Let's Talk About Sin

[Hungry]

Nope. I did not say that at all. I said... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Didn’t you already do this thread?

 

[Hungry]

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you

Matthew tells us Jesus shall save his people from their sins. The problem I have had with this begins in Romans where it states we don't have sin anymore and yet everyone seems to agree that we all fall short. Today I woke with an idea of starting at the beginning which is where any good building starts when we need to have a solid foundation. So let's consider Adam and Eve who were created to have the spirit of God. A dog was created to function without the spirit of God and so dogs are normal in the way they function. But humans are missing something and therefore not complete if we do not function with the spirit of God. It would be considered broken if it were a car that was missing a part because it would be incomplete since it would be missing a necessary part. It had to be the spirit that Adam and Eve gave up that caused them to be broken, to have missed the mark, and to deliberately do such a thing was considered sin. Well, we know it was not an apple.

If I'm correct on how I'm looking at this then it makes sense that blasphemy against God would be an unforgivable sin because to do so would be to keep ourselves broken and therefore unable to have the spirit of life. Matthew states Jesus had the ability to forgive sins. In John we see "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." We will continue to stay broken if we refuse the spirit and this is why Jesus told them they will die in their sins because they cannot go where he is going to go. The Lord said "If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." In other words, if we did not know we were broken. Then we did not know we were missing a part and so it's not our fault. But if we say yeah, we know we are not broken. Then there lies the acknowledged sin.

This reminds me of 1 John where it is written if we acknowledge or confess our sin is one thing. But we lie if we say we don't have any sin. It seems to be the same concept in both John and 1 John. I'm just looking at the way sin is used in the gospels and in doing so it seems clear that Jesus had the ability to forgive sin. We still have sin if we don't get this forgiveness from him and that's what is being said in Matthew and John. And if we don't know we have sin because we are challenged to the degree of being impaired, disabled or blind to it in some way is how we would be exempt from it. Understand?

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." Romans begins with Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

I would like to help you save some of your precious time. People know they aren’t supposed to sin. Many don’t want to sin. They just haven’t figured out how not to. I guarantee those who have mastered the flesh, perhaps like yourself, didn’t do it by reading a couple of verses. Self control isn’t miraculously bestowed the instant one surrenders their life to Christ. It is by choosing everyday to walk in the light. Most people have spent a lifetime in the dark. Sometimes the light hurts their eyes and there is an adjustment period. I have been on Christian Chat for a while now and have seen many posts like yours. Not once have I seen a responder stating, “Thanks, I had no idea. Now I can live a life pleasing to our Lord.” Are you a preacher or minister? Christ didn’t convert anyone by walking around telling people to behave and demonstrate how much better He was than others. He healed, and fed. He often waited to be asked a question before giving advice. Instead of commanding, He instructed, “Follow Me!” The letters that became much of our NT were written from the apostles to the churches they started. There were relationships already formed. Nobody responds well to holier than thou tactics. There’s no relatability. If you really desire to help God’s people to walk in the Spirit and put on Christ then share your journey. Be real, not really superior.

 

[oyster67]

What does this sentence mean?
Are you trying to justify yourself to the Lord?

Justification is a word that is used to describe being covered by the blood of Jesus. When we are cleansed by the Atonement, when we are born again, The Father sees us through the blood of His dear Son. A good way to remember the concept and word is to think how the Heavenly Father sees us as "Just-as-if-I-had-never" sinned. Nothing controversial about this concept as far as I know.

No I am not.

Godspeed.

 

[oyster67]

When we have achieved absolute perfection we will likely be taken up in a whirlwind or chariot of fire. Until then, we will need to plead the Blood of Jesus.

 

[DorothyMae]

The essence of sin, at least in this context, is rebellion against God. We fall short of perfection every day, but we do not live in a state of willful rebellion against God. Humbleness and repentance is still required. God looks for justification, not perfection.

Some actually do live in that state. God stills looks for the person whose heart “is complete ly His.” God’s part in justification is complete. He’s looking for those who will take it and seek to walk with Him.

 

[Jimbone]

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you

Matthew tells us Jesus shall save his people from their sins. The problem I have had with this begins in Romans where it states we don't have sin anymore and yet everyone seems to agree that we all fall short. Today I woke with an idea of starting at the beginning which is where any good building starts when we need to have a solid foundation. So let's consider Adam and Eve who were created to have the spirit of God. A dog was created to function without the spirit of God and so dogs are normal in the way they function. But humans are missing something and therefore not complete if we do not function with the spirit of God. It would be considered broken if it were a car that was missing a part because it would be incomplete since it would be missing a necessary part. It had to be the spirit that Adam and Eve gave up that caused them to be broken, to have missed the mark, and to deliberately do such a thing was considered sin. Well, we know it was not an apple.

If I'm correct on how I'm looking at this then it makes sense that blasphemy against God would be an unforgivable sin because to do so would be to keep ourselves broken and therefore unable to have the spirit of life. Matthew states Jesus had the ability to forgive sins. In John we see "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." We will continue to stay broken if we refuse the spirit and this is why Jesus told them they will die in their sins because they cannot go where he is going to go. The Lord said "If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." In other words, if we did not know we were broken. Then we did not know we were missing a part and so it's not our fault. But if we say yeah, we know we are not broken. Then there lies the acknowledged sin.

This reminds me of 1 John where it is written if we acknowledge or confess our sin is one thing. But we lie if we say we don't have any sin. It seems to be the same concept in both John and 1 John. I'm just looking at the way sin is used in the gospels and in doing so it seems clear that Jesus had the ability to forgive sin. We still have sin if we don't get this forgiveness from him and that's what is being said in Matthew and John. And if we don't know we have sin because we are challenged to the degree of being impaired, disabled or blind to it in some way is how we would be exempt from it. Understand?

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." Romans begins with Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Very well thought out and written comment, Thank you brother. Also awesome topic.

I am kind of long winded (long lettered in text?), but I wanted to break down what you're saying as simple as I can, and is what came to me while reading this. The law is like a map, you can see it clearly, it makes sense the things are labeled and everything, you have the "idea" of how it works well, but no one knows exactly where this place is. They can wonder around and try to match it with the landscapes they visit, but in truth they can never find exactly where it is, without a guide. Then Jesus (insert whole gospel understanding here) and now we have the guide to the map. By His grace and sacrifice, we now have a guide to how we read the "map", the law in truth. We sometimes stray, but when we do His Spirit now lets us know. The broken part in us you mention at the beginning, that I would call the spiritual disconnection from God, through Jesus can now be repaired, by His grace made whole, transformed from the inside out to now DESIRE to please our God. Man I love speaking about His power, He is POWERFUL He is KING. Holla-Boo-Ya!!!!!!!!!

So now we see the law in truth, we also are reconnected to our Creator spiritually to guide us when we stray too far, and I testify that it HURTS so bad when we are shown that we are sinning against the One who is Good. I have to add that the bigger the mistake I've made since being born again, the more it hurts, but the more I grow from it. He is GOOD!!!!!!

 

[DorothyMae]

I would like to help you save some of your precious time. People know they aren’t supposed to sin. Many don’t want to sin. They just haven’t figured out how not to. I guarantee those who have mastered the flesh, perhaps like yourself, didn’t do it by reading a couple of verses. Self control isn’t miraculously bestowed the instant one surrenders their life to Christ. It is by choosing everyday to walk in the light. Most people have spent a lifetime in the dark. Sometimes the light hurts their eyes and there is an adjustment period. I have been on Christian Chat for a while now and have seen many posts like yours. Not once have I seen a responder stating, “Thanks, I had no idea. Now I can live a life pleasing to our Lord.” Are you a preacher or minister? Christ didn’t convert anyone by walking around telling people to behave and demonstrate how much better He was than others. He healed, and fed. He often waited to be asked a question before giving advice. Instead of commanding, He instructed, “Follow Me!” The letters that became much of our NT were written from the apostles to the churches they started. There were relationships already formed. Nobody responds well to holier than thou tactics. There’s no relatability. If you really desire to help God’s people to walk in the Spirit and put on Christ then share your journey. Be real, not really superior.

I am very confident everyone who does sin wants to do it at the moment of choice. No one does what they hate. Talk is cheap.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are not on the same page. I'm not looking at how to please God. I'm writing about what God did to us that is in Christ.

He saved us. He took the penalty of sin and nailed it to the cross

Sin - to miss the mark.

If you say you do not
Miss the mark. You deceive yourself and their is no truth in you

 

[tourist]

Nope. I did not say that at all. I said... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But one cannot teach a subject that they themselves do so again I ask you do you sin?

I would not hold your breath waiting for him to answer a simple basic question that is essential to what he is espousing.

 

[tourist]

I am very confident everyone who does sin wants to do it at the moment of choice. No one does what they hate. Talk is cheap.

Paul stated that he does indeed do what he hates. I believe that Paul might have been struggling with a sin problem and this is what he prayed to God 3 times to be delivered from the thorn in his flesh. Regardless of what the thorn actually was referring to God's response was that His grace was sufficient for him.

Romans 7:14-15
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Let's don't talk about sin.

Yes. Christians should simply focus on righteousness.

1. When God justifies us by His grace, He declares us to be righteous.
2. When the Holy Spirit sanctifies us by His power, He makes us righteous.
3. When Christ perfects us by His presence, He makes us perfect at His coming.

Sanctification is where we walk in the Spirit and mortify the flesh. At the same time we need to examine ourselves to see if there is any present sin and deal with it. No Christian is sinlessly perfect, hence the exhortations of the first epistle of John.

 

[biker]

Nope. I did not say that at all. I said... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You are indeed a "broken record" stuck on how Righteous you think you are. And I completely understand by all definitions to what Paul has claimed, the outcome should conclude to Believers being sinless. But even if you are truly saved, you are still human. Your Reasoning is as sound as a student who just learned Elementary Mathematics and claim they understand finite Quantum Physics, which consists of a correlation of Calculus, some formations of Trigonometry, and basic Geometry.

If you have offended a single person after being Saved, You have sinned grievously!

If you have had sexual thoughts about any woman after being saved, You have Fornicated!

If you have ever claimed You have not sinned since being Saved, YOU LIED!

You need to get a grip on Reality because Reality has no awareness within You!

 

[biker]

Closer to the first one. "God remembering our sins no more, do you think that this truth is about justification..."

Your sentence is clearly "Past Tense."

What about future sins?

 

[tourist]

Yes. Christians should simply focus on righteousness.

1. When God justifies us by His grace, He declares us to be righteous.
2. When the Holy Spirit sanctifies us by His power, He makes us righteous.
3. When Christ perfects us by His presence, He makes us perfect at His coming.

Sanctification is where we walk in the Spirit and mortify the flesh. At the same time we need to examine ourselves to see if there is any present sin and deal with it. No Christian is sinlessly perfect, hence the exhortations of the first epistle of John.

Christians that simply focus on righteousness would not provide the occasion to be tempted to sin. Your analysis is right on target. Why talk about sin? I would surmise that most people know what sin is but perhaps the knowledge or righteousness is lacking.

 

[tourist]

Nope. I did not say that at all. I said... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Let's talk about sin.

 

[oldethennew]

we must agree,
after conversion, after our Saviour puts our past behavior in our faces and expects us to 'over-come' them
because of Him 'forgiving us, we, in our great gratitude want NOTHING MORE that to 'put our 'old-man'
in the grave, and we do, do this, one step at a time, over what ever time it takes us - and so, we see
ourselves and assess our selves and know just what our next challenge will be for us to 'over-come' -
it just keeps 'building' from one place to another, thus our RACE becomes less and less of a burden,
until, as our dear Brother Paul has shared with us in such an intimate way, that he knew that
his race has been WON...

a real/true Christian 'wins' all of their battles, for Christ always helps them to 'over-come',
day by day...

 

[tourist]

I think, with everything you said, Christians should realize they no longer have a proclivity to sin. They don’t have to sin, as if it isn’t a choice. They choose to sin and God works on the heart and sanctifies us. We open our hearts to the Lord, and He can show us why we do what we do and why we feel the way we do.

You articulated in a short paragraph the premise of the OP. Short, concise and on point. Brevity often leads to clarity.

 

[Chester]

Nope. I did not say that at all. I said... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Not sure what you think this text means: it is a present tense in the Greek, so it comes out something like this: the one who has been born out of God does not keep on (practice) sinning, for the seed of God keeps on remaining in him, and he cannot keep on practicing sin, because he has been born out of God.

But I do not think John means that it is OK and normal and right for the Christian to just commit a few sins as long as you do not make a practice of sinning. That would go against the whole spirit of the book of I John. I think that what he is trying to say is that sin in incompatible and incongruent with who a Christian (with a new nature) is a child of God.

So if you asked John: Do you sin? or will you sin in the next week? -- I think he would answer something like this: "I am not planning to sin . . ."

 

[jackrosie]

If our sins are forgiven when we are saved...........we sin in the flesh?....after we are saved is that correct?
We don’t sin in the Spirit because we have been cleansed from sin....we have a new heart.

 

[Blain]

I would not hold your breath waiting for him to answer a simple basic question that is essential to what he is espousing.

Yeah I figured he would not reply because he can't and he knows it. But I still thought I would try, I want to at least see if he can be reasoned with but I would also be interested in how he would respond.
I suppose I am guilty of being a bit curious XD