Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Wansvic]

The phrase in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit was instituted by Jesus.
It was used before 325AD as I have already shown, first in a quote from a 1st century document, then in a 2nd century document.
Do you want more?

Jesus said to baptize in the "name," not to use a phrase. The other info you provided came from outside of the inspired word of God.

As provided previously the word states that in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily. (Col 2:9) After that statement in verse 9 of Colossions, the scripture goes on to speak of water baptism in verse 12:

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:10-12

 

[Dan_473]

God is specific concerning His instructions throughout the word.

but just like with slavery, though, don't we use a nice, open interpretation of the entire Bible?

 

[jaybo]

no, my point is that people who say they use scripture only almost always use tradition to say what is scripture and what is not.

So what is the right way to determine what is actually scripture?

 

[Bede]

Jesus said to baptize in the "name," not to use a phrase. The other info you provided came from outside of the inspired word of God.

As provided previously the word states that in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily. (Col 2:9) After that statement in verse 9 of Colossions, the scripture goes on to speak of water baptism in verse 12:

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:10-12

Jesus said to the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mt 28:19)
That is a very specific command.
Do you think Jesus made a mistake?

The "other info" I supplied shows that the baptismal formula in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit predates 325AD by several centuries

 

[Wansvic]

yes, I think that's a good way to interpret those passages,
looking at the general ideas being presented.

probably then a good idea to use that same approach to the entire Bible.

Differing weights and differing measures-- the LORD detests them both.
https://biblehub.com/proverbs/20-10.htm

2 Corinthians 3 "Such confidence we have through Christ toward God; 5 not that we are sufficient of ourselves, to account anything as from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God; 6 who also made us sufficient as servants of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the Spirit.

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

I believe the scripture you quote concerns the letter of the law. The instructions provided to those wishing to be a part of the NT church (Acts 2:38) have nothing to do with the OT law.

Just prior to His ascension, Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name beginning in Jerusalem. He told the apostles to wait until they were endued with power. Notice that exactly what Jesus said came to pass on the Day of Pentecost when Peter gave everyone the instructions to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. These instructions required everyone's obedience. God would handle infilling the people with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

After the Jews were given these instructions we see compliance to the same message by the Gentiles and Samaritans. This requirement never stopped. Significant?

 

[jaybo]

On the island of Patmos.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is still the last chapter in the book of the law the Bible

What is "the last chapter in the book of the law the Bible"? 1) The last chapter of the Bible is Revelation 22:21 2) Revelation is part of the New Testament; it is not in "the book of the law the Bible".

 

[jaybo]

but just like with slavery, though, don't we use a nice, open interpretation of the entire Bible?

What are you trying to say??

 

[Dan_473]

So what is the right way to determine what is actually scripture?

great question!
I don't think the Bible says.

it's fine to use tradition, imo.
it can be ancient tradition, like the council of Carthage,

or modern tradition like,
"this is the Bible my church uses".

or, if not tradition, personal revelation like,
"God told me to use this Bible".

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus said to the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mt 28:19)
That is a very specific command.
Do you think Jesus made a mistake?

The "other info" I supplied shows that the baptismal formula in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit predates 325AD by several centuries

I am not saying Jesus made a mistake. Jesus said to baptize in a singular NAME... Furthermore, prior to His ascension He told the apostles that repentance and remission of sin (see Mark 1:4, Luke 1:77, 3:3, Acts 2:38, 10:43) would be done in HIS NAME beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Do you believe the apostles neglected to do what Jesus told them to do?

Peter instructed everyone to be baptized as Jesus said, "in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin..." Acts 2:38
Philip baptized the Samaritans in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16
Peter baptized the Gentiles in the name of the Lord. Acts 10:48
Paul baptized the Ephesus disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:5
Ananias told Paul to arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

Please provide a scripture where water baptism was administered using a phrase.

 

[Jackson123]

Do you mean there is no Christian tradition outside of the Bible?

You mean like pray to Mary? I don't think so

 

[Jackson123]

No, I'm saying your idea is weird.

It not my idea, it jesus idea, please read john 5 100 more time.

 

[garee]

There is true apostolic instruction. (tradition) But beware of uninspired tradition of men. There is always a counterfeit of Godly truth.

All traditions of corrupted men are uninspired from above but earthly after the spirit of error.

Apostolic instruction is a new innovation that came by the Catholic fathers, found in their book of the law CCC .

Apostolic instruction or Apostolic time period. Both destroy the one meaning of the word apostle ."Sent ones. Abel is the first recorded prophet as a apostle, first martyr also listed. Trying to create venerable men that lord it over the faith of pew sitters is another gospel, coming from another authority (CCC)

 

[garee]

What is deceptive about it?

Redefining the word apostle and giving it another meaning other that "sent one". a false meaning that they think gives authority to them and not the word they are sent with . The first apostle was Abel, first recorded martyr also. Catholisicim invents their own meaning to words. As in plagiarism .I violation of the first commandment.

 

[garee]

What is "the last chapter in the book of the law the Bible"? 1) The last chapter of the Bible is Revelation 22:21 2) Revelation is part of the New Testament; it is not in "the book of the law the Bible".

The whole Bible is the book of God's law. called the gospel There are no philosophical opinions in it. The book of prophecy the law of God . Not just good theories

It called the law and the prophets. the prophets like Jesus the apostle that were move to reveal the will of God unseen the letter of the law death

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Still the last chapter .

 

[Dino246]

Redefining the word apostle and giving it another meaning other that "sent one". a false meaning that they think gives authority to them and not the word they are sent with . The first apostle was Abel, first recorded martyr also. Catholisicim invents their own meaning to words. As in plagiarism .I violation of the first commandment.

You still haven't looked up the meaning of "plagiarism" and are employing it incorrectly.

It's sad that you criticize others for making up meanings of words, when you do exactly the same thing.

 

[garee]

You still haven't looked up the meaning of "plagiarism" and are employing it incorrectly.

It's sad that you criticize others for making up meanings of words, when you do exactly the same thing.

"plagiarism" the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own:

Change the meaning of one word die, or apostle, or prophet. Therefore change the commandment and violate the warning Deuteronomy4:2

But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye "die". And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Genesis 3: 3-4

Plagiarism definition

, an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne.

 

[Dino246]

Change the meaning of one word die, or apostle, or prophet. Therefore change the commandment and violate the warning Deuteronomy4:2

Why do you include this? It has nothing to do with plagiarism.

 

[Bede]

All traditions of corrupted men are uninspired from above but earthly after the spirit of error.

Apostolic instruction is a new innovation that came by the Catholic fathers, found in their book of the law CCC .

Apostolic instruction or Apostolic time period. Both destroy the one meaning of the word apostle ."Sent ones. Abel is the first recorded prophet as a apostle, first martyr also listed. Trying to create venerable men that lord it over the faith of pew sitters is another gospel, coming from another authority (CCC)

Jesus chose a special group whom he called apostles and commissioned them.

And when it was day, he called his disciples, and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles; (Lk 6:13)

The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb′edee, and John his brother; (Mt 10:12)

In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. (Acts 1-2)

There is nothing invented. The apostolic age just means the time until the last apostle died. Then public revelation ceased.

 

[Bede]

I am not saying Jesus made a mistake. Jesus said to baptize in a singular NAME...

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19)
That is what Jesus instructed the apostles to do.

Furthermore, prior to His ascension He told the apostles that repentance and remission of sin (see Mark 1:4, Luke 1:77, 3:3, Acts 2:38, 10:43) would be done in HIS NAME beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Lk 24: 47 "and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem."
Preaching would be done in his name - i.e. with his authority. That's not baptism

Do you believe the apostles neglected to do what Jesus told them to do?

Peter instructed everyone to be baptized as Jesus said, "in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin..." Acts 2:38
Philip baptized the Samaritans in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16
Peter baptized the Gentiles in the name of the Lord. Acts 10:48
Paul baptized the Ephesus disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:5
Ananias told Paul to arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

I've already answered these (post #2503 & 2506). Just repeating your errors doesn't make them true.

Please provide a scripture where water baptism was administered using a phrase.

There are no examples in scripture of an actual baptism being performed and the words used in it. Therefore we can only go by what Jesus instructed - baptising in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
The evidence of historical documents show that was how people were baptised.

 

[Wansvic]

well, that's one way to interpret what I wrote.

I think I said something like, let the reader decide...

I apologize. My response was due to the content of your post being a historical fact, not fiction.