ongoing from that point on.

Your claim that the resurrection of believers is a big "False Claim"

As Daniel below clearly teaches that the time of the resurrection surrounds the "Future" great tribulation that you as a (Full Preterist) denies, at the "Future" time of the final great white throne judgement, Daniel showing those found in the book of life, Rev 20:11-15 the future judgement that you also deny.

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Your claim that the resurrection has been continuing for the past 2,000 years is 100% "False" as (The Hour) is coming, when (All In The Graves) Shall hear the Lords voice and come forth, bend and twist the clear truth presented.

John 5:28-29 and Daniel 12:1-2, are parallel teachings of the exact "Future Event"

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Good day, DivineWathermark!
Because I can't see who you are responding to they must be on my 'ignore' list. This information is for their benefit.
[...]
HELPS Word-studies
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).

[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]

Yes, I do believe the word "G386 - anastasis - resurrection" refers to a "physical / bodily resurrection" ('to stand again').

Agreed.

Thanks.

 

[PlainWord]

I pretty much agree with that but we must also keep in mind that Jesus said those who believe on him will never experience death. So what you are calling "resurrected from" is actually a translation that takes place prior to our death. And this is why I said the resurrection is perpetually ongoing.

The more I study the more apparent it is becoming that the resurrection had little to do with the raising of dead bodies but it seems to point more toward the translation of believers into glorified bodies.

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said. I see no use of anything dealing with our flesh bodies once they die. They decay and return to dust with not one molecule a part of our spiritual body. This is why I don't believe those who rose with Christ were resurrected. Instead, I believe they were resuscitated. Probably only those dead 4 or less days.

Of course Jesus was discussing spiritual death (separation from God). Our spirits and souls are eternal, our body is not. Our spirits and souls do not change from this dimension to the next. It further believe it possible that we already have our spiritual bodies trapped inside our flesh bodies so that when we die, we have awareness and vision, hearing, etc. Once in heaven, we become glorified.

 

[KJV1611]

@Truth7t7

That also means that the one time MASS resurrection at the “end of the world” that you think is coming.... well it ain’t coming. It started with Christ and the rest of the other FIRSTFRUITS and is ongoing from that point on.

Actually, the Greek word is SINGULAR in all 8x (possibly 9x) it is used, including these two verses in 1Cor15 that are speaking of Christ, 1Cor15:20,23 "G536 - aparché - firstfruit [SINGULAR]" :

-- https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-20.htm - 1Cor15:20

-- https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-23.htm - 1Cor15:23


[surely you believe versions were "preserved" BEFORE the kjv1611 was "preserved" in the year 1611, right?]

Yeah right, it's another proleptic you..... you don't like what it says so YOU change it.

You must be head and shoulders above all translators because I looked at multiple translations to see if what you said was true and would you believe that not one single translation I looked at agrees with YOU, even the NIV, ASV, and NASB disagrees with you.

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim that the resurrection of believers is a big "False Claim"

As Daniel below clearly teaches that the time of the resurrection surrounds the "Future" great tribulation that you as a (Full Preterist) denies, at the "Future" time of the final great white throne judgement, Daniel showing those found in the book of life, Rev 20:11-15 the future judgement that you also deny.

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Your claim that the resurrection has been continuing for the past 2,000 years is 100% "False" as (The Hour) is coming, when (All In The Graves) Shall hear the Lords voice and come forth, bend and twist the clear truth presented.

John 5:28-29 and Daniel 12:1-2, are parallel teachings of the exact "Future Event"

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So what are you trying to say now? Are you saying that Jesus wasn't the FIRSTFUITS of them that SLEPT? Are you trying to say that only Jesus rose and the rest of the OT saints are still SLEEPING?

 

[PlainWord]

I don't have the pen that writes in the Lambs Book Of Life, nor have I seen within it.

One thing I do know, any teaching that denies the (3) items below is heretical.

Another Doctrine!

1.) The individual denies a future return of Jesus Christ to earth?

2.) The individual denies the future glorified body of the believer and resurrection on the last day?

3.) The individual denies a future New Heaven and Earth?

The disciples and Christ were at odds with the religious order of their day, weren't they? They were considered heretics by the religious establishment. I prefer to be on the side that is correct, not the side which is wrong but popular.

 

[PlainWord]

You're wrong. So wrong. Are you saying that something has to be added to the gospel I presented here? We HAVE to understand end times the same way you do to be saved? PLEASE ANSWER THIS CLEARLY.

As I can't explain myself any more clearly than I have, I leave you with on last declaration the our belief on end times has NOTHING AT ALL, EVER to do with salvation. You can be saved and may believe either or, I KNOW this because I've held both view while saved. So there is no way at all you can be right, and your arrogance blinds you to the possibility you may be the one leading the babes astray? Ever thought of that? I doubt it.

That is EXACTLY what he is doing. He is admittedly following traditions of man, rather than believing the Word of God. I've encountered his type 1,000 times on here. Futurists are pretty much all the same, they distort scripture, they are wrong, arrogant, self-righteous and mean spirited. When they start losing the debate, they start with the name calling then they block people. One can NEVER convince them of the errors in their thinking or even impress upon them the need to be civil, and yes, Christian. I could go on but let's leave it at that.

 

[PlainWord]

Those that came out of the grave after "His Resurrection" were raised from the dead, just as Lazarus and Tabitha were raised, in human bodies that were to die again.

Its you who has added to scripture, in the false claim that those who came out of the grave were "Resurrected"

The Resurrection of those who have died in faith takes place on "The Last Day" as Jesus Christ taught, John 6:40, 5:28-29, 11:23-24

I actually agree with the first part of this statement. I too believe they were resuscitated and not resurrected. Since they were resuscitated, they did not technically die twice. People are resuscitated all the time today to eventually die later. This does not contradict Heb 9:27. I have to disagree with my good buddy, KJV on this one point.

However, what last day was Jesus discussing? Last day of what, their age or the planet Earth? Remember, they called the days they were living in as the "last days" (Acts 2:17, Heb 1:2, Jam 5:3 etc). "Last days" do not go on for 2,000 years.

 

[KJV1611]

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said. I see no use of anything dealing with our flesh bodies once they die. They decay and return to dust with not one molecule a part of our spiritual body. This is why I don't believe those who rose with Christ were resurrected. Instead, I believe they were resuscitated. Probably only those dead 4 or less days.

Of course Jesus was discussing spiritual death (separation from God). Our spirits and souls are eternal, our body is not. Our spirits and souls do not change from this dimension to the next. It further believe it possible that we already have our spiritual bodies trapped inside our flesh bodies so that when we die, we have awareness and vision, hearing, etc. Once in heaven, we become glorified.

I'm forewarning you PW, this is a set up lol. When did this verse happen, specifically, when did the voice of the Bridegroom cease from the cities of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem?

(Jer 7:34) Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

 

[Absolutely]

Amen brother, talk about nicely stated, but you want to know where He is pointing my heart now? To 1 Cor.

10 I appeal to you, brothers,[a] by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

EVERYWHERE it tells us we are to love each other, we are to be KNOWN by our love for each other. I just want to glorify our King together. Of course this isn't always a "nice neat thing", but man I think we can really do so much better. Especially here in the body. I don't know how many of these arguments that I've been in that when we really start talking and breaking it down it turns out that we just took two different paths to the same place. That we can debate all day long and honestly reach the same conclusion in the end. I can't lie, I do like the hard conversations. The ones that really make you dig in and think about His word, by His Spirit. I grow the most through these kinds of things, mostly through my mistakes though honestly.
I might have to research deeper into something because I just don't feel certain enough to declared it. Or the bigger issue and the one I'm talking about is how I speak to people. Face to face is SO much better, but we do so much communicating through text and that is a whole new ballgame. I even made a comment Friday I thought was kind of light hearted and funny, something in person I could have made charming, but rereading it today it comes off kind of disrespectful and that sucks. But I learn from it and grow better, by His power and Spirit I am made more like Him.

I have believed the pre trib stuff, while saved for 100% sure. But as I've grown, read deeper into His word, by His will of course, He has open my eyes to things that show me how much better EVERYTHING lines up so much better, to the point I could not deny it. Then as He works in me it just grows to the point that knowing that this view is called ridiculous, and hated. Most of all it's held by the vast minority on here on CC particularly. Which let me say for the record is just fine of course. I go to a AoG Pentecostal church. Trust me they are waiting for the rapture baby! I still believe this is where God put me, it was actually my family church when my great grand mother and father were in charge (of the family), but anyway when the church I was attending said it was going to merge with another church, on of course I had never heard of, to me just a random church. Well once I was finally able to get my dad to come, as soon as he got out of the truck in the parking lot he said "I used to run up and down these pews when I was a little boy". That was when I first learned this was the church my family went to. Wow I'm tearing up even thinking about this, but He brought me home and I didn't even know. My dad even knew the oldest gentleman there, who was still there from before 40+ years earlier. ALL Glory to our King Jesus!!!

I just want to be 1 body, I don't so much care what you believe about the end times, I trust God to lead you to all truth, just as I trust Him to lead me to all truth. I want to unite focusing less on these in house little squabbles, but join together in love and boldness and start speaking out against these crazy things happening in our country, we need the church to step up now. We are His children and we are called to proclaim His name to all nations. Amen(let it be)!!!!!!

""I have believed the pre trib stuff, while saved for 100% sure. But as I've grown, read deeper into His word, by His will of course, He has open my eyes to things that show me how much better EVERYTHING lines up so much better, to the point I could not deny it. Then as He works in me it just grows to the point that knowing that this view is called ridiculous, and hated. Most of all it's held by the vast minority ....""

Name one or 2 things that line up better.
One or 2 verses