Not By Works
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Here is exactly what you said: "Outside of OSAS you can do NOTHING for Jesus ... you are still trying to keep/maintain salvation.... Jesus does not like that btw."
Had you worded this differently that would have been fine. But to say that "you can do NOTHING for Jesus" is indeed a warped view of salvation.
There are two separate issues which are being unnecessarily mixed up: (1) service to Christ after salvation (which is doing SOMETHING for Jesus) and (2) trying to maintain our salvation (presumably through good works), which is not possible since we are "kept by the power of God", and are eternally secure in Christ. Christians are appointed unto good works because they are saved by grace.
The best way to show that Christians are indeed REQUIRED to do something for Jesus is to examine the Parable of the Talents (see also Luke 19:12-26 where the Lord appoints His faithful servants to be rulers over cities in His coming Kingdom).
MATTHEW 25: SERVICE FOR CHRIST IS A NECESSITY
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, therethou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Had you worded this differently that would have been fine. But to say that "you can do NOTHING for Jesus" is indeed a warped view of salvation.
There are two separate issues which are being unnecessarily mixed up: (1) service to Christ after salvation (which is doing SOMETHING for Jesus) and (2) trying to maintain our salvation (presumably through good works), which is not possible since we are "kept by the power of God", and are eternally secure in Christ. Christians are appointed unto good works because they are saved by grace.
The best way to show that Christians are indeed REQUIRED to do something for Jesus is to examine the Parable of the Talents (see also Luke 19:12-26 where the Lord appoints His faithful servants to be rulers over cities in His coming Kingdom).
MATTHEW 25: SERVICE FOR CHRIST IS A NECESSITY
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, therethou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Okay look, @dcontroversal and @EleventhHour - Yes, it is true that God has raised up teachers BUT, we cannot know if what they or anyone says is TRUE, UNLESS the Holy Spirit bears witness that what they are saying is TRUE. All true knowledge and understanding of the scriptures DEPENDS on the HOLY SPIRIT ALONE.
The flesh of man will trust in his own intellect to find Truth - this is prideful and foolish and any knowledge gained will only puff up the person and make them even more prideful. This type of person has eyes but, sees not and ears but, hears not. This type of person boasts in their years of seminary, diligent study of God's Word, that they speak Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, that they have written thousands of commentaries yet, they were only a hamster on a wheel going nowhere.
However, when a believer learns to depend ONLY on the HOLY SPIRIT for TRUE knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, the Word becomes living - The Word and The Spirit together give LIFE to the hearer. The hearer does NOT become prideful and puffed up, instead the hearer becomes so humbled and thankful and delights immensely in The Truth. They may still go to seminary, write commentaries, speak Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic but, they rarely mention those things....instead they speak of how fascinating and life giving the scriptures are when the Holy Spirit illuminates them......then, we have eyes to see and ears to hear what the SPIRIT is saying.
As I mentioned in a prior post, I DO enjoy listening to preachers and sermons BUT, EVERYTHING I hear is filtered through The Holy Spirit and God's Word.
Lately, I've enjoyed watching "encountertv," I also enjoy Charles Stanley, Tony Evans, Joyce Meyer - no body has it all correct but, I enjoy listening. Mostly, I just listen to the audio bible.
God bless you both! Sorry for my late reply.
The flesh of man will trust in his own intellect to find Truth - this is prideful and foolish and any knowledge gained will only puff up the person and make them even more prideful. This type of person has eyes but, sees not and ears but, hears not. This type of person boasts in their years of seminary, diligent study of God's Word, that they speak Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, that they have written thousands of commentaries yet, they were only a hamster on a wheel going nowhere.
However, when a believer learns to depend ONLY on the HOLY SPIRIT for TRUE knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, the Word becomes living - The Word and The Spirit together give LIFE to the hearer. The hearer does NOT become prideful and puffed up, instead the hearer becomes so humbled and thankful and delights immensely in The Truth. They may still go to seminary, write commentaries, speak Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic but, they rarely mention those things....instead they speak of how fascinating and life giving the scriptures are when the Holy Spirit illuminates them......then, we have eyes to see and ears to hear what the SPIRIT is saying.
As I mentioned in a prior post, I DO enjoy listening to preachers and sermons BUT, EVERYTHING I hear is filtered through The Holy Spirit and God's Word.
Lately, I've enjoyed watching "encountertv," I also enjoy Charles Stanley, Tony Evans, Joyce Meyer - no body has it all correct but, I enjoy listening. Mostly, I just listen to the audio bible.
God bless you both! Sorry for my late reply.
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Jesus didn’t say the reason the faith withered was because they weren’t “true plants.” You won’t like the reason though. It’s because of the KIND of person they made themselves to be. The ground is the person, their character and choices. No where does Jesus say he is responsible for the good ground being so.
The Father gave him Judas and he lost him but for a reason. Perhaps he loses others for good reason as well.
The Bible says he lost one. You’d have a hard time with that one since you believe it’s Jesus’ responsibility to do everything do you and you cannot fail as a result. I know that I have to do my part as outlined in the Bible and while He won’t fail in His part, He isn’t doing both parts. So I can read all of the Bible. You need to skip or rewrite bits like his one. Jesus lost one at least not through anything He did wrong.
Now I notice your beloved OSASers not bearing good fruit AT ALL. They jeer and laugh and mock others. So from your definition we can say they aren’t saved cause there is bad fruit right? I mean no OSAS is going to admit this but it is logical.
Your position is this:
1. true OSAS believers will bear fruit
2. lack of fruit means nothing because good fruit is not connected with being a true believer because of Once Saved Always Saved fruit or no fruit
So on one side you’ll say your team WILL bear good fruit but if not, they’re still saved because good fruit is works and works don’t affect salvation.
I understand OSAS a lot better than you do.
The Father gave him Judas and he lost him but for a reason. Perhaps he loses others for good reason as well.
The Bible says he lost one. You’d have a hard time with that one since you believe it’s Jesus’ responsibility to do everything do you and you cannot fail as a result. I know that I have to do my part as outlined in the Bible and while He won’t fail in His part, He isn’t doing both parts. So I can read all of the Bible. You need to skip or rewrite bits like his one. Jesus lost one at least not through anything He did wrong.
Now I notice your beloved OSASers not bearing good fruit AT ALL. They jeer and laugh and mock others. So from your definition we can say they aren’t saved cause there is bad fruit right? I mean no OSAS is going to admit this but it is logical.
Your position is this:
1. true OSAS believers will bear fruit
2. lack of fruit means nothing because good fruit is not connected with being a true believer because of Once Saved Always Saved fruit or no fruit
So on one side you’ll say your team WILL bear good fruit but if not, they’re still saved because good fruit is works and works don’t affect salvation.
I understand OSAS a lot better than you do.
I have never for one second been insecure in my salvation. Not once. I have the unusual blessing of knowing God saved me having me live the good news without anyone telling me. No man told me the Gospel save Jesus. That’s a powerful beginning. Some of you don’t believe Jesus can do that. They limit him.
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