The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
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Another Doctrine!
1.) The individual denies a future return of Jesus Christ to earth?
2.) The individual denies the future glorified body of the believer and resurrection on the last day?
3.) The individual denies a future New Heaven and Earth?
Three Strikes You're Out!
"Avoid Them"!
Romans 16:17KJV
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
In 70 AD after 40 years of the teachings of Christ and His disciples, only 7% of the Jewish people accepted their Messiah as the Son of God. The remaining 93% denied Christ and remaining committed to the Law and Judaism. So, is the majority always right? The Bible tends to indicate throughout that the majority is usually wrong.
Then I shall avoid you because you follow the traditions of man and ignore the clear teachings of Christ and His disciples. No matter what you futurists do, you cannot explain these 3 eyewitness accounts of what Christ taught. Instead, you and biker take the word of a 3rd hand witness who wasn't there and was born 60 years after the event recalling a conversation he had 35 years earlier with someone who talked to someone.
Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Luke 9:27
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
I actually had a futurist try to tell me that there are a couple of dudes 2,000 years old sequestered somewhere that God kept alive, to make this passage come true.
Who copied the Gospels and the rest of the NT including Revelation, and how many copies were made, or, were all the Churches throughout the Roman Empire sharing the original?
I would give you the History of it but why waste my time?
You think 70 AD was the grand slam event!
I have given answers that have been thoroughly proven and when you toss in a Newton quote that took place 1600 years later, I understand what I am dealing with!
You know it's the side with the poorer argument that resorts to name calling and insults first right? Psychology 101. Was just kind of surprised reading through this then all of a sudden BAM!!!, this just stood out as very weak to me. I thought you were making a good case, and making it well until this. Not how you should speak to a brother or represent our King who says the world will know us by our love for each other. This is my opinion admittedly, just thought it might actually help. Honestly though chill with that, it really does take from the real case you had made to this point.
Wow went into full blow insult mode, then run and hide mode? Why are we so fragile that we can't hear opinions that are not our own without falling to pieces to the point we "JUST CAN'T DISCUSS THIS!!!!!!!!!!" and run away from it. Biker your meltdown at the end here is honestly embarrassing man. This is how you behave to your fellow human being, never mind a brother? This is what our King calls us to do?
Aren't you just a peacemaker. A ray of sunshine you are. "They don't believe like us, quick separate!!!!!" I wish I could say I was shocked. What do you not think we are called to come together to discuss these things and maybe, just maybe, learn something from each other? I know this is a bold thing to say, and I hope it's doesn't "just" offend you, but you are fanning the flames of the anti-Christ spirit here man, dividing so quickly over what really? Do you not trust the Spirit to lead you to all truth? Do you not trust Him to lead us to that very same truth? Maybe it's our interactions He uses to show us what we aren't seeing, and helps us to see the truth, or even a WAY out there possibility, and He uses others to open your eyes to a truth you were blind to. Think it may work a little something like that? Or are you still just "Hurry hide and divide, never ever listen to or share with any of "them". I know which one I feel sounds more like our King.
70 AD was the end of the Jewish age and of the Bible. You keep bringing up Newton like he's the only person I quoted and relied upon. I quoted multiple sources including Ignatius who stated that Christ returned and raised up His disciples from the dead. These power quotes and evidence, you ignore. I quoted three passages in scripture where Jesus was recorded as saying that some of those He was talking to, would still be alive when He returned. This you also ignore. You ignore all the overwhelming evidence of the first century Advent and instead cling to the 3rd hand, hearsay account of a Frenchmen and the traditions of man.
How about we debate scripture. You give me your interpretation of the 3 eyewitness accounts who stated clearly what Christ said about those standing there seeing His return. How did all 3 of them get it wrong???
Any neutral arbitrator can take these passages only one way. Christ returned and someone standing there saw it. To any futurist, please give the class your interpretation of these passages and how they apply to a period thousands of years into the future. Let the twisting and gymnastics begin...
Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Luke 9:27
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Luke 9:27
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
I disagree with Jimbone on a lot of things too. But he is always civil about it and doesn't seem to get overly excited when someone disagrees.
How about these:
Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Are we still under the Law or are we under Grace? When the temple fell, the Law fell with it. Thus - All is fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Are we still under the Law or are we under Grace? When the temple fell, the Law fell with it. Thus - All is fulfilled.
He has the true heart and love of a Christian. Christ commanded that we love one another. Jimbone is up to the task.
How about this passage futurists? Explain how this can be thousands of years later when all these cities were destroyed before 70 AD as recorded in history. Here Christ again is saying He will return, this time before His disciples went through all the cities of "the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel." Since these cities are gone, Christ must have returned.
Mat 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Mat 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
?? I'm not sure why you think I don't, but I was actually surprised how much I do share your views, and I KNOW how popular this view is that's why I like it when someone is brave enough to proclaim it, for reasons witnessed here. There may be other things outside of what was said here we might not agree on, I can't remember, but our views on these things line up here. I believe the end of the age Jesus warns of coming before that generation "passes away", did in fact come just as He said it would, and was the promised judgement on the covenant breakers, which is why the temple was taken off earth as well as the genealogies for the priesthood, everything they needed to truly live as God commanded them live, in that AGE. I also believe Jesus is alive and seated at the right hand, right now with all authority in heaven and on earth granted to Him and is reigning until all enemies have been made a footstool for His feet, we are to therefore go and make disciples of all nations, for His glory.