The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today

[Dino246]

Forgive me if I don’t care what you think about my credibility. Jesus had no credibility with the with Jews and they killed him.

Whatever works for you. However, I'm not Jewish, and you ain't Jesus.

 

[Dino246]

I would add "unwilling" or "refuse" to hear and therefore believe. They simply refuse to hear prophecy in any tongue.

Identifying unbelieving mankind)

1 Corinthians 14; 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they "not" hear me, saith the Lord.

The Jews of Jesus' day did indeed refuse to hear. However, Christians in 2020 are not Jews in AD 30-odd. Don't confuse the two.

 

[garee]

Respectfully, it's comments like this that destroy your credibility. That is no evidence of inspiration at all! It's entirely subjective and circular.

The evidence is in the context of the parable .Completing the circuit of circular reasoning. A perfect law that works in the believer. No nonsense (Babel) . Straight up words that come with meanings attached. Words that work in a person .Not groans or moaning, peeping or muttering, self edifying wonderments . Filler uppers

 

[Scribe]

The KJV translators believed they were doing a service to the reader by adding "unknown" to tongues. "Unlearned" would have been more appropriate. But that word was absent from the Greek text, and it is the Greek that was inspired, not the KJV.

Had they simply left well enough alone, it might have been better. And had they used the word "language" rather than "tongue" the whole modern controversy would not exist. Modern tongues are not known human languages.

Paul was converted about 36AD and wrote 1 Corinthians about 56AD if after praying in tongues for 20 years he still did not know what he was saying it was not likely that it was a known tongue. Someone hearing him in all that time had not identified it or translated words so that he knew what he was saying. (if your theory was correct that would have been the case)

 

[garee]

The Jews of Jesus' day did indeed refuse to hear. However, Christians in 2020 are not Jews in AD 30-odd. Don't confuse the two.

its not about Jew but is about unbelief, no faith coming from hearing God in all of mankind .The kind that does not believe any language of any nation. Don't confuse the two. Its not Jesus picking on the Jews. But like in Jerimiah those who certainly will do whosoever there own mouth says .They stop up their ears refusing to hear .

 

[Washed]

Paul was converted about 36AD and wrote 1 Corinthians about 56AD if after praying in tongues for 20 years he still did not know what he was saying it was not likely that it was a known tongue. Someone hearing him in all that time had not identified it or translated words so that he knew what he was saying. (if your theory was correct that would have been the case)

They do not know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is, and it seems they do not want to know what it is. They're happier just denying it. It's easier.

 

[garee]

Paul was converted about 36AD and wrote 1 Corinthians about 56AD if after praying in tongues for 20 years he still did not know what he was saying it was not likely that it was a known tongue. Someone hearing him in all that time had not identified it or translated words so that he knew what he was saying. (if your theory was correct that would have been the case)

David prayer prophecy the tongue God of all his life. (the Lord is my Sheppard etc) He knew what the Holy Spirit was saying when moved the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in him.

 

[garee]

They do not know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is, and it seems they do not want to know what it is. They're happier just denying it. It's easier.

It would be much easier if they knew what the Holy Spirit was saying. It takes all the wondering. marveling and guess work out of it. Called truth .Prophecy the tongue of God sets a person free from the unknown .I did it.

 

[Dino246]

its not about Jew but is about unbelief, no faith coming from hearing God in all of mankind .The kind that does not believe any language of any nation. Don't confuse the two. Its not Jesus picking on the Jews. But like in Jerimiah those who certainly will do whosoever there own mouth says .They stop up their ears refusing to hear .

Don't repeat my words back to me, please. It's something a snotty child would do because he lacks the intelligence to articulate an original response.

You are mixing up verses directed at unbelieving Jews with verses directed to Christians. Christians don't lack faith.

Jesus was indeed "picking" on the unbelieving Jews... the scribes and Pharisees who claimed to know the Scriptures but couldn't see the truth when it stood in front of them.

 

[Scribe]

They do not know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is, and it seems they do not want to know what it is. They're happier just denying it. It's easier.

I have learned in 40 years of observation and conversations with many people on this subject that fear of what people would think about them if they were to operate in the gifts of the spirit is such an embarrassing concept to them that they find it easier to construct their own hermeneutics to explain away these "embarrassing passages of scripture" so that they do not have to feel uncomfortable about their unwillingness to be a "fool" for Christ.

This is usually at the heart of the issue. But not always. When the interpretations get weird, it is usually a sign of an intellectually dishonest heart that is covering up the real reason of not accepting these scriptures as they are written, and that is of course because of their embarrassment and pride.

Now here is the the irony of all this. When they construct bizarre interpretations (that even their most famous and respected cessationist scholars never attempted and would not agree with if they heard them) these invented bizarre interpretations make them look much more the fool and the wierdo than speaking in tongues ever would have.

Their fear of accepting the "weird" spiritual gifts of tongues and interpretations, or words of knowledge, words of wisdom, laying of of hands for healing, prophesy, casting out demons and being labeled "one of them crazy pentecostals" has caused them to create "excuse" interpretations that are so bizarre that normal people think they are "mentally ill" for inventing such interpretations. They have become weirdos in their attempt to escape being labeled a weirdo.

 

[Washed]

It would be much easier if they knew what the Holy Spirit was saying. It takes all the wondering. marveling and guess work out of it. Called truth .Prophecy the tongue of God sets a person free from the unknown .I did it.

I will no longer be responding to you, garee. Good luck with whatever it is you believe.

 

[Dino246]

The evidence is in the context of the parable .Completing the circuit of circular reasoning.

What parable? We weren't discussion a parable.

Please, stop making reference to circular reasoning. You don't understand it, and you refuse to learn.

 

[biker]

1Co 13:1 (KJV) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

So your saying that the tongue of angels is just another earthly language?

From the Greek:
Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων λαλῶ καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, γέγονα χαλκὸς ἠχῶν ἢ κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον.

1 If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal.

and of the messengers, would appear to be meaning Angels, since men is listed alongside.

 

[Nehemiah6]

They do not know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is, and it seems they do not want to know what it is.

Actually modern tongues have been closely examined by many and they know that they are not human languages. Here us some evidence:

• Modern anthropologists have for many years studied the modern tongues phenomena and found it present in many different religions and cultures around the world. They found that not only do some Christians practice modern tongues, so do cults, churches and groups teaching false doctrine and many pagan religions. Dr. Shelia A. Womack, found similarities between that modern speaking in tongues, [and] the Tourette Syndrome. The Trouette syndrome (TS) is an inherited disorder of the nervous system, characterized by a variable expression of unwanted movements and noises. 1
  These anthropologists and linguists have recorded and studied extensively modern tongue speaking. They report that not once have they found that what the tongues speaker was speaking was any language. They further have found the phenomena is the same in all the groups, Christians, and non Christians alike. Certainly, a Christian would have to admit that God would not be giving the gift of tongues to unbelievers and pagans. What these researched heard and identified was simply vowels spoken without relation to an actual word. It is gibberish sounds similar to what children make before the learn to speak a language. Their conclusion is that it appears to be psychologically induced phenomena and quark of the mind.
  Linguists Eugene A. Nida, in the 1960's in his studies provided detailed reasons why modern glossolalia could not be a human language. Further W. A. Wolfram in his studies concluded in 1966 that glossolalia did not have the basic elements of human language. 2
  Felicitas D. Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, engaged in a study of various English, Spanish, and Mayan speaking Pentecostal communities in the United States and Mexico made the following observations,
  • " She compared tape recordings of non-Christian rituals from Africa, Borneo, Indonesia and Japan as well. She published her results in 1972 in an extensive monograph (Speaking in Tongues: A Cross-Cultural Study in Glossolalia by Felecitas D. Goodman, University of Chicago Press, 1972).
    Goodman concludes that "when all features of glossolalia were taken into consideration-- that is, the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and its suprasegmental elements (namely, rhythm, accent, and especially overall intonation)-- she concluded that there is no distinction in glossolalia between Christians and the followers of non-Christian (pagan) religions. The "association between trance and glossolalia is now accepted by many researchers as a correct assumption," writes Goodman in the prestigious Encyclopedia of Religion (1987).
    Goodman also concludes that glossolalia "is, actually, a learned behavior, learned either unawarely or, sometimes consciously." Others have previously pointed out that direct instruction is given on how to "speak in tongues," ie. how to engage in glossolalia." 3
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  • https://www.bible-truth.org/TonguesWhatisGoingOn.html
    
    

 

[Truth7t7]

If you don’t realize that you are the woman and Christ is the husband then you’re in pretty bad shape spiritually. That’s one of the most basic tenants of Christianity.

But I think I get it. The verses I brought up were written in tongues and yet don’t speak in tongues yet.

First get that heart circumcised so you can understand the KJV, then you can speak in tongues too. Hurry before it’s too late, things are about to go DRASTICALLY bad in this world.

I received the gift of speaking in tongues 43 years ago, it's verbal that comes from my human tongue and mouth, your claim this represents the KJV bible is another false claim

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

OP

King James cultist accuses The Holy Spirit of sowing division in the church.

The KJV translators believed they were doing a service to the reader by adding "unknown" to tongues. "Unlearned" would have been more appropriate. But that word was absent from the Greek text, and it is the Greek that was inspired, not the KJV.

Had they simply left well enough alone, it might have been better. And had they used the word "language" rather than "tongue" the whole modern controversy would not exist. Modern tongues are not known human languages.

"If I speak in the tongues of men OR ANGELS".............

What well known apostle said THAT? Eh?
The same one that instructed you NOT to forbid speaking in tongues.

Not all tongues are known human languages. Not in Paul's lifetime. Not all tongues are meant to be explicitly interpreted.
There are no grounds for this "modern" label you keep using. "modern tongues"
If you don't want spiritual gifts that's your choice. Trying to deny the rest of the church their relationship with him is just wrong.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Yes, I know it is Page. But I felt bad to make 2 corrections there.

It's ok. It made for an unexpected diversion. I prefer Steve Howe anyway

 

[garee]

Don't repeat my words back to me, please. It's something a snotty child would do because he lacks the intelligence to articulate an original response.

You are mixing up verses directed at unbelieving Jews with verses directed to Christians. Christians don't lack faith.

Jesus was indeed "picking" on the unbelieving Jews... the scribes and Pharisees who claimed to know the Scriptures but couldn't see the truth when it stood in front of them.

The Spirit of Christ was not "picking" on the unbelieving Jews anymore than the unbelieving gentile but speaks to the whole of mankind. God is no respecter of corrupted flesh . No division .

Exactly Christians do not lack faith .Its those who do not beleive prophecy in any language. Not all Jews are atheist's

 

[KJV1611]

From the Greek:
Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων λαλῶ καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, γέγονα χαλκὸς ἠχῶν ἢ κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον.

1 If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal.

and of the messengers, would appear to be meaning Angels, since men is listed alongside.

I agree, Of men AND of angels puts tongues as the language of the angels.

 

[KJV1611]

I received the gift of speaking in tongues 43 years ago, it's verbal that comes from my human tongue and mouth, your claim this represents the KJV bible is another false claim

I’m not claiming that tongues represents the KJV, I’m claiming that the KJV is written in the tongue of angels - the unknown tongue.